Water to Air Intercoolers

[defa]

I was wondering if anyone on here has had any experience with water to air intercoolers. or knows anything about them. i am tossing up if i put one my my car or not. as there is not much room behing a standard vn commodore bumper to put a decent size intercooler.
i have heard different things about them.. one person told me that they can get so hot they wull boil but i don't think that is right at all. i have read on a few web sites that they can get so cool it can be too cool. the only thing i don't like about the setup is that ya have to have a pump running and it is just one more thing i have to have running in my car.. the weight factor doesn't worry me too much. what a few more kg's. there will be even more when i put power windows in. so i am not at all worried about that side of things.
one good thing i have thought. is that there won't be much piping. the water intercooler i have is off a suburu and has a 2 inch inlet which matches the turbo. and it has a 3 inch outlet which matches the throttle body.
let me know what you think.

[Cheap6]

Since no one else, perhaps better qualified, has yet replied I'll offer the following:

I am tossing up if i put one my my car or not. as there is not much room behing a standard vn commodore bumper to put a decent size intercooler.

That is one of the biggest advantages, easier packaging.

i have heard different things about them.. one person told me that they can get so hot they wull boil but i don't think that is right at all. i have read on a few web sites that they can get so cool it can be too cool.

For the coolant (not water) to boil depends on the size of the IC, the size of the IC radiator and not least, the duty cycle ie. how much time is allowed for cool down between periods on boost. On a street car or drag racing it is unlikely to be a problem. The IC will never be 100% efficient so will never fall below ambient temp. (or even get close) so too cool? No. Potentially closer to ambient temp than air-air IC? Yes. Using ice in the system on a drag strip may alter that.

the only thing i don't like about the setup is that ya have to have a pump running and it is just one more thing i have to have running in my car.

.

You pays your money and makes your choice. Somewhat less reliable, agreed.

one good thing i have thought. is that there won't be much piping. the water intercooler i have is off a suburu and has a 2 inch inlet which matches the turbo. and it has a 3 inch outlet which matches the throttle body.

So, (slightly) better response. The Subaru was good for 200-220HP (the higher output is in Jap. spec.) so will cope with something around that power level without significant restriction and will deal with the heat load so generated.

Seems like a good idea to me.

[defa]

well thanks for all that. gives me more to think about. i think i will go for it unless someone can come up with something to tell me why i shouldn't.
where i said about now having as much piping. i was more thinking cost wise. will be a lot cheaper and easier.
if it doesn't work as good as i am wanting it to i can always pull it all off and put a front mount on. the only thing i have to buy is the piping and silicone hose and clamps. and maybe the IC radiator i have an AC condeser off a datsun 200 b. it fits nicely but has very small fittings. no i was thinking of buying a big trans cooler with slightly bigger fittings.. the IC water fittings are pretty big so i will have to sleeve them down of screw some hose barbs on them. the only thing i am worred about then using all these small fittings is i don't don't want to slow the water down too much. but then again i spose don't want to have to too fast either.
i just have a diapgram pump. it would run all the time or on boost via a boost switch..

[sixshooter]

The only W2A intercoolers that I have looked into are made specifically for the L67 Ecotec with the Eaton m90 or Whipple Blower !

What engine are you running ?

You'd only fit an intercooler when you are running a boosted engine that is putting out alot of heat in the intake air from the charger... N/A (unforced) cars don't need them.

[defa]

i have a t3/t4 hybrid turbo on my v6 buick. at the moment i have only water injection. but it isn't doing the job i thought it would. i have seen pics of those water to air intercoolers you are talking about are made by yella terra i think. been out for a year or two now.. i wish they made a setup like that for normal manifolds so you could use them for turbo's.
suburu's and toyota's have W2A coolers (of course it is only some of them, not all). mine's off a suburu. i was going to buy a toyota one on ebay right now but i would use the cooler itself as the outlet is too small.
also i did mention it was for a turbo. maybe ya just skimmed what i wrote.

[skootaroo]

W2A intercoolers are by far the most thermally efficient, they can be much smaller than air to air making them easier to install in some cases. If you see a good place under your bonnet to plumb in the subaru one then go for it. Finding the right size shape and space to mount is a bigger decision than wether or not to go wet or dry.
I fly a 2 seat ultralight aircraft with a turbo charade 1.3l, W2A intercooler made by myself with no water pump, it was not necesary with smart design.
Do not get fooled into thinking your pump needs to flow 150l/min or anything ridiculous like that, just make it flow.
Try to make an allowance to install a temp probe, even if you never use it. It is often too hard to check the water temp after you finished it otherwise.

[sixshooter]

You're going to need a custom made manifold to go W2A with a Buick... A2A would be way easier to do in your case !

[defa]

sixshooter, this W2A cooler doesn't have anything to do with the manifold. it sits in the engine bay.
how ever. i was stuffing around with my car today and it seem to use the cooler i have i would either have to cut the inlet of the cooler and change where it sits or the pipe coming out of the turbo would have to weave in and out thought the exhaust and the exhaust manifolds..
so i really don't know what to do now. i will have another look at it tomorrow and maybe see about getting it cut and welded. but i am thinking i might be just better to hack bits out of my front bumper and somehow put a FMIC. i was really looking forward to hooking this W2A cooler. i reckon i would have got good results..
either than or i use a small intercooler core (which i have) and make another W2A cooler.. i have another smaller FMIC and i might take the bumper off tomorrow if i get time and see how i would go putting that in or something a bit bigger..

[sixshooter]

Yeah they do have something to do with the manifold in the ones I've seen !!!

Basically the W2A system works like this...following the rules of thermodynamics that heat transfers to an less heated until an equilibrium is reached between the areas.

Basically they consist of a little radiator that sits in the inlet manifold which the pressurized heated blower/turbo outlet air passes over. This radiator works in reverse to a normal car radiator in that it is absorbing the heat into the radiator (because it it colder than the heated outlet air) this then transfers the heat into the coolant which then gets circulated around to the other radiator plumbed up the the front of the car which works like a normal car radiator transferring the heat to the atmosphere. (as the air passing over it is colder than the coolant in the radiator).

Make sense ?... Photo's would be helpful of what you're trying to do...!

[defa]

i know what you are talking about.. i know how they work.. yella terra make ones that work in the manifold. the one i WAS going to use sits in the engine bay. look on ebay and type in "water to air" there should be at least 3 on there. ther eis a toyota one and a couple of suburu ones. these work the same as the ones you are talking about except they go where ever you can fit them in the engine bay.
the only reson i am not going that way is because the one i have will not work for my setup so i have found out. the inlet of the cooler and the piping between the turbo and the cooler would have to weave in and out between the exhaust and one of the exhaust manifolds. also the cooler would nearly be sitting on the exhaust. there for it would heat up too much and not be worth while doing, that is why i am now going for a front mount cooler..
idealy i reckon a good setup would be a FMIC and a water to air like you are talking about to pic up any heat soak from the inlet piping. then there would always be nice cool air.. but unfortunantly i don't have that sort of coin..

[defa]

[QUOTE=defa;499872]sixshooter, this W2A cooler doesn't have anything to do with the manifold. it sits in the engine bay. QUOTE]

when i said that. notice i said "this W2A cooler"
i wasn't talking about eh ones you arte talking about..

[defa]

http://forum.****************.com/sh....php?t=8473569
the top pic is what you are talking about...
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Subaru-water-...QQcmdZViewItem this is what i have been talking about..
up the top stype in the other forum which this forum has put as a bad word. s t r e e t c o m m o d o r e s

[sixshooter]

Agh great !!! a picture tells a thousand words... Should bolt up easy enough with a few mods...though I wonder what CFM they allow air flow at and whether it is adequate for a 3.8 L compared to the 4 cylinder it came off. :-\

[sixshooter]

i know what you are talking about.. i know how they work.. yella terra make ones that work in the manifold. the one i WAS going to use sits in the engine bay. look on ebay and type in "water to air" there should be at least 3 on there. ther eis a toyota one and a couple of suburu ones. these work the same as the ones you are talking about except they go where ever you can fit them in the engine bay.
the only reson i am not going that way is because the one i have will not work for my setup so i have found out. the inlet of the cooler and the piping between the turbo and the cooler would have to weave in and out between the exhaust and one of the exhaust manifolds. also the cooler would nearly be sitting on the exhaust. there for it would heat up too much and not be worth while doing, that is why i am now going for a front mount cooler..
idealy i reckon a good setup would be a FMIC and a water to air like you are talking about to pic up any heat soak from the inlet piping. then there would always be nice cool air.. but unfortunantly i don't have that sort of coin..

Thats why I said in the beginning a normal A2A would be (easier / cheaper ) for your engine... unless you get a custom intake manifold made.

[defa]

i really would have liked to of made my own water to air cooler. but oh well. maybe next time..
using the suburu setup would ahve worked really well if it wasn't going to sit so close to the exhaust

[Cheap6]

Maybe don't give up so easily, there are plenty of advantages to running W2A. Google Sy/Ty or GMC Syclone or Typhoon for some inspiration. (The Sy/Ty engine is essentially 3/4 of a 350 Chev smallblock.)

I don't think that an A/C condensor or oil cooler will be the best radiator though. Look for a small car radiator or large heater core instead. Maybe from a truck? The pump would be best operated in response to temperature, though using boost pressure would anticipate the temp. rise. The IC acts as heat sink as much as a heat exchanger with W2A.

[defa]

i really didn't want to give up, but i have. i bought a 600x300x76 FMIC last night and should be here friday..
how ever. i have seen some that are just tube shaped. if i ever seen one of them again i will be tempted to buy one and us it either aswell or take teh front mount off to see if there is any differences.. i still have more cares to play with. so i may be able to use the one i have on something else.. i have a mazda 929 2 door i am putting a draw through turbo setup. with those setups you can't run an intercooler is it is dangerours. the fuel can sit inside the cooler and explode. so running a water to air on that setup might work ok seeing you only run water in the cores. then again thgat may give me too much lag with throttle responce..
would be something to think about anyways.

[Cheap6]

Running a fuel air mix through the IC core will still be an issue with W2A.

[defa]

but with W2A you run water inside the cores of the cooler. the intake air runs (and fuel in the case of a draw through setup) blows through the outside of the cores.. but still like you say it could be a problem..

[Furious_8]

Seems like this has turned into you teaching people about the things.....

Here is a picture with some in many shapes and sizes.

Water To Air Intercooler

[defa]

those 3 on the outside is how i thought i would make one up. would work in good with the small intercooler i have.. i might still make one up. i would like to do it for shits and giggles one day.

[Cheap6]

but with W2A you run water inside the cores of the cooler. the intake air runs (and fuel in the case of a draw through setup) blows through the outside of the cores.. but still like you say it could be a problem..

The issue is the large volume of fuel/air which is the same regardless of the medium used for heat exchange.

[defa]

yeah i think i know what ya mean. i was reading somerthing about W2A setup, that the fuel can sink to the bottm and build up. is that what you are talking about.