new alpine system for my VY

[danfrg]

Hi all. Ive been prowling the forums over the last few weeks since i decided i was going to put a new system into my car.
I did some looking around and kinda fell in love with alpine, their sales pitch, the look, alot of things really.
Anyways long story short im after some advice, this is what im lining up.

headunit: cda9887
front splits: spx pro 17
amp: pdx 4-150

and a little later down the track ill get a sub and another mono block amp to power it, as well as some back speakers on the parcel shelf (although these are a minor priority).

I was looking at getting a sub enclosure ive seen on ebay, but a friend advised its not ideal to just grab any old sub enclosure and put your sub into it, they need to be built specially for it etc.

I'll be taking it all in to get set up by people who know what there doing, cause while i may be a quick learner and eager to get amongst it, i dun really know too much about the whole caper just yet. Does anyone know how much id be up for to install the amp headunit and splits, and also will sound proofing be nessecary? Thanks for your help all.

[VesperZ]

Yea too right, I wouldn't just buy any sub enclosure simply because every sub has different specifications as to the volume required in the box to give it the best performance. Where do you live? I'd be up for giving you a hand and showing you how it's done. Honestly the rate installers charge for me personally is quite high. I had it done once by a pro installer, only to find some dodgy things done. At least if you do it, you know it's done right. I wouldn't really consider sound proofing until you get to subs, yes it will provide a better sound as it blocks out road noise and what not, but for what your looking at, sound proofing is expensive. Excellent choice of products I must say, you'll be very happy with the result I can guarantee that

[danfrg]

im based in melbourne so its probably a bit out your way being in sydney thanks for the offer though..

[holdenboy]

Nice choice of head-unit, the 9887 is a brilliant bit of gear.....although i do agree with you getting it tuned properly by a pro, ive done a few systems with that unit and its taken anywhere from half an hour to 2 hours to tune properly.
Have you listened to the spx pro 17? I suggest going into a reputable storeand listening to as many splits within your price range, theres plenty of other very good brands / models out there to compete with the spx pro's. If you have done this then great work, just wanted to suggest you "play the field" so to speak first.

The matter of matching a sub with a suitable enclosure has been covered a few times here. Basically, if you go with a sealed enclosure then you can be a little flexible on the enclosure volume. For example, if the subs' spec sheet says sealed box 1 cu.ft. then its relatively safe to go with a sealed enclosure with a volume ranging from 0.8 cu.ft. to 1.2-3 cu.ft.
If you were thinking of the molded enclosures for the rear quarter panels on Ebay then i'll give some advice as i have bought one recently and installed it for a customer, they arent too bad for the money....although i did add a few extra layers of fibreglass matting and resin to the inside of the box, it seemed a little weak it some spots.

As far as costs goes, i would charge around $280 not including wiring, so about $350 including the amplifier cabling and speaker cables etc.

[danfrg]

Thanks for your response holdenboy, yours are always very informative.
Do you say that about the splits because you have others in mind? I know its not going to make for 100% awesomeness, but i would prefer to have the same brand throughout the car. just a personal thingy.. Ive heard the type R's can be quite loud, but im hoping for SQ more then raw power.
And yes the sub enclosure you've mentioned is the one i've come across. That one should be ok for a 12" type x subby?
The other thing im concerned about is that i've read quite a bit about over powering / under powering your speakers / subs.
the amp is plan to have powering the sub is a pdx-1.1000. if i run the pdx 4.150 to the HU, front splits and stock rears i shouldnt have any problems?

Sorry if some of these questions are rubbish, ive spent the last two weeks reading as much as i can, but its still a tricky subject to a noobie :P

[holdenboy]

Sticking with one brand is generally not a good idea, dont get me wrong, Alpine make great products......but the speakers ive found over the years have gradually gone downhill in comparison to other top shelf brands (think Focal, MB Quart, Boston Acoustics etc). Heres a set from Boston that i believe out-class the Alpines when SQ and accuracy is preferred:
Ryda Car Audio - Boston Pro60SE 6" Component Speakers ($839.95)
(Im not affiliated with Ryda )
I very rarely suggest one particular brand when it comes to components, because everyone's tastes and needs / wants are different. What i absolutely love may sound absolutely crap to you and vise-versa
This is why i always say to people "go into a proper car audio store with as many brands as possible, take a CD with you that you know and listen to as many speakers as possible, be sure to take note of the power each set is given too". The reason for taking your own CD in is so you have the exact type of music you'll be listening to, even take two or three if its a wide range. The salesman will either respect you, and more than likely wont "beat around the bush" in regards to specs and prices, or they will look at you weird But dont worry about that, listening to your music and taking note of details which may affect the sound will go a long way to getting a system that YOU like.

Under/over powering speakers / subs isnt really a huge problem provided the gains are set properly and the user knows the maximum settings he/she can can go on the head-unit I usually tend to overpower the systems i design / install (on purpose). This creates some "headroom" in regards to the amplifier, think of it like an engine in a car. Compare a 70kw engine to a 200kw engine, you going to be pushing the 70kw version alot harder than the 200kw one on a daily basis, so the 200kw engine is going to last longer. Its the same principle with amps, say you only "need" 100wrms......its far better to buy a 120-150wrms amplifier and only push it to 2/3rds of its maximum rather than buying a 80-100wrms amplifier and be pushing it to max all the time (obviously when you have the system up to its maximum volume level) - Hope that made sense

Personally, i wouldnt bother with the PDX 4.150, feeding 150wrms of grade A power into rear speakers is a waste. Maybe look at the 2.150 just to power the front splits and run the rears (whether they be stock or aftermarket) off the head-unit. You want the majority of sound to come from "in front" of you (like it would at a concert).

The molded boxes to suit your car should sound fine with the Type X, one of the main positives those enclosures have is the size they take up in the boot, i mean you'll still have plenty of room for luggage or long items (still able to put the centre of the rear seat down).
If space takes priority over sound, then that enclosure will be fine. But you will sacrifice some sound quality and output when compared to a custom built MDF enclosure, built to absolute perfection (and spec) as well as being in the optimum position in your boot, which is something you'll need to test if you choose to go down this route.

Its clear to me by your first post that you have done alot of reading and learned alot from whats on here, this is great to hear....and i am always more than willing to help in any way and ofcourse go into details when answering questions

[danfrg]

about what you said regarding the amp, i know alot of people here dont care for rear speaker power... im somewhat a little more concerned as i regulary have a full car of little music nuts so depending on what price i can get for the amp (or save on the 2.150) i may go either way.
my next question is, does the amp not feed the head unit also? thinking about it based on what i know now im not so sure it does..
my point being if it does and im only running a 2 channel amp (one for each speaker) what powers the HU?
looks like ill go with the sub enclosure atm though..
should i get the 4.150 and sub now. would it be ok to run something like this
HU powering the rears
2 channels powering the splits
and the other 2 channels to the sub?
i know its underpowering it, but would it do the job until i get the second amp?
thanks for your analogy with the engine, makes perfect sense, and once again thanks for all your advise, your a life saver.. also just so u know ive no plans on doing a snatch and grab with this forum. not here to get the info and go.. in fact ill prob start a thread detailing the changes to my car once it all gets going.. ive got an ss front bar to put onto her ( exec sadly ) and some touch up work along with this system, so ill be around for a while

[bezz]

I dont really follow what you mean by asking 'what powers the head unit'. The head unit just runs off the car's power supply. Sorry if I missed the point of your question.

Also the 4 channel amp should provide enough power to your splits and sub to keep you happy for the time being. As long as you set the gain correctly on the amp, and have an understanding of what clipping and distortion is, you won't have a problem.

Here's a fairly comprehensive guide on setting gains, should come in very handy.
Tutorial - Amplifier Gain & Crossover Adjustment - Mobile Electronics Australia

[danfrg]

yep nevere mind about some of my more random questions there, im getting a better understanding day by day, thanks for the link

[danfrg]

Ok, so forgetting whats been said uptil now. I've got the
CDA 9887
SPX pro 17 front splits
pdx 4.150 amplifier

pdx 1.1000 monoblock amp
type x 12" sub.

All of this is yet to be installed. It will go into my VY exec. Im wondering is it a big hastle to have 6.5" speakers installed in the rear, or better off just getting some 6" (the size of the stock speakers)? Like it was mentioned earlier theres no point having grade A power going into stock rears so i will be upgrading my rears.
Next question is after reading around im pressuming i'm going to have dynamat my car up? I'm hoping it wont be an issue as it seems to be a bit of a snake oil (this coming from someone with no experience so feel free to correct me)..

Last of all is it safe to assume that most installers have access to the IMPRINT technology i will be able to take advantage of? I hope to have everything installed correctly and have the IMPRINT software run on it so that im ready to go once i pick her up. Thanks again for everyones help this forum has been a god send.

[Phoen1x]

In my VZ, I have the alpine 9887, and my back door speakers are run directly off the headunit, but the best thing is with the 9887 you can turn this off, so when there is no one in the car except me the back door speakers are turned off. You want the experience of music coming from the front anyways, back door speakers are for backseat passengers.

You dont HAVE to dynamat your car, its a personal choice, I have my front doors and rear shelf dynamatted, and the difference is amazing, just stops unwanted vibrations and rattles.

As for Imprint, im sure most installers do, but are you really going to really on a microphone to tell you what you are hearing? most pprofessional installers will tune cars going by their ears, and even yours. after all, it is you lsitening to the music. Imprint helps, but a pro should be able to do it without.

Daz

[holdenboy]

Upgrading the rear speakers to 6.5" wont require too much modification, some brands will fit straight away, others will need the stock pod to be enlarged a little bit.

Dynamat works in a few ways, but one of the the main pros to it is basically reducing the amount of "road noise" experienced when driving, this enables you to have the stereo volume at a lower level to obtain the same volume when Dynamat has not been installed (hope that makes sense).

As far as IMPRINT goes, ive tuned about 6 9887-equipped systems and never used it, basically i go out to a quite spot and tune, when i get the system sounding the way i like or the way i think the customer would like i get them to have a listen, usually i need make a few adjustments as its not "quite" right.

[AUSFITTER]

Just out of curiosity, why would you use factory door locations in the back and not the rear shelf? Sorry for hijacking, and sorry if its a silly question

[Phoen1x]

Well they are closer to the driver for start. As i said earlier, if your going for sound then you want ur speakers up front, thats why most pro instalss just focus on front doors. but if your just going for a high number of speakers and m0re bass! then throw them wherever, prolly sound like crap but will go loud. Also, if you have a sub, then speakers in the rear shelf are kinda pointless

[danfrg]

good point about the parcel shelf, sorry it never occured to me... im aiming for SQ over loudness.. i just figure like someone mentioned previously since i have the 4 channel amp may as well put some worthy speakers in the back..
As for what Holdenboy mentioned about imprint.. guess im gonna have to see how i go, ive heard mixed reports uptil now.. sounds like dynamat may be worth investing in also..
One other thing, ive picked the car up from the mechanics and was eyeing off the front stock speakers.. they seem to be built into a plastic shelf? under the door handle? hard to explain.. but it looks like it would be a pain in the ass to install speakers..
hoping i will be able to retain the look it has.. ive seen some crappy looking pictures where the speakers are popping out of the wall.. is this going to be an issue you think?
thanks again everyone youve given me things to think about as usual..

[Phoen1x]

Four channels doesnt mean you need 4 speakers. You could bridge the channels for more power in to 2 outputs, or get some splits and power the drivers and the tweeters indiviudally (preferably semi-active).

As for the speakers in the front doors, installation is simple and there is heaps of room in there for 6.5 without any ugliness showing.

[danfrg]

Thanks for all your help Phoen1x.. I'll still stuck as to wether or not i upgrade the rear speakers.. i have splits for the front.. I dont think my speakers can handle the full power of bridged channels though?

[holdenboy]

Why not just do the rest of the system first, then if your not happy with the sound when in the rear seats then upgrade them

Please re-read what i wrote previously:
"Compare a 70kw engine to a 200kw engine, you going to be pushing the 70kw version alot harder than the 200kw one on a daily basis, so the 200kw engine is going to last longer. Its the same principle with amps, say you only "need" 100wrms......its far better to buy a 120-150wrms amplifier and only push it to 2/3rds of its maximum rather than buying a 80-100wrms amplifier and be pushing it to max all the time (obviously when you have the system up to its maximum volume level) - Hope that made sense"

A speaker will only take so much power before it distorts, this might be 80wrms, or maybe 120wrms...even 150wrms, just because you hook up an amp with 300wrms per channel it dosent mean the speaker is going to receive 300wrms and instantly die. Your amplifier will be working at a much lower rate if you overpower the speakers, in my opinion 150wrms per channel is enough for 90% of systems, hence the reason why i suggested you get the 2.150 and power the rears off the head-unit. But now that youve got a 4.150, you might as well bridge it and get the absolute most clarity and potential from your speakers without overdriving your amp.

Take this as an example. I have Digital Designs DDC6.5 splits in the front of my car (80wrms), they are powered from a 4ch amp thats bridged to put out 150wrms per channel. After 45min of it cranking at almost full volume the amp started to get real hot, i then started to notice a reduction in clarity, bass notes started to distort and vocals etc started to get fuzzy. This is a classic example of overdriving an amplifier and causing power output problems. Granted, the amp isnt in the same league as a PDX, but im still WAY overpowering these splits and the amp still struggles to produce the power they require for extended periods.

[danfrg]

sorry i did get what u mentioned before but i didnt realise it could be applied to such a difference..
anyways as rear speakers have always been the lowest priortiy looks like it will be rear stocks powered by the headunit, and the 4 channel amp bridged to power the splits..
still waiting on the sub and final amp to arrive before i go and get the install done.. i'll get back to everyone once its up and running and let you know how its gone..
thanks holdenboy and phoenix youve both been most helpful

[Sway_OnVY]

Hey holdenboy, i got and OLD SCHOOL panosonic (for free, thats why its in there!) at 240 watts, my spitls atm are fusion 140watts, but when the headunit is pumped the left split tweater dies then the right woofer the the left tweater... same thing? Always thought the amp was a piece of cwrap.. Sorry to jack the thread. I got split fronts and 2 12" rear and would only place rears off the unit for passengers too.

[holdenboy]

Could be plenty of things mate, maybe the amps / speakers / wiring.