help me! i know very little about car audio but really want to learn :)

[sam.]

hey guys and girls, i am kitting out my VY S II with new sound i have just installed JL front splits and JL rear 2 ways all powered off a JL 5ch amp. the speakers run great but this is where my knowledge ends
i have the 5th ch on my amp still to play with. its a sub output (mono) and can produce 200Watts RMS at 4 ohms, or 400Watts RMS at 2 ohms.

what would be the perfect sub (spec wise, RMS, Dual 2 ohm, Dual 4 ohm, etc) to run off this 5th ch on my amp?
any help would be great, i really want to learn about this stuff
thanks

[acarmody]

Something with about 400wrms with either Single 2-ohm, or dual 1 or 4 ohm (this allows you to wire it in series or parallel to achieve 2-ohm).

Depending on what sort of music you like it can be 8", 10", 12", or 15". The smaller subs are better with faster beats, while the bigger subs are better at low rolling bass, though a decent 12" is considered a good all-rounder.

[m1lky]

As above a dual 4 is often the cheapest. Go for a 10 or a 12 IMO. A 8 is quite small and doesn't sound like a "sub" unless it's in a big ported box generally. A 15 takes up way too much space for no real gain.

One rated to 250rms will be fine. Having more power than you need is called headroom and helps prevent the amp from clipping and damaging the speaker.

Have you got any subs in mind?

Are you going to build or buy your box?

[acarmody]

150wrms out of 400wrms is a lot of headroom and in my opinion a waste of good power. JL products are decent so I doubt it will clip or overheat easily.

50wrms would be a better amount of headroom.

[sam.]

thanks for all the help guys. do you recomend going for the single input subs (single 4 ohm/2 ohm) or the dual input subs (dual 4 ohm in my case so i can achieve 400rms @ 2ohm) i would like to make the most out of the amp becasue i did spend a fair bit. im not sure about what sub i actualy want. i have heard good things about JL, Kicker, Polk, Alpine. if i could get some exact specs for subs from you guys that would help heaps so i can start shopping around. if you had 200rms @ 4omh/400rms @ 2ohm what would the sub specs be that you would be looking for??

[m1lky]

To run at 2ohm 400wrms:

If you go with one sub your options are:
- single 2ohm voice coil, 250-400wrms rating
- dual 4 ohm voice coil. 250-400wrms
- dual 1 ohm voice coil 250-400wrms

If you go with 2 subs
- single 4 rated 150-250wrms
- dual 2ohm rated 150-250wrms

(I've probably forgotten some combinations you can run. Don't take my recommended ratings as gospel they're pretty flexible)

Just remember two things when you setup your system. Do not use 'bass boost' or 'loud' features and you'll be sweet.

These are two subs I personally know:
-Friend of mine runs a type r 12 off 400wrms and it sounds good.
-I run an id12 (250wrms) off an alpine mono at 600wrms all day everyday, great sub nice and loud

[sam.]

thanks for that. i think im getting the hang of this dual and single ohm stuff. i had a look on this website where i bought all my speakers and amp from, here are a few links to subs that i think fit well with my amp. let me know what you think of these subs, brands, quality, etc.. and if you have any other recomendations.
these are just the subs themselves, i will be getting a custom box made and tuned for me. thanks

Sound Master Car Audio - ($239) Boston G212-4 12inch Subwoofer G2124

Sound Master Car Audio - ($224) Kicker CVR124 CompVR Series 12inch Subwoofer CVR124

Sound Master Car Audio - ($210) JL Audio 12W0V24 Subwoofer 12W0V24

[m1lky]

The kicker is suited to the amp. The others not so. If your prepared to pay extra I'd go for a jl sub that's dual 4

What about this from the same place?
http://www.soundmaster.com.au/Sounds...C/PCW12DVC.asp
Quite well suited to your amp and not very expensive either

I believe Boston often do a single 2ohm sub. That would be good for your setup.

By the way I'm very happy to hear you talking in terms of rms

[sam.]

yeah i saw that one but because it is a D4 sub wouldnt that mean i would be over powering it but 100 rms @ 2 ohm? and yeah, its all about rms, not this stupid peak power bs haha. which jl sub are you talking about, this one? Sound Master Car Audio - ($787) JL Audio 12W6V2 12inch Subwoofer 12W6V2
becuase thats ALOT of money haha. i found that on on this website. have you heard anything about this site (i have filtered the search for JL 12" subs: Component Subwoofers at Crutchfield.com[rank9]12"
whats your pick from this site??

[sam.]

just realised that website doesnt ship to AUS damn it! even though, i found this sub, what do you think? JL Audio 12W3v3-2 W3v3 Series 12" 2-ohm subwoofer at Crutchfield Signature

they have this same one on that AUS website (soundmaster)

[m1lky]

I would say that the jl above is a good sub. Would run well on your amp too (haunt heard it though).

I would happily put a 300rms sub on 400rms. But then I'm always very conservative on the gains.

Do you plan to build or buy a box? Will you run sealed or ported? How much room do you want to give up in your boot?

[sam.]

yeah the above sub is also available on soundmaster and its power specs would mean i have 100rms at 2 ohms worth of head room cos i really dont want to risk blowing my sub. will 400rms at 2 ohms give good kick aswell as fill my car with clean bass??
i plan on getting a box custom made, the builder recomends ported but i have read that a sealed box gives better sound quality? my boot is pretty big, i dont mind sacrificing too much of the space but i dont want a huge box. just an average sized box built to match my sub.

[m1lky]

400 will give you plenty of kick. Especially in a ported box. Sq is very subjective, depends what your after and what you like.

100rms of headroom will be fine. Your amp would only reach it's rated power if you were playing a sine wave anyway. Don't use loud or bass boost as these are a good way to kill the sub by causing the amp to clip.

[sam.]

ok cool, so that single 2ohm 12" JL sub is a good fit for my amp then?
well im a mutt wen it comes to music haha. i listen to all kinda of music from heavy rock, dance, electronic, hip/hop, rap and anything with nice bass tones to show off the sub would you recomend ported or sealed? and whats clipping? i havnt heard of this term before?
ok thanks, il make sure to never have bass boost, or loud turned on via the headunit or the ipod. thanks for that.

[m1lky]

I think that sub would be decent. But I haunt heard it.

If you have the space go ported. Ported boxes are more efficient and you'll get more 'boom' for your power (if that's what your after).

Clipping is when the amp hits it's rails and can no longer reproduce the sound correctly.

Lets assume for simplicity your playing a sine wave. Your amplifier will then amplify the magnitude of the input signal. However your amp has finite rails so if you try to amplify it too far (by having the gains too high) the signal hits the voltage of the power rails before the full sine wave has been reproduced. So the top and bottom are truncated off and in an extreme case it begins to resemble a square wave.

If you use bass boost or loud etc this significantly increases the magnitude of the input signal at certain frequencies. So with a gain that would normally be fine you can get clipping at these frequencies. But because it's only at some frequencies it's hard to hear and can damage the sub.

[sam.]

ok so cliping is when you push your amp to hard and shit happens pretty much thanks for that info. im leaning toward a ported box cos i really want to make the most out of the sub. so playing this sub at 2 ohms 400rms will be fine cos its rated at 100-500rms single 2 ohms. i found this page from the JL Audio site and it has the sub im looking at getting and it even gives you a scale at the bottom of the page which tells you the optimum rms of each sub. and my amp output fits in there perfectly. take a look: JL Audio 12W3v3 Subwoofers - Car Audio Subwoofers

[m1lky]

Pretty much just driving it too hard but the mechanism it happens by helps to understand it.

That should be a very nice sub. Just build a ported box to their recommended size and you'll be on the money.

[sam.]

awesome! thanks for all the help. cant wait to get my sound system finished

[dthrw]

This might sound like a stupid question but i cant get the door panels (so i can put new speakers in there) off a ve omega Ive undone the 2 screws under the bottom of the door panel, the silver screw in the door handle and the 2 screws under the arm rest i just don't want to force anything and end up breaking the clips or something like that seeing as the cars basically new.

[sam.]

sorry mate cant help you out. you are best starting your own thread in the audio section.

[dthrw]

i ii wait a while to see if someone replies then i ii start a thread. Ive found how to's but none for ve's and from what i can see if i can install the speakers myself i ii be saving myself a small fortune might have a little bit of trouble with the headset though.

[dthrw]

i suppose worst comes to worst i could just call a panel beaters and try and get them to walk me through it

[m1lky]

Just gently pull, make sure you've got every screw out though. Otherwise a plastic crowbar is a good tool to have.

[dthrw]

tried that i was hoping someone could point me on the right track if i have to take the arm rest off or the door handle etc, if pics would help i ii upload some

edit:
found a how to, to take off the door panel as well as installing the speakers
Upgrading VE Stock Speakers - How To