commodore development

[DUBHSTATO]

hey all,
im doing a research project on "how has the holden commodore developed over the last 30 years?" and i was just wondering was everyones opinion was, being the most noticable and important development point through each model.
For example; the jump from vy - vz included the change from the ecotec engine (producing 152kw i believe?) to the change of the alloytec (producing 190kw, but using less fuel) but suttle changes including revised tail lights, changed headlights and dash changes.
Could someone with the know-how please help me out? feel free to add anything missing!

VB -- VE models
cheers guys

[vxcustom]

Great project from my understanding the commodore was originally developed from the opel in europe. One of the early criticisms of the vb - vr commodore was the rear suspension setup which was taken directly from the opel then bits removed and finally a single panhard rod to replace all the removed parts. This had the horrible effect of moving the diff up to two inches left or right depending upon wether the suspension was being compressed or expanded. The VB was a combination of old parts left over from the hz/wb holden (mainly chev parts) and the opel. The VC was the first of the real cvommodores with all new design up front engine wise but still retained the rear opel based suspension.

[Cameron P]

try wikipedia.. has all the different models on the one page... info like what changed and stuff is on there good luck with the project

[DUBHSTATO]

thanks for replies guys (: helped me out a bit (:
i have been on almost every single commodore - wikipedia - holden site, you name it i tryed it, but the information about the commodore originating from the opel design and using opels rear suspension setup through vb - vr was very handy! thats the development im struggling to find elsewhere :/
project is coming along nicely too

[DevilDRake]

"For example; the jump from vy - vz included the change from the ecotec engine (producing 152kw i believe?) to the change of the alloytec (producing 190kw, but using less fuel) but suttle changes including revised tail lights, changed headlights and dash changes. "


If it helps, the buick engine was replaced with Ecotec in the VS which was 152kw @ the fly, up until VY like you said, but the VZ's are 175kw standard, the SV6's are 190kw.. Then the VE's are 210kw or something like that.. Not sure on that one.

[ari666]

lets all not forget the change from an australia designed 253CI V8 (VC, VH) to a japanese designed (nissan) RB30DE EFI 6 cylinder (VL) which produced more power and used less fuel.

but it had the distinct downfall of being designed for a nissan and not a commodore. the radiators in the VL's were mounted too low, so a special procedure had to be done to get rid of the air lock in the cooling system if ever the owner flushed the cooling system. failure to remove the air lock meant the car would overheat and crack/warp the cylinder head. which happened.... a LOT.

just another example of holdens ingenuity. lol. they seem to be really good at taking other peoples tech and just throwing it into a car body and have a "lets see what happens" kind of attitude.

[nemesis_adrasteia]

"For example; the jump from vy - vz included the change from the ecotec engine (producing 152kw i believe?) to the change of the alloytec (producing 190kw, but using less fuel) but suttle changes including revised tail lights, changed headlights and dash changes. "


If it helps, the buick engine was replaced with Ecotec in the VS which was 152kw @ the fly, up until VY like you said, but the VZ's are 175kw standard, the SV6's are 190kw.. Then the VE's are 210kw or something like that.. Not sure on that one.

the holden 3800 was replaced by the ecotech V6, the holden 3800 is a buick derived engine, they were not built by buick they were built here in australia by holden

[ari666]

they were built here in australia by holden

just a thought, who built the lexun engines?

[nemesis_adrasteia]

just a thought, who built the lexun engines?

holden did

[Sabbath']

Have you tried contacting Holden themselves? Im sure they would have some sort of information pack they could send out that would have maybe some useful information in it. Or possibly get intouch with Lang Lang, see if they have any information they can give you about the testing of cars etc?

[Smitty]

rofpml........
are you guys making some of this up....??
like...The VB was a combination of old parts left over from the hz/wb holden (mainly chev parts) and the opel. The VC was the first of the real cvommodores with all new design up front engine wise but still retained the rear opel based suspension.
and
lets all not forget the change from an australia designed 253CI V8 (VC, VH) to a japanese designed (nissan) RB30DE EFI 6 cylinder (VL) which produced more power and used less fuel.

c'mon tell me you are just joking...right?

[Sabbath']

253 = 100kw
RB30 = 114 kw

And i'd say the fuel comment is pretty bang on aswell.

[Smitty]

253 = 100kw
RB30 = 114 kw

And i'd say the fuel comment is pretty bang on aswell.

VH 253 was rated at 115kw according to my sales brochure

[DUBHSTATO]

well from what i have been researching the comments arent too far off. they are all really helping it didnt click that i was researching commodores, and that one of the best places to get info was here haha
does anybody know why holden chose the nissan motor and design to develop the vl model commodore? seems like they hadnt thought it through untill there was comsumer problems. because from what i can see, the RB30D / RB30DT was the first commodore to come under the new emmisions laws and was fitted with the catalactic converter, was this the case?
and whats te go with the "lexcen" ? how did toyota get their badges on a commodore?

[Calaber]

well from what i have been researching the comments arent too far off. they are all really helping it didnt click that i was researching commodores, and that one of the best places to get info was here haha
does anybody know why holden chose the nissan motor and design to develop the vl model commodore? seems like they hadnt thought it through untill there was comsumer problems. because from what i can see, the RB30D / RB30DT was the first commodore to come under the new emmisions laws and was fitted with the catalactic converter, was this the case?
and whats te go with the "lexcen" ? how did toyota get their badges on a commodore?

That's an easy one to answer. Unleaded fuel was replacing leaded during 1986 and Holden had to either re-engineer a very old and low powered engine (ie 202) to run on unleaded, or look for an alternative. Updating the 202 was uneconomical, so Holden searched far and wide for an engine of a certain physical size and capacity (it had to fit an existing body-shell, after all) and there was nothing modern enought in the GM range of engines that suited. The exchange rate between Aus and Japan was favourable at the time (1984-85) and the Nissan engine suited the purpose at the right price.

The Lexcen arose as the result of the "Button Plan", a Hawke Government initiative designed to reduce and rationalise the number of local manufacturers and models in the mid '80's. Holden and Toyota entered into an agreement under the name United Australian Manufacturers/ing (can't remember the exact name) and started sharing models. Toyota got the Commodore, slightly restyled, as the Lexcen, to sell as its range topping model. Holden got the Camry (Apollo) and Corolla (Nova) to sell as its mid and small models. After a few years, this arrangement fell through, because Holden had improved its financial position and was able to "go it alone" again.

[Hangman]

lets all not forget the change from an australia designed 253CI V8 (VC, VH) to a japanese designed (nissan) RB30DE EFI 6 cylinder (VL) which produced more power and used less fuel.

The 253 was already gone in the VK. I dunno why you think it was replaced by the RB30 in the VL. The 3.0L RB30 replaced the 3.3L six.

[ari666]

rofpml........

doesnt take much then hey? small things...

VH 253 was rated at 115kw according to my sales brochure

which was probably true... when running it on high octane super

[ari666]

The 253 was already gone in the VK. I dunno why you think it was replaced by the RB30 in the VL. The 3.0L RB30 replaced the 3.3L six.

yeah, i skipped an engine so sue me

[1TUFVS]

yeah, i skipped an engine so sue me

Will do!

But am I correct in saying that the RB30 was far less reliable than the Straight-6 "Grey" motor in the VK? I heard that the RB30 when fitted in the skyline recieved far less mechanical errors than when fitted in the VL..

And if you wanted a large monent in Commodore history discuss the VT. Record breaking sales for Holden since the HQ kingswood, the best selling Commodore to date. Another large moment is the VR Acclaim, which was the first Australian car to feature a driver's airbag, and the VS Acclaim which was the first Australian car to feature both passenger and dual airbags.

[walesy]

And if you wanted a large monent in Commodore history discuss the VT.

and don't forget the series II with the all new alloy 5.7ltr V8 replacing the 30 year old design of the 5ltr

[Calaber]

Will do!

But am I correct in saying that the RB30 was far less reliable than the Straight-6 "Grey" motor in the VK? I heard that the RB30 when fitted in the skyline recieved far less mechanical errors than when fitted in the VL..

And if you wanted a large monent in Commodore history discuss the VT. Record breaking sales for Holden since the HQ kingswood, the best selling Commodore to date. Another large moment is the VR Acclaim, which was the first Australian car to feature a driver's airbag, and the VS Acclaim which was the first Australian car to feature both passenger and dual airbags.

Ummm - the "grey" motor was the old sideplater used from 48/215 to the EJ.

You mean the old red/blue/black six, which ran from the EH to the VK. A totally different motor. That engine was extremely durable, though some of the cost cutting which took place over the years affected the reliability somewhat. (eg replacing the steel distributor drive gear with a nylon one - great idea, not!) The engine had the virtue of utter simplicity and lengthy refinement over nearly 23 years. When Holden installed the RB30 in the Commodore, some aspects of the installation, such as the cooling system, were not so good, as already pointed out. Combine a dodgy cooling system with the fact that the engine had an alloy head and it was possible, if the engine overheated, to end up with a warped head, which was virtually unknown in the old Holden motor, because it was all cast iron.

[Sabbath']

But am I correct in saying that the RB30 was far less reliable than the Straight-6 "Grey" motor in the VK? I heard that the RB30 when fitted in the skyline recieved far less mechanical errors than when fitted in the VL..

As above (10 Characters)

but it had the distinct downfall of being designed for a nissan and not a commodore. the radiators in the VL's were mounted too low, so a special procedure had to be done to get rid of the air lock in the cooling system if ever the owner flushed the cooling system. failure to remove the air lock meant the car would overheat and crack/warp the cylinder head. which happened.... a LOT.
.