advice on sub/amp combos

[b1rsey]

hi all...just wanted some opinions on how youse would run this setup.

ive got 2 kicker cvr 12 inch subs in a kicker ported box...atm im running them off an inadequate 4ch amp bridged to the single terminal.

im looking at several setups to power these bad boys:

keep the current box and buy a kicker dx1000.1 mono amp to run both subs wired parallel, it puts out 1000w rms.

use a pioneer sealed box that was used with high end pioneer subs;
and buy either 2 pioneer gm-d8500 mono amps that put out 1200w max each, or 2 kenwood kac-8105 mono amps that put out 1000w each.

now i get that there are plenty of other amps/brands out there to choose from but these seem to be fairly decent and the prices ive found are top notch, if anyones got another brand or amp in mind though im all ears.

obviously buying 2 amps will cost a bit more and need the second wiring kit...but i was wondering what would be the advantages of running 2 amps vs 1 amp?

i was thinking a bit less stress on each amp, although then itll drain the battery a bit more, more wiring throughout the car, but then if something goes wrong atleast its all separated.

thanks for any input you guys have to offer.

[Nic92]

just get the dx1000.1, why go sealed wen ya already got ported ?

[HCVP]

You need to make up your mind first which direction your going to go in with regards to the enclosure design and how you would like the subs to perform. Really though your best of designing and building a new, and more suitable enclosure, rather than spending top dollar on an amp with too many other weak links in the chain.

[b1rsey]

@nic92..i was thinking a new box cos of the dual input terminals on the other box ie more power to each sub... and im not 100% on the pros/cons of ported vs sealed which was part of the reason why i asked?? im not heaps knowledgeable on the audio side of cars...sure installations of components are easy enough but which options/setting etc to go with are a bit trickier.

@hcvp..ive got a vs wagon and can see myself having it for a while....the bass coming out originally was loud but also really echoing throughout the cargo area which i didnt like so ive now got the subs facing the seats to try and reduce the echo..i was wondering if a ported/sealed enclosure could help with that, but i also realise that properly tuning the amp will work wonders in the first place..im constantly tweaking it to get a good mix of settings

thanks guys for the input, appreciate it

[kcpwns]

Hey mate I CBf looking up the stats of the amps you are thinking about...
Are your stats watts or wrms?
Im running dual kicker l7's and I recommend option audio amps...
I've got just one powering them until I buy another..
It's the oax2000...or oac2000 can't remember....runs 2000wrms at 1ohm
And 1500wrms at 2ohm...
Can buy these amps for around $700? Depends where you are I guess...

With the actuall enclosure I haven't experienced the difference between
Ported and sealed...but my box is ported and it goes hard so I'd
Recommend ported
Hope that helps

[Nic92]

@nic92..i was thinking a new box cos of the dual input terminals on the other box ie more power to each sub... and im not 100% on the pros/cons of ported vs sealed which was part of the reason why i asked?? im not heaps knowledgeable on the audio side of cars...sure installations of components are easy enough but which options/setting etc to go with are a bit trickier.

@hcvp..ive got a vs wagon and can see myself having it for a while....the bass coming out originally was loud but also really echoing throughout the cargo area which i didnt like so ive now got the subs facing the seats to try and reduce the echo..i was wondering if a ported/sealed enclosure could help with that, but i also realise that properly tuning the amp will work wonders in the first place..im constantly tweaking it to get a good mix of settings

thanks guys for the input, appreciate it

the box it comes with should be already wired in parallel.. if u do series then have the wire going through the port, or do it thru the terminal, or if you want to seperate wires for the subs then do thru the port or simple buy a double terminal and make a hole and screw it in, i would build a new ported box if you were going to build one.. you would get better frequencys coming from that kicker box than a sealed

[HCVP]

To start you in the right direction, forget about power. Power is the last thing in line.

Something you need to consider before going any further, or in fact before you buy any component, in this case subwoofers.

You need to choose a subwoofer/s that suits your needs. Whether this is a sound quality sub that suits your listening needs and musical tastes, or an SPL designed subwoofer for maximum output, or anything in between.

There is no point in getting any random subwoofer/s and then trying to set them up to suit when may not even be suitable from the start. A sub is not just a sub, just like a set of speakers aren't just speakers. They will all sound different, and be designed for many different applications.

Sealed and ported - There's load of info on this on the internet, so i won't go into it, i'll leave you to do the research yourself. Even if i was to write a short and accurate explanation, it would most likely be a page long any way.

Any vehicle is going to change a way a sub sounds. From a wagon to sedan to a hatch, the same sub in each vehicle will sound completely different. I know you have a wagon, but i can't really offer you suggestions about placement and facing until i know what you have in mind.

If i absolutely had to suggest a placement, i would say rear loading as close as possible to the tail gate. Placing a sub closer to the listener does not mean it will be any louder or perform better. But as always you really need to experiment as much as you can until you find what suits you best.

If you post back a little more about what your after as a final outcome, i could go into a bit more detail about some possible different enclosures, and how they might sound / perform, and could assist further after that if you like.

[HCVP]

would get better frequencys coming from that kicker box than a sealed

A ported enclosure will unload at a tuned fq, a sealed enclosure is likely to have a flatter response curve. There's no better or worse, it's individual preference, design, and setup.

To add, the vehicle itself will have an effect of the peak fq, so off the shelf ported enclosure's are typically the worse choice as there is the possibility that the enclosure will perform poorly with the vehicle setup.

[b1rsey]

@kcpwns:
so the cvrs are the 12 inch and put are rated @ 400wrms
pioneer running 300wrms @ 4 ohms, 600wrms @ 2 ohms
kenwood running 300wrms @ 4 ohms, 500wrms @ 2 ohms
kicker running 1000wrms @ 1 ohm, 550wrms @ 2 ohms, 280wrms @ 4 ohms
seems i read the specs wrong the first time so the kicker wont give out 100% for both subs wired in series or parallel...either wiring them in series or parallel yeilds a 2 ohm rating as they are both the 2 ohm dual voice coil models.
cheers mate, appreciate it but seeing as im a student and have already sunk $1000+ into the stereo system already, $700 is a bit steep at the moment, not saying id do it cheaply its just that i reckon ill still be able to get good output from hopefully half that price.

@hcvp:
it appears to me that you REALLY know youre shit, and kudos to helping out the kids that want to make LOUD noises haha
i did have them right up at the tailgate but i use the space quite alot so really its more convenient to have them right behind the rear seats.
and im not all that fussed over having the best shit goin around cos i know it aint gonna happen, so ill be quite content to get a nice outcome that im happy with even if it could be better.
honeslty at the minute i cant really think of how i can describe what i want out of my system but thanks anyways.
top bloke cheers

im thinkin in the end i may just offload the box to someone that wants it...maybe on here and keep the subs the way they are as kicker must have put them in that box for a reason.....im hoping haha
again thanks guys, now to hit up the net and local audio stores to find me an amp

[HCVP]

kicker must have put them in that box for a reason.....im hoping haha

Yep, cause then you buy the subs, AND a box.

With a ported box you need to get it right from the start. It has to suit the car, the application, and the listeners tastes and needs. No manafactuer can cater to this from the factory.

I'll try and explain the port side a little. The port is all about the tuning, as is the size of the enclosure. The port is responsible for the sub unloading at a certain frequency. The length, and also diameter of the port , even the number of ports, changes the tuning. Think velocity stacks if your into bikes....

The size of the enclosure can have an effect on the sound, and also the overall efficiency of the sub.

If you post a link to me of the enclosure you have, i can calculate the tuning frequency of the enclosure and also have a rough stab at the peak fq of a VS wagon. In fact i don't know if he's still an active member, but "HoldenBoy" was into SPL with his VR / VS wagon and he would definately know what fq the wagon peaks at.

If we have a look at that without even listening we can get a bit of an idea about how the subs are going to perform. All though the size of the enclosure you have can't be altered (unless you went smaller) but the port can be changed by adding lenght, shortening ect, and you can lower or raise the tuning fq. This would cost you nothing but time, possibly a trip to a plumbing store if you found improvements and wanted to continue testing.

If the whole ported side sounds a bit too much for you, then just use the sealed enclosure you have. There is nothing wrong with sealed enclosures, and in fact i prefer them myself. A sub in a sealed enclosure will not be as efficient ( not an issue if you are buying a more powerful amp) and will have a more flatter response curve , and may even fix that boominess and echo that you describe.

Your sealed enclosure can be better as well by a few coats of reason inside, some polyfill, and if your keen a thicker front baffle.

Oh, and for the record, i hate LOUD noise lol

[b1rsey]

@ hcvp
im not 100% as my subs were second hand but im pretty sure this is the enclosure they are in. they are the 05dcvr122 model so the box specs may have been updated
CompVR Sub Boxes | KICKER

but ill def pm holdenboy if he still goin around the site
cheers again

[b1rsey]

was wondering if this would go hard enough for the two subs wired in parallel in the enclosure in the post above.....i was a bit sceptical over the spec write up in the description but i imagine it would be powerful enough

BOSS PH3000D 3000 WATT MONO CLASS D CAR AUDIO AMPLIFIER (eBay item 110698682197 end time 08-Jul-11 05:35:36 AEST) : eBay Motors

cheers b1rsey

[acarmody]

was wondering if this would go hard enough for the two subs wired in parallel in the enclosure in the post above.....i was a bit sceptical over the spec write up in the description but i imagine it would be powerful enough

BOSS PH3000D 3000 WATT MONO CLASS D CAR AUDIO AMPLIFIER (eBay item 110698682197 end time 08-Jul-11 05:35:36 AEST) : eBay Motors

cheers b1rsey

That amp would be perfect................as a paperweight.

Amazing how they managed to get 1200wrms with only 50amps worth of fuses. Must have a damn perpetual motion machine built into it.

[b1rsey]

thanks acarmody....i had a feeling that with the buy it price and apparent power it was a doozy.
hows this one looking?

Pioneer PRS-D3000SPL Mono Block Amplifier (eBay item 170660571279 end time 07-Jul-11 16:40:23 AEST) : Cars, Bikes, Boats
its got a starting price of $300 so i would expect it to jump a bit more

got some more specs here....
Pioneer Premier PRS-D3000SPL Mono Subwoofer Amplifiers at Onlinecarstereo.com

[acarmody]

The Pioneer Reference stuff is pretty good, but that amp will be a bit old now.

I can look up some amps for you, but first I need to know the impedance of the subs you have? 2-ohm DVC each, 4-ohm DVC each, 2-ohm SVC each, or 4-ohm SVC each?

[b1rsey]

that would be awesome and heaps appreciated.....both 2ohm dual voice coils each...but wired in parallel in a single box so rated at 2ohms for the system.....correct me if im worng, but i believe that because of the wiring setup i can put in 800wrms of power from the amp without fear of blowing either sub....even though the individual subs are rated at 400wrms each.....and that even monoblock class d amps rated at 800wrms will put out lower wrms as they wont run @ 100% efficiency all the time.
thanks a bunch everyone, greatly appreciated

[acarmody]

If they are rated to 400wrms each than wired together you can feed them 800wrms. Getting an amp with more power though is good because the amp isn't constantly working at 100%, so it will run cooler and last longer.

The power rating for an amp is measured on the output, so efficiency is irrelevant.

Good amp, with option for more power by sub upgrades to something that can run at 1-ohm, Ryda Car Audio - Soundstream PX1.1300 Picasso - Mono Amp($529.85)
Cheap but will do the job, Ryda Car Audio - Fusion CA-DA12250 Mono Block Car Amplifier($429.85)
Good brand, plenty of power headroom, Ryda Car Audio - JBL GTO14001 Mono Block Amplifier($593.85)

[mangzilla]

personally, id check out the kicker amp that the subs are made to work with. from my own experiences, kicker subs tend to work really well with their own amps. just my oppinion though.

[b1rsey]

thanks again acarmody....real helpful with your advice & opinions, much appreciated
found a few more that have caught my eye....if you have any input...or anyone else thatd be sweet....price is a bit of an issue atm...may just wait for the extra money and get a real decent one but i think itd be smarter for the time being to get one that may not be the best but be good and not uber expensive....cant wait till uni is over and working full-time but.

kenwood kac-9105d mono amp
Kenwood - KAC-9105D
Sound Master Car Audio - ($289) Kenwood KAC-9105D Performance Series Class D Mono Power Amplifier KAC9105D

rockford fosgate r1000-1d
Rockford Fosgate R1000-1D Mono Subwoofer Amplifiers at Onlinecarstereo.com

brutus brz1700.1d
WoofersEtc.com - BRZ1700.1D - Hifonics Brutus Series 1700W RMS 1-Channel Monoblock Super Class D Amplifier
Brand New Hifonics Brutus Brz1700.1 1,700 Watt RMS (Cea-2006 Certified) Monoblock Super Class D Amplifier with High Efficiency | Daily deals

these are the sort of amps that are in my price range at the minute...any opinions that you guys have would be sweet

@mangzilla
i had a look at the kicker amps....but those prices are a bit out of range for the time being :P
may upgrade in the future but for now somewhere half way between what i got now and what id ultimately like is good enough i reckon

[mangzilla]

ahhh yeah, i know that situation. ive got kicker comp 10s (i listen to mainly metal and the likes) and i used to run a $200 clarion mono block, it did the job and still sounded decent, but ive since upgraded to the kicker amp that supposedly is perfect to work with my subs and it just sounds so much tighter, clearer and packs more punch.

if you dont mind the wait for postage, you could check out buying from the US, particularly with the good exchange rate atm.