vs ecotec MAF upgrades

[oldmate74]

hi, i just wondering what ppl are using to upgrade their MAF on the vs v6 ecotec motors.
oversizing/boring out?
or is there a replacement from another car that can be used?

i noticed the gen3 ls1 MAF's look very similar and no doubt could be used but im unable to find the factory size/diameter of the gen3 MAF.

also can anyone comment on the modified 70mm vs throttle bodies?
do they really end up to thin?
has anyone had one brake or fail? if so over what time frame?

also does anyone know the power potential of the vy supercharger fitted in a vs?

im about to buy some goodies and dont want to risk buying the wrong ones..
i plan on getting the larger MAF and throttle body now and fitting it and then later on down the track i want to get a vy charger for it..
but im not sure how big i can go on the TB for the NA engine without making it drive like a pig or making it slower.
the bottom end is stock at the moment but i am building another bottom end to suite the charger, plan on having forgies, decent cam, balanced and a bit of port work...

oh and i also have a modified chip, but it will have to be modified again to suit the charger..

anyways it would be great to get some advice and feedback regarding the above.
cheers

[mking]

firstly when you say a vy s/c are you meaning an l67? if you are ide just be going for a complete engine swap, and as for the tb and MAF ive had a 70mm tb and did notice a difference in acceleration but as for the messed up shift patterns it wasnt worth it and i was looking for a new car so i didnt bother getting a tune but if you were to get a tune so your shift pointswere sweet it'd be a good mod

[oldmate74]

VY V6 supercharger. yeah L67.
and why go for an engine change?
why did it mess up the shift pattern?

[mking]

because the entire engine is built purposely for FI and will cop alot more abuse then just a stock ecotec and the transplant will probably be easier in the long run, vs have a electronic shifting box and the larger t/b makes 1st shift into second at about 1500rpm sometimes and just alround messed up my shifts and totally ruins your idle also but i am told a tune from greenfoam etc can fix this , which is what i will be doing when i throw the t/b back onto my stato as for the maf i havnt bothered with it i think you will see better performance for money from some mace manifold an plenum insulators and indeffinently from some higher ratio rockers

oh and as for the walls on the tb being to thin after being bored i dont really see this being a problem as it is only air travelling through it and there is next to no other pressure aplied to it and there is still a fair bit of meat on it once it has been done

[oldmate74]

because the entire engine is built purposely for FI and will cop alot more abuse then just a stock ecotec and the transplant will probably be easier in the long run

well i doubt they went to much trouble upgrading the internals of the engine as they already have low comp and the fact the pully is only @ 6psi or there abouts wouldnt put much stress on the engine.

also you must of overlooked that my engine will be fully rebuilt to suit the supercharger, and the fact i already have a stage 4 chip.

and the reason i ask about the MAF is whats the point upping the size of the TB if the MAF is still stock size, just another restriction as air will bottleneck at the MAF..
and since the gen3 MAF sensors look the same i was wondering if they were larger and then being a direct bolt on upgrade rather than get a bored out 1.

[Blown V6 Hatch]

well i doubt they went to much trouble upgrading the internals of the engine as they already have low comp and the fact the pully is only @ 6psi or there abouts wouldnt put much stress on the engine.

also you must of overlooked that my engine will be fully rebuilt to suit the supercharger, and the fact i already have a stage 4 chip.

and the reason i ask about the MAF is whats the point upping the size of the TB if the MAF is still stock size, just another restriction as air will bottleneck at the MAF..
and since the gen3 MAF sensors look the same i was wondering if they were larger and then being a direct bolt on upgrade rather than get a bored out 1.

The only parts the L67 shares with the Ecotec is the block & crank. Rods & pistons are much stronger and the pistons are dished to give less comp on the L67.

A stage 4 chip....what the hell is that?

The LS1 MAF is bigger than the Ecotec/L67 MAF and is used quiet often on modded L67's, however the MEMCAL needs to be remapped to suit the LS1 MAF. Also, the stock MAF is fine up to around the 170-180rwkw mark, so a complete waist of time & money on a stock/lightly modded Ecotec, same goes with the T/B waist of time.

Just buy a complete L67 and drop it in.....Job done. Then mod the L67.

[oldmate74]

stage 4 chip...well i guess the stages only apply to the person programing as he has stages 1 thru 4

[sircruisealotVS]

Don't waste money on a bored out ecotec maf sensor, it's not going to allow you to read any more airflow - which is what you want if your planning on comming close to maxing out the stock one, so there is no point.
Just install a LS1 maf sensor, they're cheap, plug straight in and allow you to map out airflow beyond what the ecotec maf is capable of, with proper tuning.
As for oversized t/b's i've never seen the point - i dont have any worries putting out over 220rwkw with a stock one...

[delcowizzid]

a bored out maf or ls1 maf will both allow for measuring more air as the frequency vs airflow changes you get more air going through for the same Hz frequency getting output to the ecu.its good when the limiting factor is the stock ecu tunes only measuring upto 8Hz of frequency i think it is.so a bigger maf gives you the extra headroom before maxing out the frequency team that up with kalmaker which extends the frequency to 10Hz and you can measure a huge increase in flow.but if you are using the maf on the intake side of the blower it will be sweet to 10psi at least i think.

[oldmate74]

yeah, so ya recon stick with the stocker MAF for now and then when the time comes for the supercharger get a MAFless tune(if possible)..
hmm can they be converted to use a boost friendly MAP sensor?

cheers everyone for input so far...its good to get some mixed thoughts.
lol still havent heard if the ls1 maf is bigger than the vs maf...probly doesnt matter now but it could come in handy one day..

[delcowizzid]

yeah you can go map if you get a dyno tune with kalmaker or you can roll back to the VR auto ecu which runs map as well and can control the electronic auto still

[oldmate74]

ok, so is it a simple roll back. any major mods need doing on the wiring harness or car?

[delcowizzid]

it will require a bit of repinning at the ecu plug but with a repinning tool its pretty easy to unpin and repin the wires where they need to go and then use the old maf wires to plug the map sensor in.both methods will require tuning though

[sircruisealotVS]

a bored out maf or ls1 maf will both allow for measuring more air as the frequency vs airflow changes you get more air going through for the same Hz frequency getting output to the ecu.its good when the limiting factor is the stock ecu tunes only measuring upto 8Hz of frequency i think it is.so a bigger maf gives you the extra headroom before maxing out the frequency team that up with kalmaker which extends the frequency to 10Hz and you can measure a huge increase in flow.but if you are using the maf on the intake side of the blower it will be sweet to 10psi at least i think.

Fair enough, i've been told in the past that the ecotec maf can only measure up to a certain frequency, whilst the LS1's maf surpasses this...buggered if i can remember numbers at the moment though.
But if what your saying is the case then so be it, you'd probably be more familiar with this stuff. I didn't think an ecotec maf could be bored to 75mm diameter like a LS1 maf is stock though, so always figured it could handle and measure more airflow at higher frequency.

[Philthy]

I read somewhere that the stock ecotec intake (throttle body, plenum & maf) are good for up to about 180-190rwkw, so apart from keeping everything clean and in good nick, I don't really see much point in upgrading

[MACE]

You can machine the V6 MAF's out to around 74mm, and flow much more then a standard LS1 MAF. Not only this, as delcowizard has pointed out, the bored out item does allow for more air flow per given frequency compared to the factory item, meaning that they can be tuned beyond the 180rwkw mark.

Even though the standard MAF is good for around the 180kw at the rears mark, you have to take into consideration that it still represents a pressure drop across the intake along with other items such as the air filter assembly throttle body, plenum, heads etc.

If you do anything in these areas for instance to reduce the pressure drop from occurring the engine will be able to ingest more air meaning more power. You might find that changing only one item, for instance on the inlet tract might make a small difference but if you focus on improving the entire system then solid gains are definitely available.

The last two paragraphs are more applicable to naturally aspirated engines as they only have atmospheric pressure to work with making them more sensitive to such changes, unlike a boosted engine which has more overall pressure to play with to overcome any pressure drops attributed to MAF's etc. Basically these areas are more important to NA cars looking to make power then boosted ones