keyless entry and start. potential problems or a good idea? opinions.

[old mate]

well, i went with my parents to test drive a new car. it was a toyota prado GXL.

now one of the features of it was keyless ignition and start. apparently the idea is you have the 'key' on you and when you get up to the door you just hold it and it unlocks. then you just jump in and press a button.

sure, it may be a good idea but both my dad and i are skeptical of it. on the test drive we decided to stop, and i jumped out with the 'key'. apparently the car is supposed to stop when it realises the key is not with the driver.

the car was able to drive over 70 metres away without stopping, but there was a light on the dash that was illuminated saying that the key wasn't in the vehicle. it seemed a little excessive as thats a pretty big distance.

if the car could still be driven with the key so far away, could it be a possibility that if the car was in the carpark with the owner walking towards the car (but still quite a distance away) that a theif could hold the doorhandle, getting the car to unlock then stealing whatever is in there and shutting the door and escaping leaving little trace, except that the car had already unlocked?

we didn't test this but really should have.

also, as you only have to press the button to start it, that obviously means that the steering lock (if it even has one) is electronically operated. we didn't test this but i wonder if the steering lock was unlocked when the car unlocks, or when you press the start button. if its when the car is unlocked this is a little worrying to me.

i think i might have my foil hat on but could this scenario occur.

coming from getting the groceries or whatever at a supermarket. walk out to the carpark and get around 50 metres from your car but the car not in view. bump into a friend or whatever and get stuck in a conversation for a few minutes. a fairly involved conversation and the thought of the car is not in your mind.

the theif, who had prior information on the keyless entry and start system and knew that you were the owner, walks casually up to the car and unlocks it. they can then look around the car for valuables and steal them. they could then put the gear shifter in neutral and push the car out of the park into other vehicles or even get their chronies to push the car into a wall (if the steering lock is disengaged when the car is unlocked).

if the car was able to be started from a distance (like seen on top gear) a theif could possibly get in and drive off for a certain distance or drive it into some stuff causing damage.

i know its drawing a long bow, but this isn't too far fetched

is it? in keeping to a regular stick the key in the ignition to disengage the steering lock and start, and having to press the button to unlock, aren't the risks of the above minimized?

am i crazy, or is this technology the start to some issues.

[vl_nick]

you will find that you need to be right next to the car for it to open. if you are only a coulpe of metres away it will not open.

[Stretchomatic]

ive always wondered about that, if it got 70 metres away, then in ideal situations a theif could even get it on a trailer no worries...probly never happen...but then thats what the movies are for.

[sleepa]

Is it an RF system where you have an RF card. I have heard with the systems that they don't auto lock meaning you have to manually lock it after getting out. Don't know if it is true with all but should check it out. Secondly They are meant to only unlock when you get within a few metres of the car so I doubt someone could get in unless you forgot to lock it.
Seems a little dodgy that it kept going for 70 metres without the key, I would have thought it should be like 5 metres.

[kalekale]

70 metres is pretty far, my garage is less than 70m away from my house. Would anyone be allowed to unlock it because my keys are in the 70m range? Is that how it works?

[axemurderer101]

had something similar happen where i work where we did some work on someones new prado or landcruiser. after the car was started the bloke left in another car while his wife paid for the work, bloke must of left the keys in his pocket when he left with the car running, so basically the car was still running with the key long gone. ended up calling the bloke to come back with the key cause we didnt know if the car would cut out or something while driving without the key

[danja]

My Corolla has the same feature, it works very well - you misunderstand some of the details:

sure, it may be a good idea but both my dad and i are skeptical of it. on the test drive we decided to stop, and i jumped out with the 'key'. apparently the car is supposed to stop when it realises the key is not with the driver.

the car was able to drive over 70 metres away without stopping, but there was a light on the dash that was illuminated saying that the key wasn't in the vehicle. it seemed a little excessive as thats a pretty big distance.

As soon as the key leaves the cabin, the car knows it's gone - you'll get a message on the dash saying "key not detected". I assume it lets it drive a short distance in case of an intermittent drop out of the signal while you're moving (say if your battery started to die).

if the car could still be driven with the key so far away, could it be a possibility that if the car was in the carpark with the owner walking towards the car (but still quite a distance away) that a theif could hold the doorhandle, getting the car to unlock then stealing whatever is in there and shutting the door and escaping leaving little trace, except that the car had already unlocked?

It's actually less likely than a conventional remote locking system, because you need to be within about 1m of the front doors or the boot for it to unlock. A conventional system many people might press the button further away from the car.

also, as you only have to press the button to start it, that obviously means that the steering lock (if it even has one) is electronically operated. we didn't test this but i wonder if the steering lock was unlocked when the car unlocks, or when you press the start button. if its when the car is unlocked this is a little worrying to me.

It unlocks once you start the engine, or you can disengage it by turn the the car "on" (without starting it, like a regular key) - you do this by pressing the start button without holding the brake (auto) or clutch in (manual). It's really just like a conventional car.

coming from getting the groceries or whatever at a supermarket. walk out to the carpark and get around 50 metres from your car but the car not in view. bump into a friend or whatever and get stuck in a conversation for a few minutes. a fairly involved conversation and the thought of the car is not in your mind.

the theif, who had prior information on the keyless entry and start system and knew that you were the owner, walks casually up to the car and unlocks it. they can then look around the car for valuables and steal them. they could then put the gear shifter in neutral and push the car out of the park into other vehicles or even get their chronies to push the car into a wall (if the steering lock is disengaged when the car is unlocked).

Can't happen, as said above you have to be within 1m of the car. You can't even start it if the key isn't inside the cabin (ie- it can be within 1m and allow the car to be opened, but still won't allow it to start till you get inside).

am i crazy, or is this technology the start to some issues.

I'm going with the tin foil hat argument. My impression of the system having used it for a while now is that it's very well though out, and no more vulnerable than a traditional lock barrel ignition. The only potential weakness is the steering lock now being a electronically actuated rather than mechanically, and that's only because it could potentially fail. Then again, so can anything else in the car, like the steering or the accelerator - and the advantages of keyless entry (seriously, it's great once you transition to it) far outweigh this weakness.