An amp to run my splits?

[acarmody]

I currently have a set of Pioneer TS-C1625 6.5" splits in my car being run off a Alpine MRP-F250 amp (also powering 6x9"s). This amp only puts out 40wrms, so obviously these 60wrms splits aren't reaching their full potential.

For Christmas I picked myself up a Pioneer GM-3300T amp from WOW for $99, it runs at 60wrms x 2 at 4ohm so I thought this would run my splits great. But when I got home I noticed that it doesn't have HPF or a variable crossover frequency control. So what I want to know is if this amp is gonna make my splits waste power trying to make bass or will it be alright. Also are there any other amps that are fairy cheap that would be better?

-Cheers, Adrian

[holdenboy]

You could use that amp, depending on what head-unit you have and whether or not it has HPFs built in. Your splits wont like anything under the 60hz region, this will lower how loud they will play without distorting. It really depends on what youre after.......if its pure volume and you already have a sub then HPFs are basically your only option. Then again if you dont have a sub or your after sound quality over volume HPFs should be set to a minimum (20-35hz), if it all.

Its always a good practice to "overpower" your speakers a little, like if theyre rated at 60wrms (in your case) then something with 70-80wrms per channel will be ideal.

[2LOUD2OLD]

you are not going to be able to hear any difference with the extra 20WRMS, and
you are correct that the amp has no HPF only LPF. what HU do you have? you might be able to set the HPF there

[acarmody]

My H/U is a Kenwood KDC-X8006U. I am right now looking at the H/U manual and yes i can adjust the front high pass filter, to 40/60/80/100/120/150/180/220Hz. So do I just set it here and it will be all sweet? Also what is a good value to set it?

And 2LOUD2OLD what do you mean I won't hear the extra 20WRMS. A stock H/U only puts out 15 or so WRMS while my current amp puts out 40WRMS and I can certainly tell the difference.


-Adrian

[holdenboy]

Yep, install the Pioneer amp and set the HPF on the h/u to between 40-100hz, i'd say the 60hz mark will give good results, but best try each one.

[2LOUD2OLD]

there really needs to be a significant increase in power in order to tell a difference, going from 15WRMS to 40WRMS is over double the power, increasing by another 20WRMS is not going to give you any huge audible difference if you can hear one at all. however seeing as you have already bought the pioneer you might as well use it, or why not bridge the alpine giving you 100WRMS, then you will hear a difference

[acarmody]

there really needs to be a significant increase in power in order to tell a difference, going from 15WRMS to 40WRMS is over double the power, increasing by another 20WRMS is not going to give you any huge audible difference if you can hear one at all. however seeing as you have already bought the pioneer you might as well use it, or why not bridge the alpine giving you 100WRMS, then you will hear a difference

Putting 100WRMS into speakers only designed to take 60WRMS is one sure fire way of blowing the crap out of them.

Would give me an excuse to buy some really good ones though.

[2LOUD2OLD]

umm no, its called headroom, if you set your gains correctly you will have no problems.
I am currently running 250WRMS into my splits which are rated at 100WRMS, I will soon be increasing this to 550WRMS per side when I get my 4 channel repaired.
60W speakers running off 100WRMS sounds like a good match to me

[acarmody]

Whats the point of putting 550WRMS into speakers that are still only going to put out 100WRMS.

But I have taken some of your advice into consideration and I am thinking of bridging the MRP-F250 into 100WRMS x 2. A audio store close to me has a set of PolkAudio splits rated at 100WRMS on sale for $250 down from $600 (ex-display). Should be fun . Then I can take my Pioneer splits and put them in the rear doors for more fun, and use the Pioneer amp to power these.

-Adrian

[holdenboy]

Sounds like a plan.....you'll like the Polk splits, very decent speakers (especially for that money).

Trust us when we say headroom is nearly always a good thing, you have to remember also an amp is rated at 14.4v and at a fixed impedance, unless stated otherwise. (for example - 100wrms x 2, 14.4v 4 ohm) This power figure is somewhat unrealistic in car with speakers that have an impedance that rises and falls constantly. Not to mention the 14.4v figure. What this means is your 100wrms/ch. amp puts out considerably less than 100wrms in the real world, running real speakers.

[acarmody]

Ah yes I get that, thanks.

Yes these PolkAudio splits are really calling me. They should provide me with some nice clarity and quality, which is what I am really after. I don't drive around with the goal of blowing the eardrums of the driver in the next car (or mine for that matter).

-Adrian

[2LOUD2OLD]

speakers dont put out power amps do, the rating is how much power the speaker can handle, however headroom is a very good thing to have. As mentioned your amp will not produce its max power all the time. It also means that your amp doesnt have to work as hard and wont be as likely to overheat.

[acarmody]

So do you think it would be worthwhile getting the PolkAudio splits after all? I think they were MOMO series, but I'm not quite sure. Will fnd out tomorrow. Or do you think the Pioneer's will be just as good if I bridge the amp and give them 2x100WRMS?

-Adrian

[2LOUD2OLD]

well i would have a listen to them first, only your ears will be able to make that decision

[acarmody]

I just picked up the speakers today, a ex-demo set of PolkAudio MOMO MMC6500 and for only $259.

Can't wait until I get them installed. But now I will probably need a amp thats going to put out 150WRMS as the speakers can handle 125WRMS. Ahh happy days.

-Adrian

Edit: Can anyone explain this single/dual input stuff that the crossover has on it?

[2LOUD2OLD]

not knowing the speakers i will take a guess and say it allows for bi-amping
this means that you use 2 channels per side to run the splits, 1 channel per speaker
this allows for more flexible tuning and more power to the speakers, it is pretty much a cross between active and passive. With bi-amping the most useful feature is the ability to use the crossover while still being able to individually set time alignment for each speaker.
just checked the polk website, yes the momo's are bi-ampable

[acarmody]

Do you reackon a Cadence ZRS-1502 amp might do a decent job of powering these splits.

ZRS-1502
2 CHANNEL HIGH POWER STEREO AMPLIFIER

SPECIFICATIONS:
4 Ohm RMS Power: 2 x 150 Watts @ 13.8 Volts
2 Ohm RMS Power: 2 x 300 Watts @ 13.8 Volts
4 Ohm Mono RMS Power: 1 x 600 Watts @ 13.8 Volts
Frequency Response: 10Hz - 40KHz
Channel Seperation: >65 dB
S/N Ratio: >100 db
Damping Factor: >200 @ 100Hz
Minimum THD: <0.044%
Input Voltage: 200 mV - 8 Volts
Dimensions: 15" x 9.4" x 2.4"
FEATURES:

High Speed Mosfet Power Supply
Bi-Polar Japanese Sanken Output Devices
Copper Rail PCB Architecture
24 dB Crossover Circuitry
Fully Adjustable Low/High Pass Crossover
High Pass Crossover: 50Hz - 500Hz
Low Pass Crossover: 50Hz - 150Hz
Bass Boost Equalization: 0-18db @ 45Hz
Lucite Encapsulated Large 4 Gauge Terminals
Soft Start Mute & Delay
Adjustable Phase Control
2 Year Warranty



Notice that all the power ratings are at 13.8V and not 14.4V.

Oh and the splits are rated to 125WRMS so 150WRMS amp should do the trick, wouldn't it? Also I like the amount of brigded power this thing puts out, just in case I feel like more bass later .

Also since I will be putting the Pioneer splits (rated at 60WRMS) in the rear door, should I use the Pioneer GM-3300T (60WRMS) amp, or continue to use the Alpine 4-channel amp bridged (100WRMS)? I don't know if I want to much power going to the rear door splits because I want the really good Polk speaker to provide most off the music with lots of clarity.

-Adrian

[Vg-ute-mad]

Sorry to hijack!

I have a quick question.... Bridging splits would produce less sound quality wouldn't it? As it would be in mono?

[2LOUD2OLD]

yes you would lose stereo imaging if you bridged the splits, you would also lose the ability to set the balance with left and right, if you had a suitabel HU you would also lose the ability to set time alignment

as for the Cadence amp I havent had any experience with them but the power is suitable
why are you considering this amp and what is your budget, perhaps I could suggest some other options for amps
if you ended up feeling like you want more bass your going to be much better off getting a sub, your not going to get any kind of sub bass out of those speakers

as for your rear speakers it probbaly wont matter a great deal which amps you use as you will most likely be fading the sound in favour of the front speakers anyway. I personally dont like rear speakers at all and dont run any as I find it draws the sound stage backwards, but seeing as you have the gear just go with whatever amp you prefer to look of I guess seeing as they are of similar quality

[acarmody]

The Cadence amp I can get for $300 which is way cheaper than RRP. I'm just having some good luck with ex-demo gear. And what I meant about the bass is that later on if I want more bass than the 600WRMS I already have, than I can get a different amp to power the splits and use this amp to give me 600WRMS more bass.
Also another reason I wouldn't mind this amp is that it is identical looking to my other Cadence amp, so my boot would look rather tidy, also sets me up for a custom install.

Also the other reason I like the Cadence ZRS-1502 is because the ZRS series are supposed to be some very good amps that put out very good sound quality.

[2LOUD2OLD]

sounds like a winner then

[acarmody]

I might be having another chnge of plans, and I would like some input on the idea. I was talking to the guy ate JB who gave me the price on that Cadence ZRS-1502 said today that I could use my ZRS-7504 (75W x 4 at 4OHM, 150W x 4 at 2 OHM, 150W x 2 (bridged) at 4OHM) to power my splits, and I could get a ZRS-6000D mono for $400.
This is $100 more but would give me a dedicted mono to run subs instead of bridging a 4-channel, and also give me an extra 100WRMS. Also it woud give me better subwoofer wiring combinations. Like for instance I would like a L7 for my birthday, but I couldn't run it in stereo of my 4-channel.

But would the 300WRMS x 2, be too much power going to 125WRMS splits?

And would the extra $100 be worth it? And are there any othe mono's around the $400 that would be better?

Oh and 2LOUD2OLD if you see this, serious thanks for all your input so far! Thanks to everyone else too!

[2LOUD2OLD]

your splits will be fine with the power so long as the gains are set correctly, they will most likely love the extra power
what subs do you have? more importantly what voice coil config do they have? this is usually the biggest decider for a sub amp
Im not too sure on what is available in that price range for amps, maybe an Alpine MRP-M500, but dont be afraid of 2nd hand you could prob pick up an Alpine MRD-M1005, JL 500/1, Eclipse XA1000 around that price 2nd hand. just another option, but if you like the cadence amps and they suit your needs it should suit your purpose

no worries for the input mate

[acarmody]

For the subs I'm running 2 Pioneer TSW307D2, this all comes down to 2OHM. But hopefully early this year I want to upgrade them to a dual Kicker CompVR setup with the factort ported box. This run at 2OHM as well, so I would think this mono amp would be good.

[holdenboy]

If you can get the Kickers in dual 4 ohm coils you can wire them to give the amp a 1 ohm load (much better). The Pioneers by the look of it are dual 2s, so basically yeah, 2 ohm or .5.....most amps dont like .5 ohm haha