2x Alpine Type S 10's running of Alpine M350

[Deutscher]

Hey,

I got this stereo in my car when I brought it.
2x Alpine Type S 10" subs running of a Alpine M350 (200 watts RMS x 1 at 4 ohms (350 watts RMS x 1 at 2 ohms).
Alpine DD Linears running of a Alpine F250 (100 watts RMS x 2 bridged output at 4 ohms (4-ohm stable in bridged mode).

Just wondering what you guys thought of the Type S's? I think they sound rather odd, these are my first 10" subs, I've always had 12" subs (Alpine Type R & Hifonic 2412). I'm trying to decide why I don't like the sound... if it's the subs, amp, deck.. or tuning. To me it looks like black & gold wiring, it's a old Alpine deck (won't play burnt CD's - LOL - Getting it replaced on Thursday with a Alpine 9887 ).

The setup looked pretty cheap, so I'm not sure what is the problem if not all of it. I know 10's are quicker etc.... i've never really heard 10's and I listen to DnB/HipHop type music.

Any thoughts on the Type S's or the Amps themselves?

[HCVP]

The subs themselves will take a bit more power than what that amp is giving them, even in a ported situation. A sub is only as good as it's enclosure, and if your not giving it suffucuent power, then obviously you will never hear it's full potential.
If underpowered, they will simply reach a point and distort, which is the disstorted signal being recieved from the amp, not a reflection of the performance capabilities of the sub themselves (otherwise known as clipping) which is most likely what your experiencing now.

They aren't a bad sub, but obviously limitied in thier abilities if your expecting ground shaking bass. In a smaller vehicle, such as yours, correctly tuned, they would compliment the muisc quite well though from an SQ point of view, but expect too much from them, and you will quickly realsie their limits.

A subsonic filter is also good for smaller, lower powered subs, as you can eliminate the more lower fq's, which would otherwise hinder there power handling capabilities. Keeping them tuned above, and below a certain point, to get the most out of them.

[Joe Bellissimo]

Well its a lower quality sub than anything you have used before. That could have something to do with it. Try a retune and see how you go.

[Deutscher]

The subs themselves will take a bit more power than what that amp is giving them, even in a ported situation. A sub is only as good as it's enclosure, and if your not giving it suffucuent power, then obviously you will never hear it's full potential.
If underpowered, they will simply reach a point and distort, which is the disstorted signal being recieved from the amp, not a reflection of the performance capabilities of the sub themselves (otherwise known as clipping) which is most likely what your experiencing now.

They aren't a bad sub, but obviously limitied in thier abilities if your expecting ground shaking bass. In a smaller vehicle, such as yours, correctly tuned, they would compliment the muisc quite well though from an SQ point of view, but expect too much from them, and you will quickly realsie their limits.

A subsonic filter is also good for smaller, lower powered subs, as you can eliminate the more lower fq's, which would otherwise hinder there power handling capabilities. Keeping them tuned above, and below a certain point, to get the most out of them.

I was thinking the amp was clipping because it doesn't have that much power to it.
I forgot to mention the subs are in individual sealed enclosures.
I'm getting a new deck put in on thursday and hopefully get them to fix my aerial (it won't go down - got a new mast for it now - not even fused if it doesn't go back up... rarely listen to radio nyway). So I'll get them to have a look at the tuning. Also getting them to replace the RCA leads to Rockford ones just so I don't have to fiddle with them later on (like mentioned.. the wiring looks cheap).

[Deutscher]

Well its a lower quality sub than anything you have used before. That could have something to do with it. Try a retune and see how you go.

Getting deck put in & Rockford RCA's instead of the cheap crap they had in before on Thursday & get them to retune it aswell. See if we could make these subs sound slightly better... if not... new subs will pushed closer to the top of my "To Buy List (When I Get Some Cash!)".


Hopeing better RCA's and new deck & tuning will improve the sound.... I also need to get my left speaker working... doesn't look blown but maybe cable damaged. Lots to do but never have time. Spent good 3hrs washing & machine polishing my car on the weekend.

[StoneX]

Can't see the RCA's giving any audible improvement. I use basic UTP Jaycar RCA's with $2k front speakers and $1k front amp and it sounds alright

[Deutscher]

Can't see the RCA's giving any audible improvement. I use basic UTP Jaycar RCA's with $2k front speakers and $1k front amp and it sounds alright

Hmm... you really have 2k front speakers? I thought you had Boston Z6's? didn't think they were that much. Can you really hear 2k worth?

Regardless. Umm... I just thought that the RCA's would have better shielding from interference and because if the signal is bad then the amp will just amplify the bad signal. Just thought trying to get the best signal would be the best option - to start at the beginning of the source. So upgraded headunit and good quality RCA's to amp & good tuning would be the best way to get the cleanest SQ.

Well that was my debate anyway..

[HCVP]

RCA leads will have little, if no effect at all. Even cheap one's employ the same basic sheilding method. A little off topic, but i've even conducted blind test's at home, using the supplied interconnects, and a set costing $300, and i couldn't tell which was which.

A new deck on the other hand will make a difference's, as the amplifier "amplifies" the signal being sent to it, from the head unit.But like you said, the amp is insufficient, so until you have something suitable, there's not really much you can do.

Tuning is everything, and all though fairly basic, a lot of people get it wrong. It is all the little things that go together as a whole, to either complete, or improve a setup, but component selection such as amps and speakers, will always have the most audible difference, as aposed to high quality leads, and so forth.

What size are the enclosure's you currently have you sub's in? What's inside, bare MDF, dampening, do they have internal bracing, or just simply square empty boxes? Even cheap pre-fabs (sealed) can be improved upon without spending too much money.

[Deutscher]

RCA leads will have little, if no effect at all. Even cheap one's employ the same basic sheilding method. A little off topic, but i've even conducted blind test's at home, using the supplied interconnects, and a set costing $300, and i couldn't tell which was which.

A new deck on the other hand will make a difference's, as the amplifier "amplifies" the signal being sent to it, from the head unit.But like you said, the amp is insufficient, so until you have something suitable, there's not really much you can do.

Tuning is everything, and all though fairly basic, a lot of people get it wrong. It is all the little things that go together as a whole, to either complete, or improve a setup, but component selection such as amps and speakers, will always have the most audible difference, as aposed to high quality leads, and so forth.

What size are the enclosure's you currently have you sub's in? What's inside, bare MDF, dampening, do they have internal bracing, or just simply square empty boxes? Even cheap pre-fabs (sealed) can be improved upon without spending too much money.

I can't really tell you much about the boxes. They seem to be built alright. I don't know Volume though... it's kinda of a odd shape to (made to fit the space I suppose). It's got white cushioning stuff inside. I think a Car Audio place did the install for the boxes.. it looks quite professional.

[Deutscher]

Got my deck put in last night (Alpine 9887), also ran some new RCA's.

Apparently the MR2 doors have some depth so Alberts said should fit Alpine R's.... Which I think is strange because why would they have put DD Linears in if anything fitted?

Also got my aerial fixed! No it isn't always out! But the Aerial sits lower than the old one. So now theres kind of like a hole from the body.... they said it won't matter, rain won't get in etc.

Alberts didn't get time to run my RCA or retune my setup. So last night (after 9pm) I took out both my seats and ran the RCA's under the carpet and plugged them into the amps. Atm I'm just using a preset EQ so atleast some bass is coming out, the previous deck must have been set and the amps hardly anything because when I turned my car on with the headunit standard there was absolutely no bass.

Also, does it matter if you plug the RCA's in differently? The RCA's I have are Black & Grey. On the Amp end the connections are White & Red. So I just plugged the Black into the White & Grey into Red. Would it affect it if it was meant to be the other way (cause how it's plugged into the deck?)

[HCVP]

Never use pre-set EQ. Adjust your HPF/LPF to suit.
RCA colour ect, doesen't matter.

I dunno why Alberts recommended Type R's...Did you mention a front upgrade, what other brands do they stock?

[Deutscher]

Never use pre-set EQ. Adjust your HPF/LPF to suit.
RCA colour ect, doesen't matter.

I dunno why Alberts recommended Type R's...Did you mention a front upgrade, what other brands do they stock?

I quite like the Type R's. Had them in previous car and my gf has them in her car. But I think they just mentioned that I could fit those in, because they have a big magnet.
They sell other stuff - Pioneer, MB Quart, Rockford, Alpine, DD, Eclipse, CDT (by order), SoundStream (by order).

Re. RCA's - So... say Deck side RCA is plugged in R but then on amp side it's plugged in L, that wouldn't make a difference?

[holdenboy]

L and R RCAs swapped over just means any recording with distinct stereo sound will be swapped around (sound thats supposed to come from the left actually comes from the right and vice versa). This only applies to "unbridged" amps that are running in stereo mode. So if the outputs of the amp is bridged (say to run subs) then it dosent matter.

Also, DD Linears AFAIK are cheaper...probably the reason why they went with them.

[Deutscher]

L and R RCAs swapped over just means any recording with distinct stereo sound will be swapped around (sound thats supposed to come from the left actually comes from the right and vice versa). This only applies to "unbridged" amps that are running in stereo mode. So if the outputs of the amp is bridged (say to run subs) then it dosent matter.

Also, DD Linears AFAIK are cheaper...probably the reason why they went with them.

Thx Holdenboy.

Just rang Alberts back up, they plug Gray into White & Black into Red. So I'll switch them over, hopefully be able to reach em without taking seats out again for the 100th time!!

Yesterday I took passenger seat out to run RCA under carpet, all was good, put seat back in.

Later I decided to have a look why my Left side speaker & tweeter wasn't working (no sound at all), so I thought must be at the crossover... Started searching, taking the glovebox half off, kick panels etc cant find a bloody crossover anywhere, check inside the door .. nothing. Came to the conclusion the DD linears don't have crossovers!

So instead of searching for break in the speaker cable I ran a new one. Took out passenger seat again - find out it's the Sub amp!! put seat back on and take out other seat!

The DD Linears, the tweeter connects to the speaker, is there a certain way to attach the cables? There's 4 prongs, 2 positive & 2 negatives. A positive & Negative for each the Woofer and Tweeter - does it matter which positive & negative prongs you use? ie. should the inner prongs (1x postivie & 1x negative) be used for the woofer and then the outter prongs for the tweeter? or can it be mixed around? (I think it was mixed when I pulled them off, so I've mixed them up again).

http://carview-img02.bmcdn.jp/minkar...2710956/p1.jpg

[holdenboy]

Yeah the DD Linears use a smallish capacitor type arrangement on the tweeter wire if i remember correctly.

No theres no particular way to connect the tweeter up to the woofer, its there just to make things easier.

[Deutscher]

Yeah the DD Linears use a smallish capacitor type arrangement on the tweeter wire if i remember correctly.

No theres no particular way to connect the tweeter up to the woofer, its there just to make things easier.

So as long as the Tweeter & Woofer has a positive & negative each then it's fine. Both positive/negative prongs are the same?
Might think about writing up a Q&A and post, the amount of questions I've posted, I'm sure others will find it useful.

Edit: Reason I asked about the RCA's etc. is because when I turn my deck to vol.20, the left speaker sounds like it distorts, it's fine until bassy music is on. Either way it wouldn't have anything to do with RCA's cause the right speaker sounds fine. That's why I asked about connecting the cable/tweeter to the terminals. The speaker never worked so I dont no if it's the speaker itself or something else. I had run new speaker cable from the amp to the speaker itself - so the cable should be fine.

Edit: Kind of sounds like the speaker cone is hitting something but positive it ain't. Sounds like it's excursion is being put to the max or something. But 1 channel couldn't put out more than the other.... and the deck is default (apart from hiphop/rap EQ). I know preset EQ's aren't great but it wouldn't affect 1 speaker and not the other. I don't care too much for these speakers cause I'm getting new ones eventually nyway... just annoying having 1 good speaker and the other sounding bad.

[Deutscher]

> Swapperd the RCA's around like Alberts had said = Didn't change anything to my knowledge (didn't really expect it to either).
> Took of door trim to see if the speaker is hitting the trim = nothing changed.
> Tighten the spacer to the door, Tightened speaker to spacer = nothing changed.
> I switched the positive & negative terminals over on the woofer = nothing changed.

I brought some cable from SuperCheap - some random brand, 100% oxygen free, upto 300watts etc. Don't think that could be the problem. Ran cable from under driver seat - along centre console - behind deck - behind glovebox - into door. Power cable looks like it runs from firewall straight under carpet to under the seat (didn't think this would affect it).

My next speculation is the amp, maybe dodgey channel. I'll try switching the channels around and see if it changes anything. I don't think theres any dials to change a setting for one channel only.

The tweeter makes a strange noise aswell. Maybe that side is getting too much power? I turned off the EQ's and it still done it. It's not even on bassy music... I tried Kings of Leon aswell. Stange thing was... when I got home yesterday I had a listen to the speaker.. it sounded clear so I left it... driving this morning I could here it all the way to work!