Remove Swirl Marks In Clear Coat

[jaffassv]

My paint has swirls in the clear coat thanks to the dealer machine buffing it. I've tried a mild polish which I thought would get rid of them as it said it would work. It didn't... so tried a cut and polish and it still has the swirls in it! Any ideas what I should do please? Thanks

[tonyve]

i had the same problem i used meguiars SWIRL X OR SCRATCH2.0 this may help you

[jaffassv]

i had the same problem i used meguiars SWIRL X OR SCRATCH2.0 this may help you

Applied by hand? Also did it work first time round? Cheers

[Bravotwozero]

You're not going to remove swirls by hand polishing. If you don't own a rotary or DA then take it to a detailer. Try this link to find a detailer in your area.

Detail Paradise

[toey@carfx]

basicly using megs swirl x wont remove the defects, it will only hide them. this will wash out eventually and the marks will be visible again.

going on what you have said you have holigrams (buffer trails) rather then swirls (spider webs). both of these will need machine polishing to perminetly remove. this you could do with a das6 pro kit from car care products. if that isnt for you then try james from auto glamour and get him to correct the paint for you.

trying to find a product that will fix your product is a bit hit and miss and this is where the das6 kit comes into its own as you get different grade pads and polish to mix and match to get the desired results. due to different manufacturers paint responding differently to polishing as well as different colours from the same brand responding differently, kind of makes a simple answer a bit harder to give. what i would do on a black holden is very different from a silver holden, and then you get the soft and sticky asian paints which are a whole new kettle of fish.

guess it really comes down to the results you desire and the budget you have to work with

[Preferred Car Care]

Toey is 100 % correct. A swirlx will just mask the problem. A full Paint Correction is required.

[jaffassv]

Any recommendations for a machine polisher?

[Car Care Products]

jaffassv, take a look here through the different DA Random Orbital Buffing Machines to see which pack best suits your needs and budget. Any of these will remove those holograms/and swirls in your paint.

[jaffassv]

I read that a detailer was using a DAS6 and it works well but can be time consuming and hard work compared to one of the Festool's?

[Bravotwozero]

If you're after something with forced rotation then get a Bosch GEX150T. $900 for a Festool is a bit ridiculous. Don't forget you still need pads and polishes. Can get pretty pricey.

[toey@carfx]

why is the festool rediculous? i have a shinex and a rotex and couldnt be happier with both of them. for me personally the deciding factor was the 3 year warrenty that they come with. in saying that i use them all the time.

for the home punter the das6 pro plus kit is all that is needed.

[Bravotwozero]

why is the festool rediculous? i have a shinex and a rotex and couldnt be happier with both of them. for me personally the deciding factor was the 3 year warrenty that they come with. in saying that i use them all the time.

for the home punter the das6 pro plus kit is all that is needed.

I believe he was talking about Festool DA's? Yes I think $900 for a Rotex is ridiculous. You're a detailer, the OP is not. Spending that much money on a machine for a weekend hack is also ridiculous.

Jaffa, if you do in fact want a rotary, I'd recommend a Makita 9227CB. On par with the Festool at half the price.

[jaffassv]

So what is the difference between the RO machines and the forced rotation ones?

[jaffassv]

Ok so have found a few that seem to get a good wrap:

Concours 900
DAS6

Or

Makita 9227?

[Bravotwozero]

Ok so have found a few that seem to get a good wrap:

Concours 900
DAS6

Or

Makita 9227?

Concours 900 and DAS6 are the exact same machine. A Makita 9227CB is a rotary not a DA. A forced rotation machine will have extra correcting capabilities. You can still use a machine with forced rotation as a DA, but trust me you'll soon get sick of how long it takes to get results with a DA.

The pros with the rotary is that removing swirls takes no time at all and you can fit smaller backing plates for smaller pads. Good for all the tricky spots you'd otherwise have to do by hand if you use a DA. The downside is there is a chance of burning through paint if you're careless. It is a small chance, but a chance nonetheless.

Personally I'd get the Bosch GEX150T. Half the price of the Fetsool!

[Car Care Products]

Concours 900 and DAS6 are the exact same machine. A Makita 9227CB is a rotary not a DA. A forced rotation machine will have extra correcting capabilities. You can still use a machine with forced rotation as a DA, but trust me you'll soon get sick of how long it takes to get results with a DA.

The pros with the rotary is that removing swirls takes no time at all and you can fit smaller backing plates for smaller pads. Good for all the tricky spots you'd otherwise have to do by hand if you use a DA. The downside is there is a chance of burning through paint if you're careless. It is a small chance, but a chance nonetheless.

Personally I'd get the Bosch GEX150T. Half the price of the Fetsool!

To add, the DAS6 Pro is one step above the GEX150T. As the GEX150T is only 600w. the DAS6 is / concours is 500w and the DAS6-PRO is 850w.. Very big difference in torque & power and most so the ability to be able to do things that little bit quicker without again leaving any swirls/holograms!

[Bravotwozero]

The Concours is actually 880w. I understand you're trying to sell your own gear but I don't know how you can say a DAS6 is a better machine than a GEX150T. There's more to a machine than its power output.

[jaffassv]

Hmm.... so rotary or RO? I know people can use RO to polish and then wax as well as it isn't as aggressive whereas you can't do that with a rotary? I'm such a noob sorry guys!

I just wanna get rid of these swirls, marks, spiderwebs, buffer trails lol whichever one it is.

And from a bit of study it can be pretty hard for pro's to get rid of that stuff with just a RO?

[jaffassv]

Concours 900: 880w - 8mm orbit - 6 inch plate RO machine

DAS6: 500w - 8mm orbit - 5 or 6 inch plate RO machine

DAS6 Pro: 850w - 8mm orbit - 5 or 6 inch plate RO machine

Bosch GEX150T: 600w - 4.5mm orbit? - size plate? RO?? Also why $200 dearer?

Makita 9227: 1200w - ?? - ??? Rotary

[Bravotwozero]

Don't think of the Bosch as being $200 more. Think of it as being half the price of a Festool Rotex 150. These two machines should not be compared to the DA's because both these machines have forced rotation whereas the DAS6/Concours 900 do not. But if you want to compare the price then I would say it might have something to do with the DAS-6/Concours being made in China whereas the Makita is not.

We can also determine that the Concours 900 and the DAS-6PRO are the SAME MACHINE. So really there isn't much point comparing the two against each other. It appears the only difference is the colour. Don't worry about the noob questions mate. We were all there at one stage or another.

I'm going to stick by my recommendation of the Makita GEX 150T. A rotary might not be the best option for you as you've never handled a machine before. I got rid of my DAS-6 a week after purchase and got the Bosch. Anyway it is up to you.

[Car Care Products]

You are correct and the wattage of a machine is certainly not the deciding factor; you should look at the orbit size, polishing motion, balance and also orbit or counter weight when looking at machines.

And we still go by our recommendation that a Random Orbital like the DAS6 is perfect for a beginner that has not used a polishing machine before - with well over 1,000 happy users it says a lot.

Just a couple of points for the record regarding the info above:

The Concours 900 and the DAS6-Pro are NOT the same machine, they are supplied by 2 different suppliers and I know for a fact that the DAS6-Pro has at least 3 or 4 components inside that the 900 does not, as we had it spec'd at the factory for improved safety/performance and Australian Standards. The DAS6-Pro has also proven itself for well over a year with excellent reliability as the original DAS6 has done for nearly 3 years - the Concours 900 has only been around 6 months.

As far as I know the Makita IS made in China, as we have been offered a similar machine by the actual factory. The Festool Shinex is made in Germany and after spending only 30 minutes polishing you WILL know the difference between the two rotary machines, let alone after 4 or 5 hours! - combined with a 3 year warranty and German made, it is like comparing a Kia to a BMW (yes they are both cars, but one does the job a little differently to the other)

[toey@carfx]

Bosch GEX150T: 600w - 4.5mm orbit? - size plate? RO?? Also why $200 dearer?

Makita 9227: 1200w - ?? - ??? Rotary

the bosch is basicly 2 machines in one. it is a random orbital but after flicking the switch it goes to forced rotation. that means it still has the jiggle like a ro but it always spins like a rotary. that means it can remove defects quicker then a ro but slower then a rotary but it is safer then a rotary because of the jiggle thing it does.

the makita is a rotary and in my eyes should be left alone by people new to machine polishing. a rotary is great at removing swirls and scratches but is hard to finish down with in unskilled hands. even most pros follow up the rotary with a ro stage.

my opinion would be to go with a ro for now and get comfortable with that as its a good way to learn the skills needed to polish. after that then look at getting a rotary as these things can cause damage really quick. they can jump and skip and take alot of effort to keep under control. with some practice its second nature but would be daunting as a first experiance with a machine.

will i recommend the bosch - no as i have never used it so cannot give any feedback to it.

i will recommend a festool rotex because i have one and think its great albeit a bit loud when in forced mode. it is probly more then most home punters want to spend but when you look at it as 2 machines its alot more practical then just getting a ro.

will i recommend the das6 pro as i have used this is the machine. i started out polishing with a das6 before the pro was out and the pro is even better. i got the kit and it came with everything needed to correct a few cars.

will i recommend the makita - no for 2 reasons. 1 its big and heavy and not very ergonomic. 2 its too steep of a learning curve for a noob and fear either you will be scared off from polishing after your first go with it or worse still do some damage to your paint.

i will recommend the festool shinex but again is probly too much for the home punter. its light, balanced and cofortable to use and quiet. i have this machine and have used it for hours on end with the most being 8hrs straight

will i rocommend the concourse- no. i have never used it so again i cant comment on it.

these may not be the answers you want but i wont recommend something i havent personally had used

[Bravotwozero]

the bosch is basicly 2 machines in one. it is a random orbital but after flicking the switch it goes to forced rotation. that means it still has the jiggle like a ro but it always spins like a rotary. that means it can remove defects quicker then a ro but slower then a rotary but it is safer then a rotary because of the jiggle thing it does.

And this goes for the Rotex. Both are RO's with forced rotation.

the makita is a rotary and in my eyes should be left alone by people new to machine polishing. a rotary is great at removing swirls and scratches but is hard to finish down with in unskilled hands. even most pros follow up the rotary with a ro stage.

will i recommend the makita - no for 2 reasons. 1 its big and heavy and not very ergonomic. 2 its too steep of a learning curve for a noob and fear either you will be scared off from polishing after your first go with it or worse still do some damage to your paint.

i will recommend the festool shinex but again is probly too much for the home punter. its light, balanced and cofortable to use and quiet. i have this machine and have used it for hours on end with the most being 8hrs straight

What? You won't recommend the Makita because it is a rotary yet you'll recommend the Shinex which is also a rotary? And there is only 900 grams difference between a Makita 9227CB and a Festool Shinex. I wouldn't call either of them heavy. If you want heavy, try using a Festool Pollux 180 or a Rupes!!!

my opinion would be to go with a ro for now and get comfortable with that as its a good way to learn the skills needed to polish. after that then look at getting a rotary as these things can cause damage really quick. they can jump and skip and take alot of effort to keep under control. with some practice its second nature but would be daunting as a first experiance with a machine.

i will recommend a festool rotex because i have one and think its great albeit a bit loud when in forced mode. it is probly more then most home punters want to spend but when you look at it as 2 machines its alot more practical then just getting a ro.

Again you've made contradicting statements. First you recommend the OP purchase an RO because it is good for a beginner yet then recommend a Festool Rotex as well. And yeah the cost is probably more than most people want to pay. That's why the Bosch GEX150T is such a good buy. Does everything the Festool does but at half the price.

will i recommend the das6 pro as i have used this is the machine. i started out polishing with a das6 before the pro was out and the pro is even better. i got the kit and it came with everything needed to correct a few cars.

DAS-6 is the best of the bunch when it comes to RO's. But sooner or later, (probably sooner) more cutting power will be required. Otherwise you'd still be using an RO wouldn't you. For this reason I suggested something with forced rotation.

Just for some objective analysis:

BOSCH GEX150T
Power - 600W
Weight - 2.4 KG
Oscillation - 4.5mm
Price - $459

Pros: Benefit of two machines in one. RO mode for starting off when you're learning and forced rotation mode for when inevitability more oomph is needed. Price: at $459 it is almost half the price of a Rotex for the same result.

Cons: Rotates in the opposite direction to a Rotex which does take a bit of getting used to.

Festool Rotex 150
Power: 720W
Weight: 2.3 KG
Oscillation: 5.0mm
Price: $875

Pros: Benefit of two machines in one. RO mode for starting off when you're learning and forced rotation mode for when inevitability more oomph is needed. German made and a little quieter than Bosch GEX150T. Slightly more power.

Cons: Doesn't feel any more powerful. Costs too much. $865 is far too much. For this price you could buy both a Rotary and an RO and have the best of both worlds. Only a 'pro' would spend that much, and if you really were a 'pro' you wouldn't need an RO anyway. I use the term 'pro' tongue in cheek because it is a wanky term that many detailers bandy about quite a bit.

Festool Shinex RAP 150
Power - 1200W
Weight - 2.1KG
Price - $765

Pros: Very light machine. German made. Gearing is slightly smoother than Makita 9227CB. Funky design. Comfortable to hold. You can pretend you're Paul Dalton!

Cons: Very light machine. I found the weight both a blessing and a hindrance. Nice when doing vertical panels but might require physical force when doing horizontal panels such as bonnet and boot. Some will think you're a wanker for trying to be Paul Dalton.

Makita 9227CB
Power - 1200W
Weight - 3.0KG
Price - $418

Pros: Much cheaper than Festool. Will get same results as Festool.

Cons: Slightly heavier than Festool. Gearing not as smooth.

The Concours 900 and the DAS6-Pro are NOT the same machine, they are supplied by 2 different suppliers and I know for a fact that the DAS6-Pro has at least 3 or 4 components inside that the 900 does not, as we had it spec'd at the factory for improved safety/performance and Australian Standards. The DAS6-Pro has also proven itself for well over a year with excellent reliability as the original DAS6 has done for nearly 3 years - the Concours 900 has only been around 6 months.

So what's the difference? Even the bag is the same?




And just for shits and giggles, lets look at the North American version sold as a Griots. Same no?

As far as I know the Makita IS made in China

New Zealand actually.

The Festool Shinex is made in Germany and after spending only 30 minutes polishing you WILL know the difference between the two rotary machines, let alone after 4 or 5 hours! - combined with a 3 year warranty and German made, it is like comparing a Kia to a BMW (yes they are both cars, but one does the job a little differently to the other)

Absolutely! But is it twice as good as the Makita? I say no. I actually went from a Festool Shinex to a Makita 9227CB when I bought my own gear, mainly because I couldn't really justify the massive cost difference of the Festool over the Makita. Sure the gearing of the Festool is a little smoother but other than that, I see no advantage in spending the extra money. Those extra dollars are more than enough to cover the rest of one's detailing gear with top quality stuff. My reason for recommending the Bosch GEX150T over a Festool Rotex is similar to the above. The Rotex is most certainly the better machine but like I said above, is it twice as good? Again I say no.

[toey@carfx]

yes my post probly did contradict a bit but if you took your blinkers off and read it you would see that i have only recomended the machines that I have used. my parents taught me if i dont have first hand info then im just gossiping which isnt nice.....henc why i wont recomend any other machine.

i also explained why i recomend/not recomend each machine mentioned in this whole tread.

the first 3 paragraphs were directed at the op, with the 3rd being the key point.

my opinion would be to go with a ro for now and get comfortable with that as its a good way to learn the skills needed to polish. after that then look at getting a rotary as these things can cause damage really quick. they can jump and skip and take alot of effort to keep under control. with some practice its second nature but would be daunting as a first experiance with a machine.

after that it is my comments on all the machines mentioned in this tread and was not only for the op's benifit but for anyone who was interested.

i must say you do amuse me, a real pro shouldnt need a ro.....so you finished down to a holigram free finish with a rotary on a black wrx lately? i highly doubt it. a ro is a necisary tool even for pros no matter how good you think you are.

lastly i couldnt give a toss what paul dalton uses. sure hes a great detailer but an even better marketer and photographer. there is many of guys here in aus just as good as him.

now back to the op again, a ro would be the best bet in my eyes. learn how to use it then step up to a rotary when you feel you are ready. you may not see the need to make that step as full corrections can be achived with a ro if you put in the time. good luck and take pleanty of pics

[Bravotwozero]

yes my post probly did contradict a bit but if you took your blinkers off and read it you would see that i have only recomended the machines that I have used. my parents taught me if i dont have first hand info then im just gossiping which isnt nice.....henc why i wont recomend any other machine.

No blinkers here. If I had blinkers on, I'd be throwing my Makita in the bin and purchasing a Festool like the rest of the crowd.

i must say you do amuse me, a real pro shouldnt need a ro.....so you finished down to a holigram free finish with a rotary on a black wrx lately? i highly doubt it. a ro is a necisary tool even for pros no matter how good you think you are.

I've never finished off with an RO EVER! And the guy who taught me didn't either. Nothing to do with thinking I'm better than you or anyone else. I just disagree with the notion that it is necessary.

lastly i couldnt give a toss what paul dalton uses. sure hes a great detailer but an even better marketer and photographer. there is many of guys here in aus just as good as him.

There are, I learnt from one of them. Maybe you could and maybe you couldn't but clearly plenty jumped on the band wagon when he did swap. Anyway, I guess we have to agree to disagree.