Why?

[stevebutler]

Ive never really thought about it before but i have recently noticed that you always see anything about a Falcon 6 always mentions "turbo". For example, "ED Falcon turbo burnout" or "turbo EL Falcon sliding".

Now, i dont wish to make a Holden vs Ford, Commy vs Falcon thread, as i like Falcons as well, had a difficult time looking through ED, EL and BA Falcons before buying my VT.

I'm just wondering why is this so? you never hear of a turbo commodore, why did they build turbo Falcons and not turbo commodores? was the stock commodore motor always better/faster, than the falcon motor? Always hear about people says their falcons are faster than the equivelant commodores which may ne the case, but 80% of the time the falcon is a turbo where the commy is not.

[STEEV888]

commodores did come out supercharged. an entire 17kw gain woah...
also the full iron ford motor can handle the extra power of the turbo without any drastic modifications. if they wanted to gain say 300 kw from a 3.8 or 3.6 commy engine there would be alot of refurbished bits in there that would outweigh the cost of the car being produced.
room could possibly be an issue also ? i know the fords have a lot of space on the exhaust side.

also ford are cop outs.
err my 6's are to slow, TURBO
err my v8's cannot pass fuel emissions and keep up with the competition, SUPERCHARGER

[ephect]

first turbo commo was the vl calais

[Krisp]

commodores did come out supercharged. an entire 17kw gain woah...
also the full iron ford motor can handle the extra power of the turbo without any drastic modifications. if they wanted to gain say 300 kw from a 3.8 or 3.6 commy engine there would be alot of refurbished bits in there that would outweigh the cost of the car being produced.
room could possibly be an issue also ? i know the fords have a lot of space on the exhaust side.

also ford are cop outs.
err my 6's are to slow, TURBO
err my v8's cannot pass fuel emissions and keep up with the competition, SUPERCHARGER

forget about the 3.8 v6 buicks coming out as turbo in america and able to handle bulk power. very early series one vn v6's were built for turbo

[05 Senator]

arent fords straight sixes rather than "v" like commys?

[bogan_vk]

i thought the first turbo commodore was the vh cdt (country dealer team) starfire 4cyl turbo

[bogan_vk]

arent fords straight sixes rather than "v" like commys?

yep straight sixes.

[Krisp]

i thought the first turbo commodore was the vh cdt (country dealer team) starfire 4cyl turbo

the hand built ones were built for turbo, but didnt run a turbo

[bogan_vk]

i thought they did because there was one for sale up the road from me with a suck through turbo setup on it and was told it was a factory setup i know for sure the 6 cylinder cdt commodores are all turbos just googled it to confirm it and theres quite a few original turbo cdt commodores come up.

[Calaber]

I suspect one reason why Ford has developed the turbo'd engines and Holden hasn't is that Ford has stuck with the same basic 6 cylinder in-line engine formula from the very first XK Falcons, whereas Holden has switched from the old in-line OHV grey motors then red motors, to the OHC Nissans, back to OHV Buicks and Ecotecs and finally the quad OHC Alloytecs over the same period. That's a lot of changes in engine configurations and goes against continued development of any single design.

The Falcon engine is still manufactured on the same production line and uses the same bore centres as the earliest engines, and they have developed the engine through the alloy head, single OHC then twin OHC to get to today's engine. This sort of continuity has enabled Ford to spend more time upgrading and perfecting the basic design, hence the Turbo with its incredible output.

If Holden had gone down that same road, perhaps they might have developed a factory turbo model too, rather than just releasing the RB30 as a one-off model.

[JSTCOZ]

arent fords straight sixes rather than "v" like commys?

They all are up unitl next year (2011) when they have ditched the Aussie straight 6 and are now importing american v6's (btw there new BOSS, beats the crap out of the HSV sadly)

[soop]

They all are up unitl next year (2011) when they have ditched the Aussie straight 6 and are now importing american v6's (btw there new BOSS, beats the crap out of the HSV sadly)

Get this lad a bib...

Most falcons weren't turbo charged from the factory up until the XR6-t anyway.
From everything I've seen most EL EB falcons are turbo charged after the fact. Happy to be proven wrong though.

[nemesis_adrasteia]

i thought the first turbo commodore was the vh cdt (country dealer team) starfire 4cyl turbo

they also turbocharged XF falcons

[stevebutler]

arent fords straight sixes rather than "v" like commys?

yes, its just a little something ive noticed is that ford always do a turbo 6, holden rarely do. Im just wondering why (i dont like turbos, reckon theyre ricer garbage, would rather have a v8)

[stevebutler]

Its my firm belief that falcons inline 6 is a much better engine, always has been. You only need to look at the NEW VE commodore against the FG Falcon, Commodores new ecodrive engine sacrificed nearly 40 kw to the Falcon and only used 0.1l/100km less fuel. Holden need to stick with the VZ engine i reckon and just develope it further.

Or even back further the to pre VL red inline engines, they seem very rough i know by todays standards but back in those days the engine back in the x series falcons was just the same, ford just stuck with it as previously mentioned so ahd a much better platform to perfect their power plants. Maybe Holden should have followed the same philosophy, would be interesting to see what that old red engine would look like today if they had.

Sorry guys i just like musing

[bogan_vk]

i dont know about that they are guarranteed to blow a headgasket every 200,000 klms are a nightmare to work on when they build them they dont think about simple things like how the #### your going to change a set of leads putting the dizzy and coil under the intake manifold near impossible to get to ,fuel pumps constantly shit themselves and thats only a couple of things that go wrong with fords i know my last car was a pos el xr6

[stevebutler]

i dont know about that they are guarranteed to blow a headgasket every 200,000 klms are a nightmare to work on when they build them they dont think about simple things like how the #### your going to change a set of leads putting the dizzy and coil under the intake manifold near impossible to get to ,fuel pumps constantly shit themselves and thats only a couple of things that go wrong with fords i know my last car was a pos el xr6

hm thats interesting, i know generally fords do their heads at around 250,000 and commys at 300,000. Simply because the long inline head is more prone to warping. I like the old red inline 6 though, my dads mates got one powering his boat, works a treat.

[STEEV888]

If Holden had gone down that same road, perhaps they might have developed a factory turbo model too, rather than just releasing the RB30 as a one-off model.

made me think... imagine if holden followed nissan and the vn - vs had rb25t and instead of the v8's had the rb26tt YUCK!

They all are up unitl next year (2011) when they have ditched the Aussie straight 6 and are now importing american v6's (btw there new BOSS, beats the crap out of the HSV sadly)

i know this is NOT a ford vs holden thread but you can chuck 10k into an LS3 and get 350kw at the wheels (460 odd fwkw) with maximum reliability just a bit thirstier

how much would it cost to do the BOSS ? i know throw a smaller pulley on it.. but will the engine last considering they needed to do so much maintenance to the design just so it would handle 335 fwkw

[JSTCOZ]

i know this is NOT a ford vs holden thread but you can chuck 10k into an LS3 and get 350kw at the wheels (460 odd fwkw) with maximum reliability just a bit thirstier

how much would it cost to do the BOSS ? i know throw a smaller pulley on it.. but will the engine last considering they needed to do so much maintenance to the design just so it would handle 335 fwkw

Stock though the best HSV gets owned by the new FPV with their new engine is what im saying. lol

[Jezza]

KPM (King Park Motorsport) in adeaide were the first to get the new fpv and it sounds like it can handle 400rwkws no problem and the new BOSS motor isnt intercooled so that when the GT-HO is released it will be and it could be a monster but its the falcons chassis that lets the car down as the HSV will corner much better then the current falcon

[VNSS90]

wat about the w427 wouldent that own a new fg gt?

[STEEV888]

Stock though the best HSV gets owned by the new FPV with their new engine is what im saying. lol

yeah i know =P

KPM (King Park Motorsport) in adeaide were the first to get the new fpv and it sounds like it can handle 400rwkws no problem and the new BOSS motor isnt intercooled so that when the GT-HO is released it will be and it could be a monster but its the falcons chassis that lets the car down as the HSV will corner much better then the current falcon

400 rw? nice! they possibly made it extra strong coz they knew what ppl would do with it
and the GT-HO got the go ahead ? thats pretty cool also would be nice to see what comes out.
if its from fpv then we can compare it to the older w427's
if its not then we can compare it to the new walkinshaws

wat about the w427 wouldent that own a new fg gt?

its in a different league and price bracket same at the 480kw walkinshaws so there can be no direct comparison

but i must say the hrt w427 monaros that were going to be released but only 2 ever made... now that would be a weapon.
too bad they cost 500k each to manufacture.

[MR.HG]

yeah i know =P




but i must say the hrt w427 monaros that were going to be released but only 2 ever made... now that would be a weapon.
too bad they cost 500k each to manufacture.

350k to manufacture and at first thats what they thought they would retail for. But the retail was 500k and u can get a lambo for that The original Prototype is in the holden museum and ive seen the other one just last week, they are a weapon alright! Awesome piece of machinery, sad it never took off.

[MR.HG]

clearly no holden nuts on today reading this thread

[Tweetbix]

At least HSV hasnt gone to forced induction yet to get more power where as FPV have had to use it. And from memory in the new Coyote engines there is no extra room which means no stroking the engine.