Just curious about the idea of unballanced lowering......

[ruffiano]

I've noticed on this forum, from time to time with lowering, people seem to want to lower the rear of their cars more than the front (i.e. SL front, SSL rear). I've always been under the impression that one would lower the car evenly all round to maintain handling balance. In my head (and I could be wrong, that's why I'm asking), having lower suspension on the rear would raise the front, increase weight distribution to the rear, thus unweighting the front wheels and induce more understeer. I know many perfornamce cars have larger wheels on the rear, and I've always beleived this to be purely for grip (as a larger wheel can have a wider tire), and I can sort of understand a shorter suspension set up to accomodate for a larger wheel, but then again they usually run thinner tires.
So is the unballanced lowering a functional thing, or puerly a consmetic thing?

?

[neet_wagon]

Its because the later model cars sit bum high, compared to some older cars. If you lower a VN the same height all round it will sit nose high, do the same to a VE and it will sit tail high.

[ruffiano]

But aren't the cars engineered with this taken into accound with respect to suspension tune and weight distribution?

[neet_wagon]

Im not sure that people that lower thier cars excessively and want an even ride height really care about weight transfer to be honest.

The standard VE is a lumpy, bumpy boat to drive, so I'm not so sure there was all that much engineering put in to it (sarcasm) Have you seen that ESP ad for the VE, man that thing has some horrible chassis characteristics.

In MY honest opinion the aftermarket suspension set-ups (when done properly) would yeild a greater benefit to the driver, over the standard set-up....

[azkwazere]

But aren't the cars engineered with this taken into accound with respect to suspension tune and weight distribution?

yes, absolutly.

There is hundreds and thousands of dollars spent making a car comfortable, quiet, safe, durable and also preform.

The validation that goes into making a car production worthy is amazing, ive seen it first hand.

Modifying your suspension *may* increase the preformance of one area, lets say handeling, however it will then reduce ride comfort. Bigger wheels increase grip but also increase road noise.

A produciton car is a *all rounder*, you start making changes and you effect the balance.

Ever wondered why OEM parts last 100,00km easily but aftermarket stuff tends to pack it in sooner?

People make this mistake evryday, nolthane is a BIG example of this. It may make your ride handle firmer but it will bend things, make thigns louder, crack sooner... to put it simply, aftermarket part manufactueres dont put anywhere remotly near the validation that Holden does into its parts.

You have to stop and think to some of the common mods done... if they are soooooo good, why doesn't Holden do them from factory?

** Note, some mods are generally an increase and imporvemnt on a particular area. This is for the majority of un validated modiciations.

aZk.

[neet_wagon]

You have to stop and think to some of the common mods done... if they are soooooo good, why doesn't Holden do them from factory?

aZk.

Why Doesn't Holden do these things from the factory?

^^^ Holden didn't think to completely weld the rear upper control arm mounts into VN commodores properly, and under load they rip the floor out! -because they were lazy - they only want to turn a profit

Welding up IRS cradles with RHS for strength? Again, because Holden were lazy. (And don't go saying these are high HP applications, because Ive seen a stock 215i destroy a rear cradle)

Moving front sway-bar links to the (proper) VB-VL position as opposed to the dodgy VN style, again Holden being stupid. (In the VN style position the swaybar isn't actaully doing a hell of a lot, why do you think HSV changed them back to the old style?)

There are a shedload of things that Holden didn't do from the factory. You ask why Holden doesn't do things from the factory?

If holden put adjustable coil-overs on every Commodore they produced, do you think they'd turn a profit? No. Should they? Hell YES!

Should all commies come with strut braces, and massive adjustable sway-bars, again probably yes.

Holden don't fit things from the factory, because Holden is just another business looking to turn a profit, They don't fit things fromthe factory not because they're not any good but because if they did the 'everyman' probably couldn't afford to buy them!

[azkwazere]

Why Doesn't Holden do these things from the factory?

^^^ Holden didn't think to completely weld the rear upper control arm mounts into VN commodores properly, and under load they rip the floor out! -because they were lazy - they only want to turn a profit

Welding up IRS cradles with RHS for strength? Again, because Holden were lazy. (And don't go saying these are high HP applications, because Ive seen a stock 215i destroy a rear cradle)

Moving front sway-bar links to the (proper) VB-VL position as opposed to the dodgy VN style, again Holden being stupid. (In the VN style position the swaybar isn't actaully doing a hell of a lot, why do you think HSV changed them back to the old style?)

There are a shedload of things that Holden didn't do from the factory. You ask why Holden doesn't do things from the factory?

If holden put adjustable coil-overs on every Commodore they produced, do you think they'd turn a profit? No. Should they? Hell YES!

Should all commies come with strut braces, and massive adjustable sway-bars, again probably yes.

Holden don't fit things from the factory, because Holden is just another business looking to turn a profit, They don't fit things fromthe factory not because they're not any good but because if they did the 'everyman' probably couldn't afford to buy them!

Again... why winge about how shit commodores are when your paying NOTHING for them. They are cheap as chips and preform quite well for the zero dollar tag they are. You cant have you cake and eat it too..

Its a two sided coin, they could run carbon fiber parts, but then no one could afford them.

If you want car that preforms, go out and buy one. A commodores if a family car, its not validated for super preforamnce. Why the hell would a family car need a strut brace?

Im not saying that Holden dont have design floors or defects, thats what recalls cover and constant improvement. The issue (and original point) is that people do all these great modifications which just reduce quality at the end of the day.

aZk.