VE SS Sportwagon Audio Upgrade. Some advice still needed after searching!

[shaunve]

Hi,

Ive been browsing through these forums for a few weeks and still cant make sense of what i need to make this happen. Ive just bought an 09 VE SS Sportwagon and, like many, want to upgrade the shitty stock system. I want to
replace the front splits, rear 6's, add an amp under the seat and a small low profile sub (maybe under the seat or in a shallow box in the boot, as it'll have to be removed sometimes). Im seriously leaning towards Jaycar stuff, as it appears to be good value for money.

Anyway, i need to know what i have to do to the stock head unit to make this happen. Apparently i need to convert something in the H/U to run RCA's???? What does this mean and is it the same as the Phreddy mod ive read about (but dont understand)!
Also, what are Hi-Lo level converters and what do they do? And the same goes for LOC's; what are they? Im getting confused with all the jargon. Clearly i know very little about car audio, but i want to learn so i can make an informed decision about how to go about this install. I can install the hardware no worries, im good mechanically, but the wiring confuses me. After searching heaps, it seems there is very little on what needs to be done to the stock H/U or added (such as Hi-Lo level converters) to a non premium sound system (ie SS) to make this sort of install possible.
Some advice on what sort of amp i need would also be appreciated!

Thanks for any help,

Shaun.

[HCVP]

Hi Shaun,

First off you should devise a budget of how much you would like to spend. I say this because if in the case that your budget wouldn't cover everything you want, or would mean spending less in certain area's, then sometimes it's best to just concentrate on a certain area.

To me the stock speakers actually aren't that bad. The biggest issue they have is that they are running in full range mode because they aren't being supported by a subwoofer. If you add a subwoofer and cut anything from say below 80hz from going to them, then this will take a lot of the load off them.
I'd advise to leaving the rear speakers out of the plan for the time being. They are very far from your ears, and are barely audible, even if upgraded. Also any money spent on replacing them, could mean the difference between an average subwoofer, or a great subwoofer, ect. Concentrate on your front stage and get it sounding the best you can. Rear speakers can be added later at any time should they be required for any reason.

Adding an external amplifier even for the stock speakers, will give you tuning capabilities beyond what your factory head unit is capable off, such as being able to adjust the hi and low pass filters, which is critical especially when you don't want to be running your speakers in full pass.

[shaunve]

Thanks mate. Im hopeless with budgets; probably around a grand would be ok, but i can do it in stages so id like good quality stuff and a couple of hundred here and there is ok.

EDIT. I just discovered there may not be any need to to convert the signals from the HU, as i can get a JL amp that has a built in converter (DC offset i think its called), and i like the JL stuff. I think ill bite the bullet and get a 5 channel amp, but shoult i get 6 or 6.5 inch splits for the front of the VE (and the back for that matter)? And is it worth spending the extra $150 or so to get the 300w splits or would the 200w suffice?

Thanks,

Shaun.

[HCVP]

The power handling of a speaker is pretty much irrelevant. The amount of power a speakers voice coil can handle before it burns out is no indication of how it will sound, neither are specs on paper.

6 or 6.5 were only talking half an inch. Most manafactuer's tend to lean towards 6.5'' speakers anyway.

I wouldn't suggest getting a 5 ch amp. The channel used for the sub on most 5 ch amps is usually fairly low powered. As sub woofers require more power than anything else, it's best to have a bit of head room here. Plus the remaining channels are pretty much pointless unless you want to either power the rear speakers (pointless) or bridge the channels together to provide extra power to the fronts. In either case there's better ( and cheaper) ways of going about it. Remember any money saved in one area, can be directed to another area where it's likely to make far more of a difference.

I'd begin with a 4 channel amp. A 4 channel amp is more flexible and gives you 3 options really.

- Powering 4 speakers
- Powering 2 speakers and a sub
- Powering 2 speakers in bridged mode

So you could add a sub for the time being, and power the front speakers. I suggest sticking with the factory speakers for now, and seeing how they perform with the addition of a subwoofer, and some additional tuning that currently is available due to your head unit.

With the subwoofer added, and an amp in place, then your front stage is just a drop in replacement away. So you would have a fairly big improvement over the stock sound, and then you could take your time with selecting replacement front speakers.

My advice with regards to choosing both speakers, and subwoofers, is to listen to a few set's around the price you are wanting to spend, and then listen to some that are more expensive. I say this because just because something cost's twice as much, doesn't mean it is, or will sound, twice as good. So you might find that you only need to spend a certain amount on a pair of speakers to be happy, and that spending any more turns out to be a lot spent, for what seems like very little gain.

But to me the most important part of the build is going to be the subwoofer. A lot of people have the wrong idea of subwoofers, and tend to associate them with more younger people who like to drive through residential areas at 2 in the morning. Until you hear a quality subwoofer carefully picked for the application, and correctly tuned in the right enclosure, then it's hard to describe the differences you're likely to hear.

Bare i mind the size of the vehicle, you might need a larger subwoofer setup than you think as well.

[shaunve]

Thats good advice, thanks very much for that. I was really balking at getting a 5 channel amp anyway; it seemed like overkill for my application. I like the idea of using a 4 channel to power the fronts and sub and running the rears off the HU. I pulled the front and rear speakers out yesterday and discovered that 6 inch replacements will fit in the factory spots without modification which i was happy about. Also, after listening to the JL, Alpine and Pioneer speakers, there is a huge difference in sound out of each of them. I actually liked the Alpine best, but thats just me. I love the little JL 4 channel amp; it'll fit nicely under the seat.

Shaun.

[HCVP]

Which Alpine model did you like the sound of ?

Remember when auditioning a few things can have an impact -

- The source. Quite often when you ask to hear a set of speakers on a demo board, the operator will immediately run them off the best sounding deck on the board.

- Tuning. You never know if someone has walked past and played around with the settings. I'm guilty of doing it myself, all though i believe it was for the better. If something has been tuned incorrectly it's going to have a big impact, and can even make a better set of speakers sound poorer. Ask them to switch between different head units during the test, and ask them questions like what are the hi and low pass filters set at.

- Amplifiers. Generally if you want your display board to sound the best, then your going to want to use the best components you have available. Pay close attention to what amplifiers are being used to power the speakers and subwoofers used on the board. Speakers will vary in their effeciency ratings, and some speakers will require more power than others to sound their best. This doesn't mean they are better or worse, just make sure the components you have in mind will work well together, and will ultimately fall within your budget.

[shaunve]

Yeah, i dont know which model Alpine speakers they were; i just know they were $359 @ JB Hi-Fi and the JL's (C2600) were $399.
Im probably going to get the JL XD400/4 amp for around $370 delivered and the two sets of speakers (C2600 & C2600X) for around $200 and $170 respectively. I know the rears are not imperative, but i may as well complete the lot at once. I dont know what sub ill get yet; id love to find a slimline that i could fit under the seat or something, but i dont think they're the best quality. Its a bit of a pain to fit in the wagon and still keep it out of the way when i put surfboards or a mountain bike in the back.
Shaun.

[HCVP]

$200 front speakers and $170 speakers vs $370 front speakers.....It's your call, but your pissing your money up the wall.

[shaunve]

Well what front speakers could you recommend? Im happy to spend more on the fronts, its just that i liked the sound of the JL's and there appeared to be nothing that matched them at JB Hi-Fi. The JL's also have a smaller tweeter than many others so that might be good for mounting in the factory position.
JB is the only place around me where i can go and listen to them, as every other car audio store in my area has closed down, so its difficult to compare. I'd like to spend more on the higher end JL's but they only come in 6.5" diameter and i really dont want to modify the standard 6" mounting position in the doors. Ill spend $400 on front speakers no problem. Is it better to use the same brand amp, speakers and sub or can you mix and match? I imagine JL or Pioneer etc made their speakers to perform best with their amps and other equipment.

Also, is it possible to mount a sub in the spare tyre well if i make a custom box? Sorry for the noob question, but does the sub have to be exposed in order to function correctly, or will the base travel through seats or the spare wheel cover etc and be heard without a problem. If i decide to put the sub in there, i was just wondering if i'd have to cut a hole in the boot floor of the Sportwagon and expose the sub at all.

Thanks again for the advice,

Shaun.

[HCVP]

Mounting new speakers straight into the old mounting bracket will give you the worse performance, and can in fact begin to be a waste of money beyond a certain point. A cheaper speaker with a really good installation will sound better than a more expensive speaker with an average or poor installation.

Your much better off fabricating a new MDF mounting ring. Mount the ring to the door and use a good amount of silicone to ensure it will be completely airtight. If you do choose to do this make sure you don't put your speakers anywhere near the silicone until it has completely cured and let off all it's toxin's.

If you can't build MDF rings they can be purchased for like $10 a pair. I tend to just purchase them when doing installs for people unless i need something in particular or i'm trying to direct the speaker or alter it's depth.

One thing about the VE's, is they can actually benifit from using a coaxial speaker, as aposed to a split system. In reality it's best to have the sound come from a single point. Most factory mounting positions don't allow you to do this because they are too low in the door, and high frequencies from the tweeter as you could imagine would not sound ideal coming from down around your feet. ( their can be exceptions though )

In line to your ear is the best, but with a little bit of upward angling you can compensate for this. Their are quite a few manafactuer's of high end coxials and full range drivers, but unfortunately you won't be able to audition. But it's fair to say that spending similar money on something a little "out of the box" and away from main stream manafactuer's, stores, and the general mark up associated, will reap far greater results.

You can in theory place a sub anywhere you like, seeing as it's frequencies are non directional. What it will come down to is the amount of available volume, and whether or not it's enough for the sub to perform in. The sub does not need to be exposed itself.

What are you DIY skill like? If a sub is really more of an inconvience , which sometimes it is, then their are other way's of getting reasonable low end response such as using larger full range drivers up front. Of course an 8'' driver won't have the same low fq ability as say a 10 or a 12'', but what you lose in cone surface area you re-gain by having the speaker closer to you.

Idea's like this might sound a bit off putting, but if you factor in the money saved from not having a subwoofer, you can get an equally good, if not better sounding system for similar money, could even cost you less, even if you had to pay a store somewhere to do a bit of the work for you. Then you have no subwoofers, enclosures, no extra wiring ect. Any modifications performed under the door trim will of course go unseen.

[shaunve]

My DIY skills are good, it's just the wiring that I'll have trouble with. Id like to devise a system without a sub, as it'll get in the way of daily use I'm sure. I really don't want to cut the doors at all, but would be happy to fabricate some mdf mounts for speaker installs as long as the standard trim remains etc.
What's the reason behind the mdf being better than the factory plastic mounts? If I make the mounts, at least I could go with larger woofers and that would open up the possibility of getting better quality speakers. I'll install sound deadening in the doors too.
Shaun.