Choosing Subwoofers
Hi Guys,
I'm still going with my system planning, and amongst many items, I've found choosing a subwoofer (well, two to be precise) to be difficult.
The information across this forum and Mobile Electronics forum isn't very simple. I get the impression that alot of people are basing their recommendations of what subwoofer someone should get on brand preference and price, and rarely on all the other specs of a subwoofer.
Should this be the way to choose? Or should you take inot account factors such as
Diameter: XX inches
Nominal impedance: XX ohms
Nominal Power handling: XXX WRMS
Maximum Power handling: XXX Watts
Efficiency: XXdB SPL @ 1W
Qts: xxx
Fs: XXXHz
Vas: XXX litres
Xmax: XXX mm
Frequency Response: XXHz to XXXHz
Anything else?
Should one look at this information (or take it with a grain of salt as it's usually the manufacturer's marketing department putting a spin on it so can't always be trusted?) when deciding on a sub?
With my research, I was looking at Kicker CompVR 12", Pioneer TS-W307D4 12", Alpine Type R 12", and a couple of others. In the end, their specs all seemed so close, that I was thinking of going with price, being I think the Pioneer, a brand that I like anyway, but I'm trying to determine if it is still worth shelling out more for another make/model.
I'm looking to put two in the boot of a VZ, but I'm not after SPL, more quality sound (but not SQ competition). Should I look for a sub that meets any certain specs as specified above? I just haven't seen any real conversation getting into that sort of detail, just people saying "Get the Kicker, it goes so much harder than the Type R" but not explaining why, leading me to believe they are brand whores - or, it's what they bought and are trying to justify it to themselves.
I also never see any discussion regarding the build materials - does this matter? Or is it a given that if it meets certain specs, then chances are it will be made from Carbon this and Kevlar that?
Sorry for a boring thread.
For example, why would one pay $250 for a Jaycar Precision response 12":
• Diameter: 12"
• Nominal impedance: 4 ohms
• Power handling: 300WRMS
• Efficiency: 86dB SPL @ 1W
• Qts: 0.42
• Fs: 25.8Hz
• Vas: 72.5 litres
When you could pay $130 for a Pioneer TS-W307D4
Diameter: 12"
Nominal impedance: 2 or 8 ohms (2 x 4 ohms DVC)
Power handling: 400WRMS
Efficiency: 89dB SPL @ 1W
Qts: 0.52
Fs: 34.8Hz
Vas: 40.9 litres
Frequency Response: 18 ~ 500 Hz
Xmax = 9.4mm
unfortunately not all the same info is available for both, but I'm sure you get the point.
If I gave you the specs of two subs, would that be enough to determine which is more suitable/preferred, or would you need to know the brand as it influences decisions?
Ideally, you should use your ears to compare. Specification won't simply tell you how it will sound. I agree most people will recommend brands that THEY prefer and in many cases, they haven't even heard them and are just regurgitating what they've hear or read elsewhere.
You need to decide how much space you want to sacrifice, how much money you want to spend, if you already have an amplifier you need to buy according to it's power rating, and what styles of music you listen to. From there, you can round down to what size sub, what type of enclosure and what price range which will give you a few subs to then audition.
Build material does matter but i'm not so sure it is all that evident for sub-bass. Paper, plastic, metal, and various other materials are much more likely to have different sound characteristics in full range speakers.
Why do you want two subs? Usually, you can buy one much better sounding sub for the same price as two subs.
People would USUALLY spend $250 over $130 in that case because someone else has told them the Jaycar is better or they've listened and thought the Jaycar sounded better. Who knows. Why did I buy $849 RRP subs when I could get $130 Pioneer subs? Because they sound a hell of a lot better and play a little louder... And they look niceOriginally Posted by Wacky
Thanks for the reply StoneX. I was looking at 2 for balance I guess, plus hopefully being able to get the result I want without having to buy an expensive one. I'm sure for what i want and what I listne to, than 1 would be enough, and it is still an option.
When you listen to a sub, what are you actually listening for ? With other speakers, I listen for clarity of the music, distortion and crackling (which is a bit of the distortion anyway). When I've listended to subs alone, they mostly sounded similar, though I noticed some rattled more a higher volumes than others.
Is there a test CD or something (a recommended piece of music) that you should take to a store to play through subs only to give a good idea of the quality? I am very aware that something that sounds good to me might sound **** to others, but it's me I'm buying it for.
Certainly looks are not a factor for me...the sub will be in the boot, and it's not a show piece. It's a shame jaycar (at least at Gore Hill) don't have their subs set up anymore for listening to.
I found this article after posting the first post - still reading through it, but it explains alot about the specs of subs and what is important and what isn't, and what manufacturers might suggest and whether they are full of it or not
How to Buy a Subwoofer
Well, honestly, i've always bought on reputation and the opinion of others since i'm in an area that I couldn't find the brands I wanted to hear.
I've used several different subs now and they do sound different but it takes some time to notice the difference. Some are more responsive, you can hear them keep up with the music more accurately, some can go louder and still sound great, some will go loud but don't seem to keep control of the sound like other... I guess you need to listen to the music you would listen to most often as your demo material. Also, in stores subs don't sound anything like they do in cars. So that makes it even harder.
Do you know anyone else with subs? Do you go to car club meeting or anything? Car audio comps? Those are great places to demo subs in cars.
That website should give you a pretty good indication of what to look for mate, but remember to take it all the specs with a grain of salt... there's no real 'standard' to testing speakers so you don't know exactly what the conditions are when the specs were recorded. Unfortunately, sometimes the reputation of the speaker can give you more of an idea of the quality of it than the listed specs. My suggestion is to read into as many opinions as you can, maybe go check out mobile electronics australia and see what they are recommending there.
StoneX: what sort of subs you running now mate? Weren't you running IDMAX a while back? Thinking of one for my next sub, opinions?
Yeah, I have 2 IDMax's. Getting new fiberglass boxes made right now for them as they were in crappy prefab boxes before.
If you're after SQ, apparently, the Morel Ultimo just won SQ sub of the year award or something. I've never heard it though.
LS-EXUAL
You take a $200 Pioneer sub, and you take a sub of the same diameter and wattage rms, but is worth $1000, sure, they will both pump bass, but alot of the time, the more expensive ones (providing they are a decent brand) are going to give you better clarity etc.
You get what you pay for. I'd love a full Focal set up in my car. Or an Ozaudio set up.
*scratches chin* tempting, but that morel will most probably be fair outta my price range. I'll probably be looking at a new Idq, 2nd hand IDmax, or maybe a boston g5 or something. Want to spend less than $500.
Anyway, sorry for the thread hi-jack!
Hi-jack away !
Thanks for all the feedback guys. It sounds to me like I should create myself a shortlist of decent subs (going by specs and brands, assuming a reputable brand usually means decent build quality) and try and get a listen to them.
I'm not an audiophile, not going in comps, so I might give something under $300 a go for a single (or two for same total - but taking StoneX's advice and maybe just get one good one), and see how it goes - I'll probably be getting Jaycar amps, so unless I get compelling reason to go something else after listening to them, I might just get one of their 12" subs.
Oh well, I hope the ramblings haven't been too boring, and help someone else in the future too !
Thanks guys ! If you have any more input or thoughts, please pipe up, I'm all ears !
bezz... There's a G5 on MEA for $380 right now. It was in a show install so it's probably in great condition.
argh hooray for timing. I'd snap it up in an instant but I got to buy the gf's 21st present this week...
edit: just checked it out, i need a dvc 4+4ohm, now i dont feel so bad. Cheers for the heads up tho mate
Last edited by bezz; 02-04-2008 at 08:30 PM.
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