454 or LS1???

[ari666]

thinking about power for the impala. still dreaming at this stage, but things are coming together.

to put a 454 in, i just need to

• get a 454
• install it
• make headers

i have been told that the engine mounts are the same, transmission are the same. the diff ratio is suited to 454, front springs are suited to 454. all bolt ons like starter, alternator and pwr steering pump are direct swap. the whole conversion shouldnt cost more than 5k if i watch my pennies.

can someone pls help on what i would need to do an LS1 conversion. for example, is it manditory to run a later auto trans, or is there some way to hook it up to my powerglide. will the mounts of a LS1 be the same as a SBC?

i know there will need to be a loom run to an ecu, i can manage all that. i currently have silly diff gears 2.7 something i believe, how will that go with a stock LS1 cam

so many questions. it seems that an LS1 will cost less to start with, but im guessign there will be a lot of hidden costs i dont know about. could you all just throw me whatever info you have please. even links to people who have done it to HQ's or similar.

thanks

[VT-565]

Lazy big block all the way.
You won't even have to make extractors, buy them and bolt them on.

[Blown V6 Hatch]

454 BBC FTW!

Big Block in an Impala is pretty much a bolt in proposition, you can even buy extractors off the shelf. Nearly everything else off the 327 will be able to be utilised.

LS1, you will need:

Camaro rear well sump and oil pick up
Custom engine mounts (completely different to SBC and BBC)
Custom extractors
Custom power steer lines to mate the Commodore pump to the Impala box
Custom converter to mate the motor to the glide
Modified wiring loom & ECU (needs theft deterrent removed)
EFI fuel system (lift pump, surge tank, regulator and high pressure EFI fuel pump)
2nd fuel line
Thermo fans (no engine fan on an LS1)

That's about all i can think of off the top of my head, but there will be a fair few little bits and pieces needed to get it all up and running.

The only thing in the LS1's favour, it will bolt straight up to the Glide (apart from the converter) as it still shares turbo bolt pattern with early Chevs, but that is about the only similarity between an early Chev and an LS1. You don't need to run the late model trans, you can use the Glide, but i don't think the glide will be very well suited to an LS1 (especially with 2.77 diff gears) as in standard form they're pretty doughy down low, and with a Glide you need low down grunt to make the glide work.

If you go for the LS1, put a TH350 in it, it will work heaps better with the LS1.

Just put a Big Block in it and be done with it...

[chevyshubox]

I would defintley go for the Big Block but thats just me I must have had thirty of them in the last twenty years maybe more all the way up to a 632 . I agree with the above as Pacemaker make a set of extractors and so do Castle Auto electrics. I had a stock powerglide and convertor in my 62 chev years back and it handled it for a few years,even with me out thrashing it at the drags.
You might find it is a bit gutless with them diff gears but that is something you can change later.I eventually went to a turbo 350 and some 3.7 gears with a 2500 stall and it made a massive difference.(only used a turbo 350 in the 62 as it is a bolt in swap)
If I where you I would spend the extra bit on a turbo 400 but that could also be done later ,its much better with the lower first gear especially for a heavy car like that.

[Hangman]

454 BBC FTW!

This.

[MikeCuzzy]

Another vote for the 454

[OFF T4P]

454 would me mad. powerglide will bolt up apart from one bolt up the top wont line up. use a turbo 350 or 400 if going a ls1

[undersuspicion]

454 ftw, easy power. Shouldnt cost a whole lot more than the ls1 mate.

[Darren_L]

454 for sure, it belongs in a big yank tank, it will look a lot better than an ugly LS1 too.
the 454 will have big low down torque, and from what I recall you prefer old skool carbed engines anyway ?

[chevyshubox]

What bolt is that one. The one in the middle at the top , most glides dont have it anyway.

[Jonnii]

BBC will suit the whole build alot better. But why stop at 454? :P

[undersuspicion]

BBC will suit the whole build alot better. But why stop at 454? :P

on that note, how about a 572 bbc?

[Drawnnite]

dare i say more?

[ari666]

and from what I recall you prefer old skool carbed engines anyway ?

this is very true. weighing up the whole "fuel economy" issue. i have a friend who has a 454 in his chevy C10 and he has it all geared really low so he get amazing fuel economy. the LS1 im sure gets much better fuel economy, but its also something you dont see very often in these impalas. there are tonnes of 454 powered ones though, but im yet to see one with an LS1 (in oz anyway)

the LS1 looked like it might have been a cheaper upgrade, since the engines are around 3 grand less than the average 'good running' 454, but with all the other bits i didnt think about, its fast becoming the same, if not more expensive...

[Blown V6 Hatch]

LS1 will be more expensive by a long shot. There is a perfectly good reason why there are so many Big Block powered Impalas, because it's the only way to fly.

I do agree with chevyshubox though, i'd put a Turbo 400 in it, but that's just me.

[ari666]

most of the 'good runers' i have been looking at have had a trans attached. the only problem i can see with a turbo trans is the selector on the column. it only has D and 1 whereas a 350 or 400 would need 2 as well. although it doesnt seem like much of a problem, the pattern on the end of the steering column would mean i would either lose the ability to manually select 1 or the adjustments would be all out of whack. so then i would be looking at adding a new column from a later car. which are not cheap, IF you can find one.

its difficult to explain, but there is a circular piece of metal with grooves cut out of it which lock the selector. you pull the gear stick to release the lock and when you let go it falls into the closest depression. being a 2 speed, it only has two depressions to lock onto. neutral is a big 'free-moving' area then reverse, then park.

and no, there is no way i am going floor shift.

[Blown V6 Hatch]

Yeh, well it could be a bit of messing around making the shifter work, but if that's the case then just stick with the Glide. That doesn't change the engine choice though, Big Block all the way. Atleast with a Big Block, it won't be hampered by the Glide anywhere near as much as an LS1 would be.

[chevyshubox]

I recently did a 454 Turbo 700 swap in a 62 Chev Bel Air wagon and just used a B&M cable to operate the original coumn shift, It two had the Powerglide shift detent and I just left it that way.
I have also done this in a 56 Chev that had a 396 Turbo 400 and using a HG Column and just used a cable and it had the right detent for a 3 speed.
The detent on your column shift(that is the circular piece) should allow the column shift to go one more click anyway and just grind a bit more out for it to go further.
It is a bit of mucking around to do it but it is just a matter of making the levers move the same amount where the cable attaches, usually by drilling an extra hole or adding some length.
This is the 62 shift cable it runs of the original PG shift mechanism. It would usually be easy to just run it straight off the column but for this job it was easier this way.

Here is the trans end. Its a bit ugly but the car was sold shortly afterwards.

[ari666]

thanks man! how did you attach the cable to the other end?

[chevyshubox]

If you mean from the bracket to the column it just has the original rod that goes from the column to that bracket on the chassis then as you can see in the photo the cable just conects to that. It works really well and gets all 4 forward gears as well as N,R,P. . The bracket at the trans is just a piece of flat bar bent to suit the height of the lever on the trans.
When I did my 56 with a turbo 400 I just used the cable all the way from the steering column which is much easier, sorry I dont have any photos.

[someguy360]

Definitely go the big block ari.

Nothing better than that rough, lumpy idle of a carbied small/big block....you just don't get that on modern injection engines anymore (not unless you want to go all out on a cam package for an LS1)

IMO the 327 you have now is my favourite production engine......I personally think they have the best sound at idle when the carby is tuned correctly

[ari666]

sorry I dont have any photos.

nah appreciate the info anyways. giving me ideas. i can just slice the existing gear selector which is all bars and washers and hook up a cable. also i just relaised it may be possible to source just the bottom 'selector-clicky-thing' and gear display off a 68. which are the same, but 3 speed.

also someguy: the 327 is o.k. but to make power it needs to rev. this block is the small journal 327 which is weak as piss. also what i am more looking towards is fuel economy + power. with the 454 i can make the heads breathe, put some comp in and get a low-wide cam which will yield bagloads of torque at low RPM, and hopefully good horsepower without having to run too fast. which in turn means less fuel used. i can gear it low so it cruises at around 1500rpm and sits just on the start of its powerband without even trying.

the 327 would have to rev to at least 3k rpm to get into its torque curve, which uses more fuel than a lazy 454.

at least that the theory.

[ari666]

something like this would be perfect, but they are a bit of a slug with efi:
Big block 454 Chevy engine (eBay item 280705790009 end time 12-Jul-11 17:33:04 AEST) : Cars, Bikes, Boats

[Blown V6 Hatch]

Don't you import stuff from the US Ari? Why not just import a rebuilder 454 and give it a freshen up yourself?

[ari666]

still waiting on the test for our first mustang its been 8 months now. so no... plus the transport company we found does really reasonable rates for "roll on/roll off" so no containers. and i doubt one of these would fit in the boot of a GT500 shelby