Ricers... are they really that bad?

[DAKSTER]

Rice. Is it really that bad?

This will get a few bites... I've been looking at the Ricer thread and I think some of them arent too bad at all. Some are freaking disgusting of course too lol

We all like to personalise our cars. We like to make them individual, something uniquely ours.
We do this by changing the paint colour, or adding some seat covers, or a fancy stereo, or trim and dash from earlier or later models. We spend a bunch of cash on go-faster bits and wheels. Or we fit kits...

So long as the end result isnt too ridiculous, I fail to see the harm in it. Obviously you dont put a VE Calais front end on a HQ.. it would look bloody silly. But you can put a WB nose on it, and it will look good, because its the same basic car. Just dont spoil it by painting it pink with multicoloured stick-on graphics..

I'm over those who call my VS a ricer coz its got a VX kit. I think it will look good when I'm done with it, and so do the people who PM me asking where I got the various bits for it. They are just afraid to say it in the main forum because a select group of people just love to flame anyone who dares to be different.

We used to put VB Commodore noses onto HQ panelvans in the late 70s, and they earned a fair bit of street cred.They didnt look so hot, people later switched to the Chev Monza nose which suited the car better. Everyone admired the engineering and individuality of them though.

Yes, there are limits. Metre high wings look bad on ANY car. But if you like them, I say put them on, and let me and everyone else laugh. Its your right, its your car, its your taste. I will just admire the workmanship if its good, regardless of whether it suits my personal taste. Never mind what others think!

Flameproof suit is on Does anyone agree with me?

[Calaber]

You're right about people having the right and freedom to do what they please with their cars. It's just that some of them look so hideous that they should never see the light of day, yet their owners think they are really shit hot. It's common around my way to see older Mitsubishi Lancer coupes with the standard ricer equipment of Altezza tail-lights, body kits and cannons. None of them look attractive, yet the cars stand out for all the wrong reasons.

I think there's more to Ricers than just ugly modifications to the car, too. They also seem to require a certain look for the driver. Baseball cap on backwards and P plates seem to be automatic equipment for the ricers around here. Cannons, ugly cheap Asian alloys - all seem to be standard.

They can do what they like with their cars. It would just be nice if they could drive the damned things sensibly.

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

You will get this on just about every forum you look at. What ever make or style the forum is about, the people on that forum will call just about every other style retarded. No different here. This is a Commodore forum, anything that is not a Commodore gets rejected by the majority of people because they have joined a Commodore forum to enjoy and discuss everything Commodore.

[ari666]

We all like to personalise our cars. We like to make them individual, something uniquely ours.

i have spent the last 2 or so years, trying to bring my impala back to stock after someone "personalised" (read; smashed) it.

the problem i have with a lot of ricers is the fact they change companents due to the fact that they resemble racing components, and in doing so, reduce the peformace/safety.

i do appreciate that they stick a bunch of stickers on the doors to warn everyone about their faulty components, and to avoid a potentially hazardous car.

(blah blah me, importing cars since 96' etc) tein/arc/hks etc suspension is HORRIBLE. they tend to die after 60k kms and people continue to drive on them with zero oil left. thinking they are still king ding-a-ling cos of their expensive suspension. and often, when it comes to cars like toyota chasers and EVO's, aftermarket suspension really degrades their levels of grip, due to the fact that toyota and mitsubishi got it reeeealy right with their stock setup.

then you have 3 inch exhausts, which if fitted to an NA car, or a stock boost turbo car, actually makes it a little slower off take-off.

then you have cheap blow-off valves, where the seals cook after a few 1000 k's and then vent boost even when you dont want them to

then you have crap pod filter that just suck in hot air

etc

etc
etc

[HarmlessMuffinMan]

Don't know about anyone else, but reading through the first post, I got the impression of: "Its ok to modify your car as long as you don't rice it" x.X

[wraith]

Don't even start with that hot air and pod bs...

[jamesmp]

Most people stereo-type the Commodore driver as some who has tattoos and wears shorts and thongs everywhere and swerves in and out of traffic. I guess what I'm saying is we can stereo-type all rice burner owners too, but at the end of the day, we could end up being just as wrong about them as they are about us!

[wraith]

Most people stereo-type the Commodore driver as some who has tattoos and wears shorts and thongs everywhere and swerves in and out of traffic. I guess what I'm saying is we can stereo-type all rice burner owners too, but at the end of the day, we could end up being just as wrong about them as they are about us!

How do you know what I look like.. stalker much

[DAKSTER]

I'm saying that because one of us like Altezza lights and the other doesn't, that doesn't make it automatically wrong or right.
Some of us who are purists think nothing that wasn't made by GM shouldn't be on a Holden. Others think Holden got it wrong occasionally..
I'm not a purist

I think I like the later model nose on mine because it reminds me a bit of the front of my WB panelvan lol.. I had a fibreglass flip front Monza on it, loved that car. The basic lines of the donor VXR8 and the VS are similar, the kits blend in OK. If a Ford freak or a granny drove past they would have no clue they weren't looking at an original kit. Its only Commodore freaks that know better, and I happen to like the combined look. I think its got a very bulky, aggressive look, but its still not too fussy or over the top.

I don't like the style of my Altezza tail-lights, when I find something that is as highly visible as those but looks a bit less Japanese I will buy it. I prefer them to the originals though, purely on visibility grounds.. I prefer for the person behind me to have no doubt when I am stopping or turning.. tinting standard lights is madness in my view! It looks good but the whole point of lights is to have light visible..

The modern headlights, HID arguments aside, look great. If you are a HID hater, don't put them in, you will still get much better lighting from standard H4 globes than the original.

Its going to have a subtle paint job, white with a bit of green, nothing too gaudy and no graphics. Its definitely not going to have any badges, stickers or Japanese characters on it either lol.

BUT.. if I was to buy a Skyline, and I have been tempted before, just to see how hard these ricers really can go.. I might think differently. Probably not, because as already said, its part of a sub-culture too. Its just another extension of the whole GM v Ford thing.. you are usually in one group or the other and it depends a lot on what your peers drive I guess.

[Darren_L]

I guess it comes down to whether you
1. modify your car the way you want it
2. modify it hoping to impress others
3. or a bit of both

I probably fall into category 3 in that I modify my car the way I want it, but hope that others appreciate the mods too.
But if your style is a bit left of field compared to the majority, then you are going to have to be prepared for criticism. We (car enthusiasts) are a rather critical bunch and usually tend to say it as we see it

[VYMAD]

I think if it makes you happy then do it. It is your car. I have redone the entire interior of the VY and I love it, mind you it isn't racing inspired. They are just little things that I have done that:

1. I enjoy doing.
2. I get satisfaction out of seeing and using the end result.

A set of mag wheels could be called "RICE", cosidering all race cars have wide wheels for enhanced traction.
IMO, some Alteeza tail lights don't look too bad. Though I would never put a set on my car.
Boot spoilers aren't really going to increase traction by forcing the rear end down, unless you are doing speeds of above say 140km/h. Yet so many new cars come out of the factory with them on nowadays. A spoiler is RICE, Racing Inspired Cosmetic Enhancement. But if the owner of that car likes it, then why not?
There are so many things we do to our cars that many people consider silly or a waste of time, effort and money, yet we like these mods or we wouldn't do it.
I reckon stuff what other people reckon, there is always going to be critisism of any mod or enhancement, but if you like it, go for it!
BTW, this DOES NOT include or make it ok to put Chev badges on a Holden!!! Just personal preference. LOL. But if the Chev badge person likes it, then who am I to critsize?

[H4Z4RD]

I think what ever looks best in the eye of the owner is the best guide, though the owner may just has to prepare for the ridicule from purists or people with taste!

And my Holden badges will be staying exactly where they are! Just may be changing colour...

[WNTDVT]

i have spent the last 2 or so years, trying to bring my impala back to stock after someone "personalised" (read; smashed) it.

the problem i have with a lot of ricers is the fact they change companents due to the fact that they resemble racing components, and in doing so, reduce the peformace/safety.

i do appreciate that they stick a bunch of stickers on the doors to warn everyone about their faulty components, and to avoid a potentially hazardous car.

(blah blah me, importing cars since 96' etc) tein/arc/hks etc suspension is HORRIBLE. they tend to die after 60k kms and people continue to drive on them with zero oil left. thinking they are still king ding-a-ling cos of their expensive suspension. and often, when it comes to cars like toyota chasers and EVO's, aftermarket suspension really degrades their levels of grip, due to the fact that toyota and mitsubishi got it reeeealy right with their stock setup.then you have 3 inch exhausts, which if fitted to an NA car, or a stock boost turbo car, actually makes it a little slower off take-off.

then you have cheap blow-off valves, where the seals cook after a few 1000 k's and then vent boost even when you dont want them to

then you have crap pod filter that just suck in hot air

etc

etc
etc

Upon just what evidence are you basing these claims? Yes, I know you've been importing cars so you may have seen these components in poor shape.

The only reason coilovers require premature rebuilds is if they're setup incorrectly and/or are used for track work as they obviously undergo much higher workloads in such conditions. When I speak of the setup, I do refer to dealing with JDM coilovers as they're much stiffer and when driving on rough roads they should be adjusted to allow for this or obviously the wear rate will be dramatically increased.

Any other reasons why those brands you mention are horrible? I'm interested to hear this as HKS have some of the best coilovers on the market. Obviously all aftermarket brands have higher and lower spec products and you DO get what you pay for when it comes to this, regardless of the quality of the brand at question.

Lastly, "aftermarket suspension really degrades their levels of grip". While the setup in evo's is great at a stock level, once you look at increasing power levels and utilising the car for track duties etc, it does have it limits. Get a GOOD set of coilovers that are fully adjustable and you're laughing as the handling capabilities are greatly increased, no questions about it. Couple that with a GOOD set of strut/body braces and these cars are taken to a whole other level.

With respect to GOOD coilovers, I think this post sums my thoughts on this up very well....

"The problem is most people who buy the cheap coilovers don't race. They drive the car around on the street and proclaim how awesome they are based off taking a few off-ramps and 90-degree turns at traffic lights. Well, unfortunately, there is nothing they do on the street that can remotely compare to proper track use, so we don't get actual meaningful feedback. We get people who like the lowered look and think their car handles like an F1 car, but in actuality they have handling that in no way compares to a proper coilover setup. However, since they don't race, then does it really matter? Probably not, as long as they THINK they're happy..."

Also, there's nothing wrong with an enclosed pod setup operating with a decent intake. I'll agree that they are underperformers when left exposed to the engine bay, why waste your time?!

I think the 'ricer' concept refers to those cars which have modifications on the basis that they are 'blingy, flashy and make my car look fast' (i.e. loud & typically poorly made bodykits, massive 4" cannons for no good reason, neons, brembo caliper covers (LOL), gt style wings on street cars, knock-off chinese copy brand name parts etc...) and not on those which actually have good quality components for a proper reason.

Don't take any of the above the wrong way or anything but I'm very interested to hear your take on this.

[ari666]

Upon just what evidence are you basing these claims?

years of expierence, my friend. although you are entitled to your opinions:

I'm interested to hear this as HKS have some of the best coilovers on the market.

the best piece of shit on the market is still a piece of shit.

[WNTDVT]

Haha, was expecting something a little more substantial that that.

I know I'm entitled to my opinion, as are you. I'm just intrigued by your views and would love to hear a proper explanation/reason for them.

Obviously when it comes to coilovers and actual user experience (perhaps even some track experience) you've had little to none!

Would you care to highlight exactly how coilover systems are pieces of shit? By means other than saying "they wear out quick" yada yada yada.

Again, I'm just intrigued by your views and the reasoning behind them, that's all.

[HarmlessMuffinMan]

How do you know what I look like.. stalker much

I was thinking the same thing... Dunno about the Swerving in and out of traffic.. Though Tattoo, check, Shorts all the time, check... And thongs (Sometimes, except when fishing) check

[dumpedvs]

Im failing to see the point of this thread..

[jakstas]

So... i own a commodore.

It got coilovers. And altezza headlights. And a different model front bar. And Rear boot garnish. And tail lights. And a vented bonnet, made of fiberglass. And a different engine out of another model all togeather. And interior trim that was never ment to be in my model car. And aftermarket wheels. And a different gearbox to what came out in it. I actually took my manual out, and put an auto IN. Id like to know if thats considered rice?

[Sabbath']

So... i own a commodore.

It got coilovers. And altezza headlights. And a different model front bar. And Rear boot garnish. And tail lights. And a vented bonnet, made of fiberglass. And a different engine out of another model all togeather. And interior trim that was never ment to be in my model car. And aftermarket wheels. And a different gearbox to what came out in it. I actually took my manual out, and put an auto IN. Id like to know if thats considered rice?

Pretty much.

[jakstas]

Feel free to check out the build thread of my 530rwhp SS. VTL53 CV8z front, LS3 conversion + more

I guess, the point of my posts, is dont always be so quick to judge. Let them mod their cars how they chose. It really has no effect on you. Alot of my friends drive imports. Some quick, some slow. Some do a 18sec 1/4mile, but thump out 130db+ at sound comps.

Everyone drives the best car they can afford, and mods it to the best they can in their eyes with resources availible.

Thank the man, who said "Cant we all just get along?" lol

[DAKSTER]

lol that wasn't fair you entrapped him.

Love your car .. awesome job congrats.

..although I have to say I don't like the bonnet. Not because its not original, it just doesn't suit my taste. That's ok, I don't mind personalising it....wanna swap?

[ari666]

Obviously when it comes to coilovers and actual user experience (perhaps even some track experience) you've had little to none!

*sigh* i wasnt going to get into an online argument, but i have more time this morning so may as well.

so we will take a race car a start with. the car is stripped down before the race, and the suspension set up to suit the track. if it has lots of bumps, or is flat and straight, or has multiple tight corners, then the suspension setup is adjusted to suit.
1. the stock upper and lower wishbones are completely replaced with lighter weight adjustable units, which have pillow balls rather than the stock rubber bushings.
2. the castor arms would also be replaced with units fitted with pillow balls
3. the sway bars are completley replaced, new sway bar to chassis links are fitted, depending on track surfaces, but lets just say they are neolathane greasable units.
4. strut bars are fitted to the tops of the towers
5. all seams are seam welded
6. the brake boosters are braced, either via the RHS strut tower or via the strut braces.
7. tie rod ends replaced with pillow balls.. bugger this, lets just say that ALL factory silicone filled rubber bushings/ball joints etc are replaced with brass... this just saved me typing cos this thread is a waste of my time.

ok, so after all of that stuff is fitted, then you go ahead and fit something that looks like this:


you adjust it fully for the track surface/conditions, drive around and have a great afternoon.. then you take it back to the workshop and strip it all down to make it ready for the next meet.



this is what an average ricer thinks is an imporvement to his suspension:


end user coil-overs are rubbish to start with. coupled with the fact that most douches (yourself excluded of course) dont bother up-spec'ing their bushes/ball joints/ets, which places uneven strain on the weaker components and wears them out UNBELIEVEABLY quickly, then they have the struts set to full hard and run with stock sway bars, which is just frikken stupid. THEN to top it all off, they are not driving it on a track, they are not breaking it down after each day of driving, they are just driving it each day, day after day after day without inspecting their suspension, completely oblivious to the fact that they have accelerated wear on every other component on their car and it as now degraded it to the point where a stock car would out corner, out stop and out accelerate their POS.

the biggest problem with coil overs are the owners that fit them to their cars. dampening is such an import part of the suspension setup and cars like evo's and chasers have suspension which i believe to be works of art. next time i have a chaser up on the hoist i will show the the multi-link rear suspension... then after you see that try and explain to me how fitting an adjustable dampening rate set of coil overs will help. considering itll throw the balance of the rear suspension to the complete shithouse, unless you got through the entire link setup and adjust each one according to the new rate.

96% of cars i get coming in with coil overs have a set of aftermarket rims and thats it. no brakes, nor bushes, no braces. they handle like shit, clunk over bumps, hurt your back driving... but at leats the kids come in and go "OOOHH its got purple coil overs on it, thats good quality, best coilovers available"

if you would like me to back up my opinions, come down and visit my worksop. you live in melbourne. you can even have some of the shitty coil overs i have stripped off, before i throw them in the bin.

[wraith]

Really if you enjoy the modifications you have done to your vehicle then so be it. Who gives a stuff what other people think.

[WNTDVT]

*sigh* i wasnt going to get into an online argument, but i have more time this morning so may as well.

so we will take a race car a start with. the car is stripped down before the race, and the suspension set up to suit the track. if it has lots of bumps, or is flat and straight, or has multiple tight corners, then the suspension setup is adjusted to suit.
1. the stock upper and lower wishbones are completely replaced with lighter weight adjustable units, which have pillow balls rather than the stock rubber bushings.
2. the castor arms would also be replaced with units fitted with pillow balls
3. the sway bars are completley replaced, new sway bar to chassis links are fitted, depending on track surfaces, but lets just say they are neolathane greasable units.
4. strut bars are fitted to the tops of the towers
5. all seams are seam welded
6. the brake boosters are braced, either via the RHS strut tower or via the strut braces.
7. tie rod ends replaced with pillow balls.. bugger this, lets just say that ALL factory silicone filled rubber bushings/ball joints etc are replaced with brass... this just saved me typing cos this thread is a waste of my time.

ok, so after all of that stuff is fitted, then you go ahead and fit something that looks like this:


you adjust it fully for the track surface/conditions, drive around and have a great afternoon.. then you take it back to the workshop and strip it all down to make it ready for the next meet.



this is what an average ricer thinks is an imporvement to his suspension:


end user coil-overs are rubbish to start with. coupled with the fact that most douches (yourself excluded of course) dont bother up-spec'ing their bushes/ball joints/ets, which places uneven strain on the weaker components and wears them out UNBELIEVEABLY quickly, then they have the struts set to full hard and run with stock sway bars, which is just frikken stupid. THEN to top it all off, they are not driving it on a track, they are not breaking it down after each day of driving, they are just driving it each day, day after day after day without inspecting their suspension, completely oblivious to the fact that they have accelerated wear on every other component on their car and it as now degraded it to the point where a stock car would out corner, out stop and out accelerate their POS.

the biggest problem with coil overs are the owners that fit them to their cars. dampening is such an import part of the suspension setup and cars like evo's and chasers have suspension which i believe to be works of art. next time i have a chaser up on the hoist i will show the the multi-link rear suspension... then after you see that try and explain to me how fitting an adjustable dampening rate set of coil overs will help. considering itll throw the balance of the rear suspension to the complete shithouse, unless you got through the entire link setup and adjust each one according to the new rate.

96% of cars i get coming in with coil overs have a set of aftermarket rims and thats it. no brakes, nor bushes, no braces. they handle like shit, clunk over bumps, hurt your back driving... but at leats the kids come in and go "OOOHH its got purple coil overs on it, thats good quality, best coilovers available" lol - absolute gold!

if you would like me to back up my opinions, come down and visit my worksop. you live in melbourne. you can even have some of the shitty coil overs i have stripped off, before i throw them in the bin.

Much better!

Don't take my little dig to heart, I didn't feel I was going to get a decent response without it's inclusion though

I completely agree with what you're saying however I think to throw around comments like you did saying that coilovers are shit blah blah blah is a little silly, especially considering when plenty of people around here would read it and take it on face value and then preach that view for the rest of their lives to whoever will listen without having actually experienced the units themselves.

You hit the nail on the head with the user comment, same applies to most performance parts as well. The problem is that most people are massive tightasses and are prepared to take the cheap route and overlook important aspects of modification. It's a shame really and especially when dealing with high-performance cars because it's not doing them any justice either!!

The second biggest problem (which comes back to the first) with coilovers is the fact that probably 80% + of people are fitting them for the wrong purpose - to lower the car - with complete disregard for vehicle geometry.

I think (along with quite possibly 99% of people i've come across with experience) that coilovers themselves (please do remember my comments about high end and low end) are great, and that the problems/your views (you're the first person I've come across who is so opposed to them!) only stem from their incorrect application and use rather than from poor design/concept.

I know you were using a track car example however I think your comparison of units is a little unfair considering those TTX units are typically in excess of ~$12k a set. There's plenty of people with track cars running less advanced systems with great results (you know I'm not talking about $1200 specials either!).

Just out of interest, which shop do you run/work for? You can PM me if you like.

Appreciate the response this time around!

[Sabbath']

lol that wasn't fair you entrapped him.

VX SS Badges on a VT
Painting the VT tail light garnish and claiming it's a VX item.
Blitz Bonnet
Altezza Front Lights
Monaro Bonnet on a VT

^ Yeap, all cosmetic enhancements.


Not that i cant appreciate the awesomeness of an LS3 in a VT, and the other stuff he's done to it, but for the sake of this thread