vn ecu used for other motors??
ever since i have got my eprom burner it has got me thinking. what else could you adapt the loom to. i have a 13b rotary to put in my mazda 929 two door hopefully some time this year. and i was thinking, seeing rotary's run two rotors and 3 firing points per rotor that sort of makes the same sparking as as a 6 cylinder.. and as the vn's run two injector drivers and some injection setups ya buy for rotary's run two injectors.. i would think ya would then have to get a crank sensor to run in place of the distributer which are quite easy to find. then run a couple of single coils packs, (Which i have off a ca18).
this is probably wasteing anybody's time who is reading this but it was just a thought of maybe a cheap way or injecting my mazda for when i turbo it. then i wouldn't have to go the draw through turbo setup..
i am sure there are many things i havn't taken into account that i odn't know about but i thought it may be possible thats all. and now seeing how tuneable the delco ecu's are i thought it would be alright to use a delco..
just had another thought that might stuff things up... rotarys have a funn firing order. where they run two spark plugs each rotor. i can't remember properly but i think the top fires first then the bottom then maybe the top straight after. it is a funny old setup.. so yeah maybe it would be a lot easier to get a mazda ecu???
Grandpa
the 808 has been used on just about anything, its just a matter of setting up crank sensing & firing bits & pieces, & getting it to run.lol
fairly straight forward.
Rob
well i spose it is something to think about then.. i was just thinking about it. and each revoloution of a roary motor it will spark 18 times. i am pretty sure that is right. i was looking at a thing on some web site about how they worked. and i do remember one plug did spark twice. but i spose part of that would be built into the crank angle sensor i spose.. i know the rotor buttons on my distrubutor is a cranky looking thing..
Firing order will stuff you up.
They're quite strange.
From memory, one top, then it's bottom fires, but slightly after the first one top fires the second top fires, and then the bottom on it fires, kinda like top-top --- bottom - bottom
ok. ya might be right. bit i thought the bottom only fired once.. but could be wrong.. i think that would be the hardest of the puzzle..
455rwhp LS3
As Bob has said the delco has been used to fire lots of different engines. I have seen on a website somewhere a Harley that was modded to run the delco set up. These run a odd firing set up due to the angle of the cylinders. I am pretty sure it was on the kalmaker website.
The firing order has nothing to do with anything, the rotors run a dizzy that will control all that anyway right? so don't worry about that
yeah i was thinking that. but i wasn't sure. i might just have a go at it one day. i reckon it would be a cheap way of fuel injecting it. then again ya would have to use the delco compatable sensors though. wouldn't ya..
can the delco be use as just fuel only or not.. just out of interest.. i don't think i would be going that way. but i thought ya never know...
Donating Member
defa, check out http://www.megasquirt.info/ apparently a few rotary chaps are running these, and there decent for the price also,
Im looking into this for my VS, eventually when i get my manifold done and i want to get into the tuning side of it..
i dont see y the delco cant be used, im interested in this, as one of my good mate's is currently buildin a 13b monstaport.. he got me onto the website. hope it helps
how much are the megasquirts worth??
Donating Member
i think round $600 assembled and ready to program, or for $250 odd, u can assemble the PCB urself and save cash..
its on the site somewhere, hard to navigate.. i'll see if i cant find it again.
Delco will work fine as fuel only and if you can program it will give many more options for control than megasquirt (but also be more complex).
A two rotor Wankel fires like a 4 cylinder; the eccentric shaft turns 3X per rotor revolution, there are 3 power cycles per rotor revolution, X2 rotors.
The two plugs per chamber fire very close to one another which is why Mazda used what mounts to two separate ignition systems; to allow adequate coil dwell time. (Early 10A and 12A motors used twin distributors, as well as coils, with contact breaker points. Later motors used electronic ignition which allowed a single distributor with an inductive pick up sensor, and the points replaced by two ignition modules switching the coils.
Two unleaded JD/JE Camira/N13 Pulsar/LD Astra systems would be a good place to start. Cheap, if you understand what you are doing and not paying someone else by the hour to sort it out.
i don't understand why they are like a 4 cylinder. two rotors and three firing points makes 6. not saying you are wrong. but that is the way i thought of it..
also why would i need two setups for the one car? i don't get what ya mean there..
the two plug per rotor fire very close. that is right. but from memory they fire: top, bottom, top. and that happens each time it fires. so that would mean there is 9 sparks per side each revolution.. i think that is right either that of the bottom one fires again. i will have to have another look at the site i found once that explained how they worked.. i am thyinking the last spart is to make sure there isn't any unburned fuel..
First I need to correct some things in my previous post: there are two ignition pickups in the single dizzies, one for each ignition system. (Some racing rotary's used one but then have both plugs per chamber firing at the same time). Also, points (2 of) were used on early single dizzies prior to the introduction of electronic ignition. It's been a while since I've played with rotary's, sorry.
A rotary will run on either ignition system alone, though poorly on the trailing as the ignition timing will then be retarded by up to 10 or so degrees. In fact, on early models fitted with a thermal reactor - like a catalytic convertor without the catalyst - the trailing ignition was (is?) shut off at times to encourage burning to continue in the thermal reactor for emissions reasons.
They are like a 4 cylinder 4-stroke (or two cylinder 2-stroke) in terms of the total number of ignition cycles per crank or eccentric shaft revolution ie. 2.
A 4-stroke fires, per cylinder, on every second revolution - 1/2 times 4 cylinders = 2 times per shaft revolution. The rotary fires three times per rotor revolution while the eccentric shaft turns three times per rotor revolution = one ignition event per rotor, per shaft revolution, times two rotors = 2 times per shaft revolution. The two plugs (ignition systems) per chamber are to ensure complete combustion in the (odd shaped) combustion chamber.
Because they do fire like a 4 cylinder, (4 stroke) the two setups would be an easy way of achieving the required ignition timing without having to change too much in the ECM. It is not the only way to do it, just easier.
It is only the ignition side that requires duplication, not the fuel, although staging injectors could be easily achieved by setting the duty cycle of the second set to zero until they are required.
If the signal from the Mazda inductive pick ups is similar to that from the GM (Camira, Astra/Pulsar) I think that it would actually be quite straight forward to set up, though I am not 100% on how you would share the inputs from the sensors. Parallel wiring should be OK without me thinking about it too hard. Another alternative may be to use fixed 'sensor' data ie. feed appropriate fixed values into the ECM used for the (less critical in terms of timing) trailing ignition and ignore any cold operation advance etc. You would lock the centrifugal and vacuum advance mechanisms in the Mazda distributor for each side in the most retarded position and operate like Camira/Astra/Pulsar/Commodore V8.
The 'bottom' 'plug is the leading ignition side and the 'top' 'plug is the trailing side and the leading plug always fires first; the rotor rotates clockwise.
With a day to think about it and assuming that you have full control over ignition timing and injector pulse width in the ECM, here's how I would do it:
Use a Camira/Astra Delco system for fuel and leading ignition, with the leading sensor locked at the distributor and use the mechanical centrifugal and vacuum advance mechanisms as is for the trailing side. Pretty close to full engine management for very little money.
so it wouldn't be too hard to do then? i won't even have the motor in teh car for a while. got a couple of other cars ahead to finish with first. but i reckon this would be the way to go.
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