Greasing T5 Shifter

[azzfox]

Is this a good idea? Im still not 100% happy with how the shifts feel, but only 1st and 2nd. Tomorrow Im giving Dexron III another ago with the aid of LZ 7906, but it also crossed my mind that maybe the shifter could do with some greasing seeing it hasnt been touched since it left the factory.

I was looking at some diagrams and thought it couldnt do any harm to slap some new grease in there, mainly on the detent ball and bush where the shifter sits in. Is there enough room to get to the detent ball without removing the linking joint?

Input?

Cheers.

[kniever]

yeh i greased mine up, its easy as, just 4 bolts that hold the shifter in so take them out and the whole shifter bit just comes out

[azzfox]

Sweet. Another job for tomorrow.

Knew there was a reason to use screws instead of rivets when I did the conversion

[danja]

Don't know how the T5 would respond, but I just changed the fluid in my T56 to Castrol Transmax Z (which is DexIII compatible) and had a huge increase in shift quality.

[azzfox]

Ah yeah that seems to be a fully synthetic ATF. I was looking at some of Penrites 'SIN ATF' (I have a Penrite obsession lol) and I almost died when I saw the price. It was around $50 for 4 litres! I would hate to have to fill an auto trans from scratch with that stuff . The Mustang boys over in the states reckon standard mineral ATF works/is better for the T5 anyway. But if Im still not happy with it then I may just fork out the cash for the synthetic, or maybe a lighter synthetic gear oil, who knows when this will end. lol

Or maybe my gearbox is just shagged and nothings going to help it, but the glass is half full.

[danja]

It is synthetic. I had tried Nulon ATF (also synthetic) prior, and it was nowhere near as good as this Castrol stuff. Lots of LS1 boys rave about it, and now I can see why. It is about $70-75 for 4L though

[azzfox]

Jeebuz christ! Has to be good for that price . But why must they sell it in 4L containers? Thats 400ml short of a second change!

[danja]

Jeebuz christ! Has to be good for that price . But why must they sell it in 4L containers? Thats 200ml short of a second change!

They sell 1L bottles too I think. The Nulon stuff comes in 5L bottles.

[azzfox]

Well I got the shifter out and greased it all up, but it seems it lubricates itself. There was a pool of oil around the bottom (red in color, so new oil). Then I also noticed a hole in the guide plate where the excess must run back into the extension housing. It must enter in small amounts from the shift rail. But anywho the shifter itself that doesnt get any oil from the box is now much smoother.

Btw, the shifter was a mungrel to get off. Had to get under the car with a long screwdriver and hammer to give it some motivation.

[Chirpstr]

You shouldn't use Dextron in earlier T5's. VR T5's use Dextron where as earlier ones use gear oil. My VR is a VN or VP box and I have Penrite gear oil in it and seems good. The other Commodore (VP) I have I'm going to change the fluid in it tomorrow because it's very noisey and I looked and it's Dextron which the previous owner must of put in instead of Gear oil. I know it's the standard box which means Gear Oil because I looked up the serial on the box. First thought It had been changed somewhere down the track to a VR box hence seeing Dextron.

[azzfox]

You shouldn't use dextron in earlier T5's. VR T5's use dextron where as earlier ones use gear oil.

I always stood by this, but now I dont necessarily agree. Go on any ford forums (mostly from the states) and they will tell you the World Class T5 (which is what all VN-VS T5's are) NEEDS an ATF. The World Class T5 uses needle roller bearings instead of bushes, and 1st and 2nd gear have fibre-backed syncros (funny how only 1st and 2nd are causing me grief lol).

Im thinking when Holden figured out that ATF works better, they just wrote it in the specs from that day forward and diddnt bother changing the specs of previous models.

remember syncros work on friction. they need to be able to make 2 gears turning at differnt speeds to the same speed in a fraction of a second if it cant get that grip it will grind into gear. thats why old non world class t-5's use gear lube cause they were all brass but now they are fiber and carbon backed so they have to be able to grab smoothly.

[Chirpstr]

What your reading from the US is probably the VR model T5's?

I really don't think Holden are wrong about that and if you'll to ask them they will prob still suggest what it still is now.
(Maybe Dr Bob can set this straight if he read this)
Thin oil is what the VR T5's need because of slightly different internals (different syncro's?) so Dextron and Lubizol, not heavy thick gear oil as you know the two are completely different so it would be strange to say use thin oil in VN VP T5's now.

Sure...it would probally shift better but would not be good for the box and also be really noisey.
My 1st and 2nd are not that good until the oil heats up a bit btw.

[azzfox]

As said above, VN-VS T5's are WC T5's. The following diagram is taken from my VN Gregorys:



Yellow: 1st and 2nd gear syncro sets (note fibre rings)
Red: 3rd, 4th and 5th standard brass syncros
Green: obviously needle roller bearings

All signs point to it being a WC T5, which everyone uses an ATF in these days.

Mine shifts like crap when its cold and does get better when warm, but you can still feel some gear clash indicating not enough friction at the syncros. If all goes to plan Im picking up my order of lubrizol tomorrow and will post back results.

[stocky]

is this why i have to shift mega slowly into 2nd when the gearbox is real cold? i use castol manual gear oil

[Chirpstr]

Interesting there mate...Yeah keep us updated that would be great, although I remember reading somewhere that you only ad lubrizol when you have fitted new syncros?
I'm going to put gear oil in the VP tomorrow anyway because I'm sick of the noisy input shaft bearing so it should shut it up a bit lol but the VR which is a VP box aswell I might have a think about that before maybe trying ATF because come to think of it my first gear doesnt go in well even when warm. I just thought the syncro was gone but could get a bit more out of it with thinner oil.

[azzfox]

Stocky that could be why. But if its only when cold then thats not too bad.

True ATF is a bit noisy but im not overly fussed. Might even see some better fuel consumption being less drag (which is another reason they changed to ATF apparently). Lubrizol is a friction modifier so can only be better for the syncros either new or worn. The way my box is atm I couldnt care about longitivity lol as long as the shift quality improves Im happy.

[kniever]

what your saying about the gearbox's is true, i did a read up about the wc t5's a while ago to and will only use atf and lubrizoil, my mates vn v6 has gear oil in it and feels so much stiffer than mine.

my box is out of a vp ss and runs nice with atf, also got another order of lubrizoil should be in 2moro might have to try it with that Castrol Transmax Z that danja said

[azzfox]

Well the car got a good run today with fresh Dexron III + lubrizol. The shifts arent smoother, but much easier. With gear oil when downshifting to 2nd I used to have to hold it against 2nd for about 2 secs before it would slot in (literally). Now it pretty much goes in straight away. Im happy with the result and gear oil can kiss my behind.

Its not even that noisy. But then again lubrizol is pretty thick and would alter the viscosity of the ATF slightly.