VT II Berlina - Stockin to Rockin - Final advice before purchasing

[cragv]

Hey guys, I'm just about to do my first major install of a car audio system. Our newly-purchased VT is running a stock Berlina system (Eurovox CD/Cass. head unit, front splits, rear door co-ax), and we want better sound!

With roughly $1k to spend, here's what I'm thinking of doing:

Head Unit: Kenwood KDC-MP5033U Car CD Tuner with USB (2 Pre-outs) ~$260
Front: Jaycar Precision Response Kevlar 6.5" Splits - $130 (driven by Amp)
Rear: Stock, already in the rear doors (driven by head unit) $0
Amp: Jaycar Response Car Amp (4 X 100W) - $260 (possibly less for second hand if I find a compatible one)
Sub: 12" Jaycar Response or Pioneer TS-SW124D (pending sound test; will be driven by Amp via bridged channels) $200
Box: Anything pre-made to the correct size for whichever sub I get (I have no woodwork skills!) ~$50
Cabling: Will use existing, plus a cabling kit $40+/-; also extra drawers from eBay/JB/etc. to fill the remaining space the stock head-unit was using in the dash.
Cabling: Aerpro Holden Commodore Vt-Vx Wiring Harness $25 delivered
Sound deadening for both front doors $70 (not incl. in budget - will add later pending sound test)
Install: Self Installed $0
Total: ~$1000

I'm going to be wiring it up myself, with a couple of RDO's coming up. Have read many threads on this forum (and OCAU) regarding audio installs over the last week (spent ~8 hours reading, I reckon) and feel almost ready to give it a shot. I'm competent with taking things apart and putting back together (my Berlina's interior, hopefully!), and while doing this install will be removing a hands-free system the previous owner had in the car.

To the questions:
- Thinking in terms of sound quality, considering I listen to rap and rock/pop mostly, would you do anything differently in the above setup?
- Importantly, is my Amp and splits/sub wattage correct? It's entirely possible (even likely) I've confused the bridging capacity of this Amp with wanting to use it for my front splits as well as the sub..
- I've drawn my wiring down on paper and am mostly happy with what I'm going to be doing. What gauge wire should I be using for my Amp ground, and is the VT's Battery and Block/Chassis grounding already good enough without an upgrade?
- Any famous last words before I buy everything next week?

Thanks!

[StoneX]

Don't get the Pioneer slimline sub unless you absolutely NEED a slim sub, go for the cheap and better TS-W306C.

Get the wiring harness from Autobarn, no waiting and cheaper (I think).

No comment on the rest of the gear... I learnt the hard way that you should buy good stuff to begin with because you'll end up replacing cheap stuff anyway.

Amp is fine to run splits and bridge channels 3&4 to a sub.

You'd probably only need 8ga for that one amp, but if you think there is any chance you'll upgrade, just put 4ga in first go. I put 2ga in mine and now have to pull it out to put 0ga in... Not looking forward to it.

[Tasmaniak]

I put 2ga in mine and now have to pull it out to put 0ga in... Not looking forward to it.

After removing the neccessary trim, a little trick I learnt was tape the new cable to the end in the boot...not the bonnet and then drag it through backwards. I've noticed doing it this way seems to make going up in cable size becomes just that little bit easier.

[cragv]

Don't get the Pioneer slimline sub unless you absolutely NEED a slim sub, go for the cheap and better TS-W306C.

Get the wiring harness from Autobarn, no waiting and cheaper (I think).

No comment on the rest of the gear... I learnt the hard way that you should buy good stuff to begin with because you'll end up replacing cheap stuff anyway.

Amp is fine to run splits and bridge channels 3&4 to a sub.

You'd probably only need 8ga for that one amp, but if you think there is any chance you'll upgrade, just put 4ga in first go. I put 2ga in mine and now have to pull it out to put 0ga in... Not looking forward to it.

Thanks for the feedback

I didn't realise the Pioneer was a slim sub... I'm happy with the Jaycar so I'll stick with that then. The harness I have no problems with getting from anyware, so that's all good.

Regarding the rest of the 'cheap' gear, this is my budget, and will likely not be upgrading any of it ever in this car. Budget will need to stretch in future to other things unrelated to the vehicle, so I'm fitting in whatever needs doing in one shot now.

Thanks for the amp reassurance, too. I'll make sure I run 4ga by default, and then won't have to worry about it either way.

Cheers

[cragv]

Hey StoneX I've been thinking more about what you said - I think you're right about cheap gear.

At the moment, She Who Must Be Obeyed is against a sub in the boot due to the amount of space it takes up (I made a cardboard enclosure to spec, from a box, to show her), so it looks like I'm going down the quality splits route instead.

With about ~$500 to spend on a decent set of 6" splits, I'm trying to make a shortlist of what I need to listen to before buying.

Any suggestions? Thanks

[les82]

you know auto barn usually sell pioneer subs in a box for around the $100 mark from time to time

[Tasmaniak]

cragv, this is something I don't mornally suggest to people.

Why not split your money up a little differently.

Headunit $260
Jaycar 4 channel amplifier $300
6.5" splits $300...or simply get the Jaycar splits and save yourself about $150 and then factor in your cabling.
Jaycar 6x9s $140

Using 6x9s in the rear parcel shelf is going to bring up the level of bass provided to you. Not quite as good as a sub but not as bad as stock. You can expect the performance of a low poowered 10" sub out of a pair 6x9s.

[cragv]

Hmm thanks for the info. That certainly is food for thought, especially when you put it like that (10" low-powered sub being roughly equiv. to amped 6x9s).

It has been suggested to me also to check out this and this, maybe installing them a few months down the track. That said, I know we'd both be happier with good sound and no boot space sacrifice (sports gear regularly finds its way into this boot).

So if I go ahead with the Jaycar gear I know I'm not making it anywhere near audiophile levels of SQ, but with the 6x9s and the front splits amped up, it should go pretty well, especially when considering I'm upgrading from stock.

Last question then, what amp? 4x50W or 4x100W? And if the 4x50W will suffice, what's the difference between the 4x 50W amp and the 4x 50W head unit?

Thanks

[Tasmaniak]

I would strongly recommend using the 4x100 so as not to underpower the speakers. The 4x50Amp and the 4x50HU is quite simply this...the 4x50 amp is actually 4x50 where as the HU is closer to 4x15 then anything.

With that being said you won't get me to say anything nice about Pioneer....thats just my personal opinion

[cragv]

Ok thanks for that. Assuming I went with the Jaycar 6.5" splits (~60WRMS? -guessing) and 6x9s (80WRMS), I understand the 4x 100W amp might be better matched to these speakers. Importantly, what's the preferred balance when not wanting to hurt the components -> bigger amp than speakers (in watts), or the other way round?

I'll happily buy the 4x 100W amp if it's a better choice for these speakers, but will buy the 4x 50W amp instead if any bigger is unnecessary.

Thanks again for help It's really, really appreciated.

[StoneX]

You can always make the sub box removable to keep The Boss happy

[wrx884]

or mayb the slim line pioneer sub isnt a bad idea u can always make a sub box 2 the specs expanding the length n width more and subtracting wat u added on length n width from ur depth? as long as its made 2 the specs it'll still work how its meant 2, VT boots r still fairly big with a single sub neways tho

[cragv]

Yeah you'd think, wouldn't you?

The removable sub idea got a 'no' as well, but that's okay. I'm going to make the best I can with what I've got.


Am still considering some high quality splits like the Alpine X's, maybe even instead of using 6x9s at all. Eventually I might make a long slim sub box or something, but for now, we'll see what we can do.

Cheers for the advice

[wrx884]

how much sports stuff do u chuck in there? if u want some idea how much room i got in my boot i can fit a lawn mower with the handle folded over a whipper snipper and 2 5 litre fuel cans in my boot lol ive also had 4 full cricket bags full of gear in my boot with the sub b4 2 lol

[JBDrifter]

what's the difference between the 4x 50W amp and the 4x 50W head unit?

Thanks

Just to clarify a little so you have a better understanding... the HU 4x50W is Max Wattage, whereas the amp 4x50W is RMS wattage. The RMS wattage is what you always need to be looking for in amps, because it is far closer to the actual output of the amp. So don't compare the Jaycar 4x100W amp with a BOSS amp labelled as a 1000W amp! BOSS is one of those crap brands that lures in it's customers with big numbers printed on their boxes, but you need to know that although it may hit 1000W at times, that's only the max wattage... and it's actual output will be far less than that.

Now as far as powering your speakers go, you should be fairly safe using the 4x100Wrms amp. In normal conditions you'll only be using a fraction of that anyway. It will only ever get to around 4x100Wrms when the amp is receiving a perfect 14.4VDC supply from the battery, grounds are perfect, and you are pumping the system as loud as possible. But if all this does happen you do run the risk of overpowering the speakers and doing damage. There is no risk in under powering them, but then you will not be using the speakers to their full potential.
I used to use my Jaycar 4x100Wrms amp to power a set of little 4" Kicker coax's in my old car. 100Wrms was definitely far too much power for the little speakers but they never skipped a beat, so yeah from my experiences I would say that you should have no problems using the bigger amp to power your speakers. I don't take responsibility though if you decide to use that amp and things go wrong, just letting you know what I have learnt from my experiences. Also take note that the new Jaycar amps are actually 4x130Wrms, and not 4x100Wrms like the older model that I was using, and just started using again to power my sub.

Suggestions on good quality splits for not too many dollars... If you were going to get Alpine's, the Type X range is their better quality speaker, and the one to go for. But I'd personally look at brands like Focal, MB Quarts, Boston Acoustics, Rockford Fosgate etc. Shop around and you should be able to find a lower range set of speakers for around $350-400. Not sure where Macleod is, but if you're ever driving up the Nepean Hwy through (I think) the Brighton area, keep a look out for the shop called Stylin. They actually stock Alpine, Focal, Boston and MB Quarts. So it may be a good place to compare some of the better gear that you wont find in stores like JB and Autobahn.

[cragv]

Sweet, thanks for the advice mate I'll head down to Stylin at Brighton (~40km away ) and will check out the speakers, maybe next weekend or if I take a day in lieu next week.

RE: the HU vs amp wattage, I hadn't realised the head units' wattage was peak and not the sustained potential/RMS. Still making up my mind between 4x50W and 4x100/130W Jaycar amps. We'll see what splits I end up choosing first, and will go from there.

Thanks again

[StoneX]

Also look at Boston if you want extra bass from your splits.

[garfa]

I would strongly recommend using the 4x100 so as not to underpower the speakers. The 4x50Amp and the 4x50HU is quite simply this...the 4x50 amp is actually 4x50 where as the HU is closer to 4x15 then anything.

With that being said you won't get me to say anything nice about Pioneer....thats just my personal opinion

everyone do not forget the 4x100 is 4x130W. its a rather big jump. burn 60W speakers melt those coils!
also agreed with the pioneer comment. installed a few amps. ergonomic and common sence are not too words pioneer have in their corporate dictionary.

[StoneX]

130W vs 100W is not a big difference. If the gains are set correctly there should be no issue with melting coils.

Explain your comment about "ergonomics and common sence" regarding Pioneer amps... They're the same as virtually every other amp. How does an amp have good or bad ergonomics anyway????

[wrx884]

130W vs 100W is not a big difference. If the gains are set correctly there should be no issue with melting coils.

Explain your comment about "ergonomics and common sence" regarding Pioneer amps... They're the same as virtually every other amp. How does an amp have good or bad ergonomics anyway????

yer id like 2 know wat they mean by this also?

[garfa]

just stiring you stone.
i just do not like pioneers mounting system for their amps (exposed lugs). i find the gains harder to adjust than most of the other amps i have tuned. and also i just think most of their amps look tacky.

[StoneX]

I won't argue about the looks

[vt com]

those dual voice coil response subs go pretty hard for what they are? I have mine running from 600 rms@2ohm in a 45l sealed box, I used to have it running at 2ohm from a jaycar 4x100rms amp with a set of pioneer kevlar splits and still went hard.

[wrx884]

just stiring you stone.
i just do not like pioneers mounting system for their amps (exposed lugs). i find the gains harder to adjust than most of the other amps i have tuned. and also i just think most of their amps look tacky.

i must agree the gains r a pain to adjust compared 2 others lol and they r alot bulky lookin 2 well i think mine r a lil but cant complain about much else tho

[StoneX]

I don't understand how gains can be more difficult to set... It's just a pot, like all other amps. Start at minimum and work your way up until distortion, turn it back a bit.... Done. No different to any other amp.