Subwoofer to suit current amp

[-ToM-]

Currently in my car i have.

Soundstream Lil Wonder III LW2.260
RMS Power @ 4? Bridged, 14.4V 1 x 260w RMS

and a Pioneer TS-W305C 12" sub.

Now apparently its rated at 800w peak / 400w nominal (not sure if thats RMS) Single voice coil that was made way back in 2004/2005.

I put my brothers 2008 1200w/350w DVC JVC sub in, and it packed a lot better punch.

I couldnt work out why, but all i know is that the pioneer has to go!

Now, im after a good value sub to replace the pioneer, preferable around 200-250w RMS, but will pack a better punch then the pioneer.

Any ideas/suggestions?

[SPLcamry]

Well if that is the amp you have then you carn't go past 2 12" kicker comps, they are 150rms each so that would be 300rms.

But i know for a fact that Soundstream under rates there amp so the amp you got will easily push 300rms. The kicker's are great vaule for bass. I also have 2 of those JVC subs. Even if you buy his of him. But i would reconmend kicker due to it being bass for buck.


But what ever you do don't buy sony,clarion,fusion,kenwood. as they make really crap subs. I know i am going to get flammed about this but it's true so deal with it.

[-ToM-]

Hey thanks for the reply.

Im not sure if its true about soundstream underrating, but it says 260w bridged, or 2x130w in 2 channel.

Id prefer to go a good single 12" over the 2 less power subs, mainly due to my boot setup which is designed for a bit of show, and some space saving.

Im after something i can swap out with the current sub straight into the existing box.

pics:





Those pics are with the old amp, not the new one

[SPLcamry]

What i mean by soundstream underating there amps, Is that when they say 260rms on the box it really means the amp has 300rms. So that's a good thing.

Well then if you want a good single sub then you carn't go past a alpine 12" type S.


But don't expect to much from a crappy pre fab sub box. If you really want to go loud then build a custom 2 cuft ported sub box. If you need a plan pm me and il send you one.

[-ToM-]

ill have a look at that sub, thanks mate

[-ToM-]

So the amp should be able to handle the 300w RMS alpine sub?

Website says they only come in "shallow" subs? Does that mean they trade performance for size compared to say, a full depth sub?

EDIT: how would one of these go?
http://www.jbl.com/car/products/prod...cat=SUB&ser=GT

[StoneX]

You're underpowering the Pioneer, that's why it's quieter. You could build a better box for the sub (ported) or just find a more efficient subwoofer. I don't think the Alpine Type S is going to be louder than the Pioneer.

[SPLcamry]

Well i would still say run 2 12" kicker comps. It doesn't matter if they are cheap. Beacuse more cone area means, that the system will get really loud. Also the alpine would be louder than the Pioneer because the carbon range of pioneer had cooling diffculties so they loose about 100rms so the sub will be 100rms less then what they pioneer box states.

One of my mates ran a 400rms pioneer off a 400rms pioneer amp and he went out the next week and bought a type S and by far was it louder and clearer. But the JBL would be ok. But you would need to build a custom ported enclosure.

So think if you want a loud sub that sounds like crap or a loud sub that sound clean. If i was going tp buy my first system i would buy 2 12" type S cause they offer great bang for buck with there SPL and SQ scores.

Also if you don't like the Alpine type S well the JL subs are second best. But if you really wanna spend some dough look at DD,RE,cactus sounds,FI,DC,kicker solo X,treo,SPL dynamics and many more. So chose carfully as if you want to be heard on the sreets you would need a good set up.


also i got 132.5db of a set of 6x9's so any speaker will get loud of any power. you just need to have the right box to get the highest Db out of your sub.

[holdenboy]

Yep im with StoneX, youre not getting the full potential from that Pioneer, which by the way isnt a bad sub at all....im sure with 500wrms+ it'll go much harder.

[StoneX]

...Also the alpine would be louder than the Pioneer because the carbon range of pioneer had cooling diffculties so they loose about 100rms so the sub will be 100rms less then what they pioneer box states...

Who tells you this rubbish information?

[SPLcamry]

Ummm Australians loudest SPL competior. So do you think that a woofer that has cooling problems would be able to handle it's reconmended RMS power ?

[VrWagz1]

Alot can be said for properly researching and tuning the box to suit the sub, space and environment that it sits in. For many years i ran the same 10" sub and i always experimented with different boxs(timber was cheap) and it could easily out do a 12" sub that was not setup right. So not saying buy a 10" sub, but simply try building a new box for your old sub and properly sound insulate your boot area. I have that exact sub in the roof of my house collecting dust and I could not say i was underwhelmed by it when it was in my last car.

[theSeekerr]

Cripes people get some strange ideas into their head....

OK, there's two or three phenomena at work here. The first, most important, and completely neglected one is EFFICIENCY.

Efficiency is measured in decibels (at one metre in an anechoic chamber) per watt. Well, at least, it should be. Frequently it's measured at 2.8V RMS instead, which is 1 watt at 8 ohms, but 2 watts at 4 ohms.

Anyway. A lot of cheap car audio subs have really crap efficiency, on the order of about 82dB/Watt. Good subs will have efficiencies more like 88 or 89dB per watt, which doesn't sound like much, until you think that through a little more.

Assuming that you then run your amp flat out, with 260W (difficult, but nevermind that..), the first hypothetical sub would hit 106dB. The second would hit 112dB. Doesn't sound like a big difference, but look at it the other way around - to get the first one to reach 112dB, you'd have needed a hefty 1040 watts!

The second effect is thermal compression: As voice coils heat up with more power, their resistance goes up, so the amount of current through them decreases, and the throw of the cone decreases. As a result, adding more power beyond a certain point will result in diminishing returns. Probably not the problem in this case, because you haven't got all that much power.

The third thing that needs considering is mechanical excursion, but you've got nothing like enough power to be limited by that.

[StoneX]

Ummm Australians loudest SPL competior. So do you think that a woofer that has cooling problems would be able to handle it's reconmended RMS power ?

You should ask be asking why Australia's loudest SPL competitor would have anything to do with a low end Pioneer sub... Not just believing everything you hear. If you're referring to who I think you are, he does talk a lot of shit.

...Anyway. A lot of cheap car audio subs have really crap efficiency, on the order of about 82dB/Watt. Good subs will have efficiencies more like 88 or 89dB per watt, which doesn't sound like much, until you think that through a little more.

Agreed with everything you said except for this. Efficiency doesn't determine whether a speaker is good or bad. Many high end speakers have very low efficiency due to their mechanical design.

[theSeekerr]

Agreed with everything you said except for this. Efficiency doesn't determine whether a speaker is good or bad. Many high end speakers have very low efficiency due to their mechanical design.

Quite right - I should have clarified that as "good subs for SPL use". Personally, I'd rather have a better amplifier and a good sub than a mediocre amplifier and a mediocre but loud sub, but that's not what the OP was asking for.

[-ToM-]

Just something i want to point out. My pioneer is rated at 89db, and the lesser powered JBl is rated at 93db

[StoneX]

That's exactly why it's louder with the same power... The Pioneer works better in a ported enclosure and with it's rated power, then it'll be louder.

As has been said... You need a more efficient sub, more efficient box or more power. You seem to have already picked to get a new sub and like the JVC, so why not get one of those?

[-ToM-]

unfortunately the JVC was an end of production run clearance item that my brother snapped up for cheap, otherwise i would be looking at one of them

[acarmody]

Just a thought. I noticed at WOW Sight and Sound the other day that they were selling brand new Kicker 12" L7s for $299. Not nad for a decent sub. And huge potential for more powerful amps later.

[-ToM-]

Question guys, will my amp be able to handle the DVC version of the JBl sub?

sub:
JBL Car & Marine Audio

Amp:
Lil Wonder III

the write up for the sub says 4ohms, but the tech specs says 2 and 8 ohms.

Amp says
260wx1 @ 4ohms, but doesnt mention how it would power at 2ohms

[SPLcamry]

You should ask be asking why Australia's loudest SPL competitor would have anything to do with a low end Pioneer sub... Not just believing everything you hear. If you're referring to who I think you are, he does talk a lot of shit.


Agreed with everything you said except for this. Efficiency doesn't determine whether a speaker is good or bad. Many high end speakers have very low efficiency due to their mechanical design.

are you reffering to as Phil ?

[-ToM-]

Question guys, will my amp be able to handle the DVC version of the JBl sub?

sub:
JBL Car & Marine Audio

Amp:
Lil Wonder III

the write up for the sub says 4ohms, but the tech specs says 2 and 8 ohms.

Amp says
260wx1 @ 4ohms, but doesnt mention how it would power at 2ohms

anyone? Dont really want to go buying the DVC model if my amp cant run it?

[holdenboy]

Yeah mate by the looks of it your amp wont be able to run at 2 ohm bridged. If you dont want to upgrade your amp and are looking for a sub to run off your current amp you'll have to look at 4 ohm SVC subs.

SPLcamry - dont beleive everything you hear. Those Pioneer subs are not a bad woofer at all, dont know where he got the cooling problems thing from, but i havent come across one yet.

[-ToM-]

JBL Car & Marine Audio

Can be wired to 4ohms DVC. That would use my bridged 4ohm 260w output right?

[StoneX]

Yep