Very dodgy RWC on recent VT berlina purchase

[nickbedford]

So I bought a 98 VT Berlina wagon recently (some weeks ago - I forget, $5400) and the guy put the car in at Barton Holden for the road worthy after me agreeing to buy it.

Ended up they had the thing for a week and apparently were taking their time doing the RW.

First off, the poor guy was hit for a $2700 bill for a whole lot of stuff (some redundant or not really needed stuff). Then when he got it back the guys at Holden had somehow knocked a mount for the bumper on the left out a bit, so we eventually got around to hammering it back to shape (the left side of the front bumper was sticking out about 8mm).

But only a few days ago, I notice the handling is getting worse and worse, the rear IRS / wheel makes a scraping noise on right hand corners, and the rear end sways vaguely left and right in certain accelerating and road conditions.

My brother (who's a light vehicle mechanic) tells me its the bushes in the IRS, takes it into work and hands it over to Pedders, and they discover the following:

* Bolts missing in rear suspension arm
* IRS cradle bushes rooted
* Front right-hand strut about to push through
* Link pin bushes worn
* Extractors sitting against steering rod (due to recent muffler damage I did on a bad driveway - that we thought we'd fixed)

Pedders kindly advise my brother that it should have never been road-worthied as its in a very dangerous condition and we both tend to agree!

My brother has suggested strongly that we should give Holden a call and ask them WTF they were doing and my guess is that because they provided an illegal road-worthy they should be responsible?

Should they be held responsible for paying for the repairs? They provided a road-worthy which should have never been signed. I love the car, but don't exactly want to fall on a strut or lose the wheels off the car at 100km/h down the highway!

It's a bitch, cause the car is so nice to drive (when the handling wasn't rooted anyway)

P.S. my mechanical knowledge is only basic (only what Ive learnt through my bro at home)

[TMM]

Check your state road authority laws.

If it's similar to vic, you're up shit creek pretty much

[nickbedford]

Roadworthiness certificates : VicRoads

You're up shit creek pretty much

Hmm well that sucks. We can at least blast Holden and see what happens... My step dad is going to try. From my brother's informed reaction, it seems like this could have been a serious safety issue, not just a minor road-worthiness issue.

The cost is going to be possibly a lot over the initial $750 for the IRS replacement.

Sad panda... I want my nice Berlina back! But I'm also broke!

[greenfoam]

You''ve not listed more than about 100 bucks in parts and one hours time to fix it all tho, so no big deal

[nickbedford]

Pedder's gave a quote of $750 for the IRS problems since they need to replace it or something (bro knows more and I trust his judgement).

But we're getting the front strut and the IRS fixed today. I rang QLD Transport and they said to obviously yell at Holden first then if no good comes out of it then come back and file a complaint to be investigated or something.

I'm glad I go to my brother for problems and not Holden. Never ever trusted dealers as they never fix the issue, and cost you a fortune in other unwanted work. Feel sorry for the bloke who sold me the car.

[greenfoam]

Nah the big bushes on the IRS are really cheap and just take a few minutes to swap, one bolt!. Link pin bushes are like 2 dollars each and strut top might be 50-60

[nickbedford]

Nah the big bushes on the IRS are really cheap and just take a few minutes to swap, one bolt!. Link pin bushes are like 2 dollars each and strut top might be 50-60

This is true, but Pedders didn't want to hand him the keys back, he said. I think the damage/wear is worse than what it appears to be on paper.

Pedders basically said, "It's not safe to even drive, we need to fix it now."

I guess one good thing will come out of this, I'll have better handling and ride comfort than even when I bought it (hopefully anyway ). But I still don't want to pay for this shit!

[Tom_1569]

Two problems here, Holden and Pedders, Im not sure whos worse, but I recon its Pedders, they have the worst name for claiming stuff needs replacing when it doesnt and charging insane prices for work. A mate use to work for a Pedders branch and the stories he told us were unreal, he left there because it was ruining his name as a mechanic with the stuff he had to do.

Also its normally 28days from the date of the roadworthy, but in Vic all they will do is tear up the roadworthy and say they accidently over looked something.

[danja]

While worn bushes are bad, they are rarely so bad that you can't drive it a reasonable distance. The one I'd be worried about is "Bolts missing in rear suspension arm". I'd let Pedders fix that, then take care of the rest with your brother.

Pedders have a terrible reputation for turning a small issue into a huge bill. If you do get any work done by them, don't let them talk you into paying for a bunch of stuff you didn't ask for or need. Agree on a quote up front and if they decide to do additional work without your approval, don't pay them for it.

[greenacc]

You can never win with a roadworthy check. When you want the car to pass they always fail you on something. When you want them to find problems .... like when you buy a car, they close their eyes and wave it through. In the end you have to make sure that you are getting what you pay for.
Your car will drive loads better with new bushes.
Next time take your brother with you when you are going to buy a car.

[nickbedford]

Yeah I'm just gonna have to wear the bill. Turns out its probably not worth the bother trying to chase up Holden.

The thing is, I let my brother handle it because he's a mechanic himself and I don't think he would send it off to somewhere and be oblivious to any bullshit they pull.

They ended up doing exactly what was needed and quoted, the right front strut was fixed (left one was done by Holden back at the road worthy), the bushes in the IRS replaced and whatever else needed to be done there and a wheel alignment and balance.

The rear end feels like its glued to the ground now. Definitely worth getting it repaired (I mean, the scraping and the shifting of the rear end around as you drive was enough to warrant repair anyway!).

[nickbedford]

Next time take your brother with you when you are going to buy a car.

I did. It drove fine back then, and it actually drove fine for over a month up until last week. I never do anything with my car or when buying cars without talking to or involving both my step dad and my brother

[HCVP]

Two problems here, Holden and Pedders, Im not sure whos worse, but I recon its Pedders, they have the worst name for claiming stuff needs replacing when it doesnt and charging insane prices for work. A mate use to work for a Pedders branch and the stories he told us were unreal, he left there because it was ruining his name as a mechanic with the stuff he had to do..

Pedder's are a joke, and an absolute rip off. They seem to claim the quote as being resonable because they replace each and every part, including some that arent in need, but will see even wear in the future, amongst the rest of the compnents being replaced/fitted.
I bought a VP for $1900, and took it in to them, (this was before i knew how bad they were) and they gave me a quote for $1700 !!

You dont have to be a rocket scientist to realise that quote was excessive. If i put $1700 worth of suspension compnents into my car, i'd expect to be right up the arse of a Lotus Elise through the bends!!!!!

[MikesCalais]

But pedders.... its no bull! lol

For next time, I would've got it checked by another place... maybe even a different holden dealer. If they find the same problems, then take it back to the holden dealer that provided the road worthy with a quote from the other holden dealership and rant and rave untill they do something about it.

From my experience, dealers always say 'its not our problem' until they realise that your serious and your not going to leave them alone and then they usually do the right thing.. persistance!!

The only thing is because it was fine for over a month (even though thats not a long time) they could have said 'its normal wear and tear'

theyre all bastards!

[Calaber]

In NSW, the RTA takes a very dim view of shonky rego inspections and any garage that issued a pink slip (RWC) on a vehicle which was then found to be unroadworthy, could find itself in hot water.

It appears that this isn't the same in other States, judging by some of the posts here.

For years, I have heard that the standards required for re-registration of cars varies dramatically between states. It still appears that NSW has the most stringent requirements, and also the most stringently enforced laws compared to other states. South Aus seems to let you get away with anything, Qld isn't much better and Victoria is not far different from NSW. Can't comment on the other states as we don't see much here, particularly from Tas.

Am I right? Do other states treat re-rego as a revenue-raising formality or do they really try to maintain the roadworthiness of vehicles?

And to back up what other members have said to the OP, get a second opinion this time round, and don't touch Pedders in future. Pedders have been ridiculed so frequently on this forum for wanting to do everything immediately, at massive cost, that you would have to think they were not above board.

[danja]

I bought a VP for $1900, and took it in to them, (this was before i knew how bad they were) and they gave me a quote for $1700 !!

You dont have to be a rocket scientist to realise that quote was excessive. If i put $1700 worth of suspension compnents into my car, i'd expect to be right up the arse of a Lotus Elise through the bends!!!!!

What did you take it in for? If you were getting a wheel alignment, $1,700 is a bit over the top, whereas if you wanted a set of coilovers, it would be a bargain.

$1,700 is pennies in the world of good suspension, and you could spend $10,000 on a Commodore and still be watching the Elise fade into the sunset

For next time, I would've got it checked by another place... maybe even a different holden dealer. If they find the same problems, then take it back to the holden dealer that provided the road worthy with a quote from the other holden dealership and rant and rave untill they do something about it.

From my experience, dealers always say 'its not our problem' until they realise that your serious and your not going to leave them alone and then they usually do the right thing.. persistance!!

I'm sure you won't have to shout much, the dealer will gladly do the repair work I'm sure, but you'll still have to pay for it - they aren't going to do it for free. If they had discovered the problems in the first inspection (which may indeed not have been there, or not to the extent that warranty an unroadworthy condition) they would simply have charged to have them fixed, or not issued the roadworthy certificate.

In NSW, the RTA takes a very dim view of shonky rego inspections and any garage that issued a pink slip (RWC) on a vehicle which was then found to be unroadworthy, could find itself in hot water.

While the RTA would certainly take a dim view, it doesn't mean there aren't plenty of dodgy garages out there who will issue one.

There was one in particular I used to use because I knew the mechanic quite well and it was local to where I worked. I went in for rego and he looked at the papers, then issued the pink eSlip through the phone to the RTA. His reason for not even looking at the car was "Oh I know you take care of it".

While that was nice of him to say and everything, it could easily have not been true.

[nickbedford]

Well when I got my $400 VL commodore road worthy, the guy (who was my mate's boss) actually asked me if I wanted him to actually inspect the car lol (which we decided against).

The car was fine for 2.5 years before I bought this. Minor issues and some upgrades but everything we fixed or modified, we did at home.

In fact, only a few weeks ago, I did a nice job wrenching the center muffler on a shithole driveway. Caused an exhaust leak on the left extractor, and bent the whole exhaust pipe wrenching it off the rear mounts.

Spent 30 bucks on bits, reseated the extractors, took an inch out of the exhaust all in a day's work in the shed and its fine now.

Needless to say that when it happened I was cursing wildly cause I'd only had this car a few weeks! Had to drive home with the exhaust pipe tied up to the car.

[Tsunamix]

Ok when it comes to RWC's - The RTA takes a real dim view of didgy's. However they are not the legal autohority, the small claims tribunal is.

You made a real good move taking it to Holden. They are now in a position where bad publicity will hurt them. tell them that you are talking to the RTA, you are talking to Small claims, and if you don't get some back up from them, you will talk to the newspapers.

In the end, they are a business and bad publicity will hurt them more than a 2 grand suspension bill.

When you do call them, make sure you DON'T DON't DON't get angry. Make it easy for them to say yes, rather than make them want to say no.

[Venom_SS]

I recently brought a VP SS and i had the same problem, the guy i brought it off got the RWC done, i got the car and straight away found the hand break didnt work, the clip for the windscreen wipers wasent there so it fell off as soon as i lifted it up AND the horn didnt work.

I Took it back to him and he spun a bunch of bullshit to me, so i left it there with him, came back a day later, He fixed the horn but when i push it it gets stuck in... The hand break STILL dosent work... the only thing he did was fix the clip on the windscreen wiper.

Im also pritty sure the guy was really pissed of that i brought it back and more then likely did some minor things to my car.

Im gonna ring Vic Roads today and get him in the shit.

[danja]

Ok when it comes to RWC's - The RTA takes a real dim view of didgy's. However they are not the legal autohority, the small claims tribunal is.

You made a real good move taking it to Holden. They are now in a position where bad publicity will hurt them. tell them that you are talking to the RTA, you are talking to Small claims, and if you don't get some back up from them, you will talk to the newspapers.

In the end, they are a business and bad publicity will hurt them more than a 2 grand suspension bill.

When you do call them, make sure you DON'T DON't DON't get angry. Make it easy for them to say yes, rather than make them want to say no.

Some people would call that blackmail.

The facts of the matter are 1) if Holden had discovered the problems and not issued the roadworthy certificate, they wouldn't have fixed them for free, they would have charged for the work; and 2) the car was driven around for a month before the problems were found.

No one in their right mind is going to just keel over and say "Holden should pay the driver $1700 for these repairs". Worn bushes would rarely cause a car to fail a RWC, and bolts could have fallen out any time.

Unless you can prove the car was unroadworthy as it rolled out the garage, there isn't much of a case there.

[ari666]

Pedder's are a joke, and an absolute rip off.

i have an extremely good working relationship with pedders in hawthorn. they have always given me good prices and their service has been brilliant. i have found them to go really out of their way for business.

i dont think its fair to make claims like this about all peddars, especially when they are a franchise and run by very different managers.

sadly the branch you took it to had no right to carry out the work on your car without your consent and also no right to withold your car if you dont pay. we withheld a guys car when he refused to foot the bill for the work i had done. he reason for not paying was "i found someone who will do it cheaper" AFTER we had complied it. he then got the office of fair trade involved and we were forced to give him the car back. (i had to remove all parts etc that i had fitted)

as a consumer you are entitled to a shedload of rights that a lot of people dont know about. talking to a local ombudsman will help your cause greatly.

[ari666]

Worn bushes would rarely cause a car to fail a RWC, and bolts could have fallen out any time.

ummm, worn bushes will ALWAYS cause a car to fail RWC. i dunno where you get yours done...

[danja]

ummm, worn bushes will ALWAYS cause a car to fail RWC. i dunno where you get yours done...

Perhaps you and I have different ideas of what worn means.

Bushes tend to degrade gradually over a long period of time, and I would say the vast majority of cars on the road have bushes which are what I would call worn, that is not providing the same level of performance as when they were new.

If what you mean by worn is something like "so rooted they may as well not even be there", then it may be case for failing a RWC, but that's not what worn means to me.

[graemevb]

Suggest what others do when buying a car where the rwc may be dodgy(whenever you buy from a car dealer) is to get a second rwc inspection done, yes it will cost, but chances are they will find more than that in items that need attention.
Once you are armed with your second rwc, you ring the dealer or the supplier of the first rwc and tell them the problem. They will most likely say its a matter of opinon what is worn etc, anything to deflect the situation. When this occurs just instantly tell them that your local rta will be informed of the situation and depending on the state they will review or may even inspect the car themselves. No rwc inspector is going to take their chances here as its really a licence to print money, and you will find they will fix the items . if you press hard enough will pay for your 2nd rwc inspection, but do insist on having the 2nd rwc inspector check the repairs.

[ari666]

worn generally means knackered. why call it worn when it is just 'used'? meh.

i bet anyone 5 grand that they can bring me a brand new car and i can find an un-rwc point on it. it is very much down to interpretation, however. the point at hand is that the original licenced RWC supplier overlooked a few critical things which would instantly fail a car and should have rectified their oversight. of course they would not have done it for free, but it would have been best to take it back to them.

pedders had no right to carry out work without consent. and the bill for peddars should not have been paid.

i like what someone else said "next time you buy a car, take your brother with you" the rear irs arm would have been very noticable on a test drive, and someone with you who could have identified that would have stopped this whole thread from starting.