Needing my VT repaired, What are these parts?
G'day forum!
Been reading these forums for a little while on and off and i'm a first time poster. Recently took my 1997 VT Berlina down to the local holden dealership for a service, as they had a pretty good deal going.
Part of the service was they would do a safety check and see what was broken with car, I was aware it is in need of new brakes but a few of the things they listed I have no idea what they are or a price range I should be looking to pay for these parts to be fixed or replaced.
Well what i'm asking is if anyone would be able to explain to me what these things below are and a price range I should be looking for to pay to have these parts fixed.
The list;
- Lower Control Arm Bushes Worn
- Power Steering Pump
- Power Steering Rack
- Tie Rod Ends
- Castor Rod Bushes
- Engine Mounts
- Rocker Cover Gaskets
- Inlet Manifold Gaskets
- Pinion Seal
- Rear Diff Seal
- Front and Rear Pads
- Front and Rear Discs
- Spark Plug Leads
Well that is the quite long list there were a few things in there I understand what they were and could replace or fix them myself, but the car has done quite a few KM's at this moment its sitting on 289,000KM's.
Well thank you in advance for any help.
Just an update I have the car booked in for some repairs on monday.
The pads and discs are going to be replaced with Bendix brakes and a brake flush for $710.
Hope i'm not being ripped off.
Now That's How We Roll!
$710 sounds pretty reasonable. Would have saved money if you could do it yourself, its not a hard job to do mate.
Originally Posted by Reaper
I'm not the best person when it comes to cars and at the moment my right hand is out of action (cut 3 tendons and in a arm brace for the time being) Also the mechanic is going to be going through the car in detail for no extra cost and see what is actually broken or needs replacing as he does not agree with the above list that I recieved from a Holden dealership.
Now That's How We Roll!
ouch, hopefully you will be back and going in no time. Sounds fair enough mate, doesnt hurt to get a second opinion.
Mucca Mad Boys
those parts would total roughly 400 bucks, so you could get another quote, but i don't think it will change much. I'd get a second opinion on all of those items holden listed. They like to over exagerate sometimes.
Pretty much word for word what the mechanic said today this particular dealership only has 1 mechanic and 10 or so apprentices and he said they may miss diagnose an issue which he is mor then happy to double check for me come monday.
Now That's How We Roll!
always good to get a second opinion mate, never know you mechanic might find less wrong with the car. Holden may have been overzealous when doing their check.
So the car went in today and thye said it was going to take couple of hours and it was been like 4 hours so I decided to ring them and ask them how it was going because I was heading down that way for lunch.
I spoke to one of the other mechanics who had been working on my car and he said to me that they had changed the pads and discs but when they were doing the brake fluid flush they discovered that the master cylinder was broken (not sure what this is and the bloke didnt seem too keen to tell me what it was) He told me that they had one coming from the wreckers and hopefully it should get there today.
Would I be able to notice if my master cylinder was broken? As I know the brakes were on their way out but there were still breaking.
Also is a mechanic able to charge me for something I didnt ask them to do or even know that they were going to do?
What You Looking At
with no master cylinder you have no brakes, it wont cost you much, its only a lil plastic container
When I drove there I had brakes though. I just spoke with my brother and said it could of broke while they were checking it and if thats the case it could of been well and truly on its way out.
by the sounds of it your one lucky guy..... well of sorts.
SSM11K
The "Master Cylinder" is the metal thingy with pipes running to it, underneath the "Brake Fluid Resovior" AKA 'a lil plastic container'
The seals on it could have been worn/bypassing, but I would think you be able to feel it somewhat...
You can buy rebuild kits for them, or alternatively buy a new item, how much did they try to charge you for it?
Sorry for the late reply been very busy with physio this afternoon.
All up with the pad, and disc (which he quoted 700 - 730) plus the brake master cylinder (plus labor for this) 925 he said a brand new one would of set me back like 300 odd dollars but I looked on eBay 200 tops (if eBay is anything to go by)
I'm actually quite dissapointed in the fact he did this work without even telling me about it and then the amount quickly spiked up by this amount. As the car needs quite a bit more work done to it I dont believe I will be going back there.
Also as I'm posting this from my iPhone and the recept is in the car I will post a detailed copy of my receipt.
But what do you guys and gals think of this?
OEM+
For what it's worth, out of your list i've done the following on my VY, and i've only got 130,000k on the clock.
- Lower Control Arm Bushes
Common issue. Rubber bushing splits, not much else to say about that lol. Replace it with new rubber bushing, not polyurethane.
- Castor Rod Bushes
Common Issue. Mine failed at 120,000k. Standard ones are a hydraulic design; a rubber bushing filled with oil. When the rubber bushing gets old it splits, releasing the oil and thus reducing the effectiveness of the bushing. Polyurethane replacement bushings work well here (enhances braking feel) and will last for ages.
- Rocker Cover Gaskets
Common Issue. Mine failed at 120,000k, my dads VY's gaskets failed at 150,000k. Causes oil leak from rocker covers. Easy job, just get new gaskets ($20ea from holden), take off rocker covers, swap over gasket, reinstall covers.
- Inlet Manifold Gaskets
Inlet manifold gaskets weren't really at the stage where they needed replacing on my car but i replaced them anyway with metal gaskets as a preemptive measure.
The standard plastic gaskets are a crap design that start leaking from day 1, but the radiator pellets that Holden put in the coolant usually keep it at bay for the first 150,000k or so. They usually need replacing between 150,000k and 250,000k.
When the leak becomes bad enough you will notice oil in your coolant (oil underneath the radiator cap), or coolant in your oil (milkshake/coffee like stuff in the oil). It is critical that you replace them if this happens because coolant doesn't lubricate metal parts too well...
They can also cause an external oil or coolant leak, so if there's an oil leak between the inlet manifold and the rocker cover it can be hard to diagnose whether its the rocker cover gasket or inlet manifold gasket. If this is the case, i'd just do the rocker cover gaskets, degrease the area and keep and eye on it.
In the US there was a class action law suit against GM regarding the faulty plastic gaskets, and they fitted all the V6 engines with aluminium gaskets. Of course, Holden don't acknowledge that there is an issue and continue to fit the flawed plastic gasket over and over again.
I got my genuine GM metal gaskets for $70 shipped from http://www.zzperformance.com/ (select 'grand prix', search for 'Aluminum Intake gasket')
Last edited by TMM; 12-07-2011 at 04:08 AM.
Even though a 289k VT wouldn't be in the best overall shape, I doubt the validity of the Holden dealership's argument. The inlet manifold gasket? If it were in such need of replacement the car wouldn't so well driveable out of the dealership if it were in need of replacement. But no somehow Holden thinks you're still good to get home, think about it and then hand over the cash. Also with that list Holden is essentially saying the whole front end steering system is finished. Even somebody with no mechanical expertise can see through an overzealous dealer. Is the engine sagging to warrant new engine mounts? Were the brake discs measured for runout? By looking at the engine, transmission, power steering system, and diff are there severe visible leaks? Are the spark plug leads frayed? If the answers are no how would the dealer know about their condition without so much as driving the car besides looking at it on a hoist???
1992 VQII Statesman
1991 VP Calais/ 1992 VP Calais
1992 VPII Vacationer Wagon
Banned
I recently did brand new front and rear discs along with pads and it cost $300 in parts. (labour was nothing).
I don't even understand why he had to touch the master cylinder or bleed the brakes? If your master cylinder was leaking, this means air was entering the system and 2 symptoms would be fluid loss and a spongy brake pedal.
As for the other items on the list, they sound like they are rorting you (as all dealerships do). Last year at a dealership I wanted my airbag light reset and the generic scanner that I used couldn't access the ECU to reset it for some reason. It ended up costing $90 and they kept the car overnight! All for a 2minute job! Needless to say, I never went back and would never use a ####ing rip off Holden dealer again.
Here is going to be a full response as I am now on the computer the it doesnt have the auto spell corrections (that are actually incorrect)
So here is what has happened so far with this car.
1. The car was in need of a service, Ballan Holden had a special deal going took it down there they did a saftey check which came back with the list in post #1
2. Phoned around and got quotes on the brake pads and discs to be replaced. most places were around $750 - $800
3. Decided to go with a place in Werribee who quoted me $700 - 730 with a fluid flush, plus he would go over the list and double check things for me.
4. Took the car down to this mechanic yesterday morning, he said to me its going to be a couple of hours as they only had a service to do before mine, rang back about 4ish hours later to check up on it. The other bloke informed me that when they were doing the flush they were only getting about 5ml of fluid when it should be like 25ml or 50ml (I forget the amount). They told me that someone had put the wrong linquid through it (he said maybe oil or trasnmition fluid or something) and it had ruined the rubber in it, and that the whole brake master cyclinder wouldnt work. He had ordered one from the wreckers.
5. The original mechanic finally phoned me back, informed me that what the other bloke at his workshop had told me is true. He informed me that work was done and that it was ready to be picked up the amount now instead of being the maximum of $730ish is now going to be $925 with the new (second hand) brake master cyclinder and the extra labour.
6. I went and picked it up paid the amount (kind of regret doing this should of argued he cant just do work and expect people to pay for it). Thats like someone brining me their computer and then me going "oh the RAM stick is dead the computer will still work without it but not to its full potention I will replace it without telling the customer and charge them for it" it's just not good ethics in my opinon.
But anyway he showed me the brake master cyclinder and it looked like this without the big black round thing on the back of it.
7.So now im driving home and it all seems good the brakes used to make the car shake, which is now gone but the brakes used to seem more...solid they seem soft when I am braking now. Is this because the brakes are new?
I was going to scan a copy of the recept and throw it up for you, but the mrs took the car to work while I was still in bed so I will have it up on here tonight around 6pm.
Thank you everyone for your help I greatly appreciate it.
While some of you nice people are talking about the issus my old beast is having I thought I might ask if any of you may know a fix for these ones or what might be causing them. These are the ones that I have oticed but I dont think are dangerous just annoying.
1. The electric windows are very slow, they used to be quite fast but now they are slow.
2. The heater/aircon doesnt work, im not sure if its the climate control but my friend who is a mechanic and used to have a VT the same as mine said it was the clutch in the system (the aircon/heater system) but I moved to melbourne (Hoppers crossing) before he had a chance to fix it for me as it required a special tool??
3. My headlights in the dark seem VERY dull, I get out and look at them head on and they seem fine but when your driving they dont seem to be very birght and I cant see very well with them I have pretty good vision, as I work with a pretty high end computer company they have our eyes tested every 6 months and I know I am red/green color blind which I dont think would have an issue driving in the dark, but my girl friend she has the same problem when driving it, is it worth buyin bulbs that are brighter? One of the headlight covers have gone yellow and yuck but I dont think that would make much of a difference?
4. Now this one is just confusing as, my horn sounds.....sick lol. It sounds like it has a cold and just yuck I have no idea what the horn looks like in the car and not sure if something might be stuck in there as in Wagga wagga where I used to live there are alot of locust problems and I had t buy a cover for my car so they didnt ruin my radiator and one might of hurt the horn? I'm not sure but its weird and it didnt seem to gradually get that way it just was sick.
There is probably more but I cant think of any at this time.
I wouldn't be surprised if the power steering needs a fix. Apparantly they leak and the fluid seeps onto the engine mounts which corrode them and cause them to fail, resulting in the sump/engine resting on the cross member. This was explained to me when i had my car safety checked too. I had pretty much all the problems you have.
Anyone got an exact model number for an Intake Manifold Gasket for a 11/97 VT, v6 n/a? Anything that is cheaper than a $150 MACE one?
Also the front castor bushes and engine mounts? Best sourced off ebay??
Ok so one of the issues I was having before I took the car into the mechaic to have the work done was when braking the steering would wobble/shake. I drove the car yesterday and it didnt do this for me. I just spoke with my girl friend as she had the car today for work and said to me that it is doing this again. Now it has brand new discs and pads should it still be doing this? or could something else be causing this?
Here is a copy of the recept I got from the mechanic aswell. Pretty angry at this point.
$925 all up
Taking the car for a drive to test out the brakes.
Last edited by guerilla_radio07; 12-07-2011 at 06:59 PM. Reason: Adding info
Took the car for a drive and this seems fine its a little shacky but nothing like it used to be, one more thing I forgot to add was that where my gears are (as this is an auto) the light has gone out I looked into taking off the plastic side that is kinda below the gears but it seems I may need to take off the whole dash just to get to this to change the bulb?
Try getting the front wheels balanced to see if that gets rid of the wobble.
there are three types of people in the world , those who can count and those who can't
better to reign in hell
1. your window seals are probably old try using some silicone spray in the seals then wind them up and down a couple of times
2. your heater AND aircon dont work? which part? the temperature or the fan?
3.you headlights may be faded this can cause your lights to be quite a bit more dull then normal OR the bulbs may have been replaced with the wrong type.
4. my best guess is that you have water or something in the horn.
"The mind is its own place, and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven."
apparently wasting my time with 97 cubic inches
milk doesnt come in 1.6 litres
my geminis
Its the temp, the fan works just fine. When I bought the car it had just been re-gased and doesnt leak.
The light covers seem fine, a little bit yellow but seem fine. May just need new bulbs.
With the horn I will look at this when it stops raining is it easy to find the horn? And can I just remove the horn to tip out any water or to check inside of it and put it back or is it once there is water or anything else in there its wrecked and I need a new one?
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