retro fitting ABS

[ari666]

question for the brake savvy members.

just a quick thought, and im sure a few other have thought it b4, but here goes:

had this crazy idea that if i took the ABS pump, speed sensors, triggers, rotors, calipers ETC off a late model commodore. would it be possible to fit it to the impala?

sabbathss's VQ gave me the idea. the ABS triggers are in the actual rotors, so i would just need to make a chunky plate (which i need to do anyway to go disc) to house the pickup. is there an ABS module seperate to the ECU? or is it all just one inbuilt system?

i know the rear triggers are on the diff, but i am wondering if there is a way to hook them also up to the back of the rear rotors, or perhaps the axle itself and use a very sensitive pickup.

i dunno. throw ideas at me. anyone that doesnt know me, i have a basic understanding of how to make things work, so no comments like "mate, thats going to be too hard" etc. no use to me.

just discussion.

thanks

[Dr HaxZaw]

what about if you swapped the hubs over with a new model commodore?? dunno how it would work with mounting points and so forth though
just thinking about how your gonna mount the calipers thats all

[ari666]

well itll come down to stub axles. with the current drum brakes its hub over axle on the front. commodores calipers bolt onto the strut yes? so what i would need to do is make a plate with the same holes that the caliper used to bolt onto the strut and attach it to my spindle.

the back i am TOTALLY unsure of. solid axles against IRS. is there an ABS commo with live axle?

[Cheap6]

well itll come down to stub axles. with the current drum brakes its hub over axle on the front. commodores calipers bolt onto the strut yes? so what i would need to do is make a plate with the same holes that the caliper used to bolt onto the strut and attach it to my spindle.

the back i am TOTALLY unsure of. solid axles against IRS. is there an ABS commo with live axle?

Any VP-VS wagon with ABS eg. VR and VS Acclaim has the live axle and it was an option on the live axle sedans. Live axle ex police cars seem to have it most often. (I think because ABS was a requirement for some police fleets.)

The wheel speed sensors are mounted in the axle housings and there is a toothed wheel which is pressed onto the axle. The axles are unique to ABS equipped cars.

The hardware is the easy bit. What may bite you is the software which is more car specific, particularly relating to the response of the caliper and disc combo to the ABS function.

There is an article in a very recent HOT ROD magazine on converting a '70s Camaro using a Corvette based system and there are some tips in that. Maybe you have read that already, prompting this thread?

There was also a one off paper mag. from a few years ago with a conversion using, I think, Jap. import RX7 parts. I can't remember on what car. If you are interested I might be able to find that.

There are two types of ABS used in the VP-VS Commodores: a generic Bosch 2S in VP-VR and a Delco system (I think - might want to check that) in VS.

Variations on the Bosch 2* are to be found in a number of other cars eg. '90's Volvo 740, Calibra and Mercedes 300 so that may open up some options wrt parts but I wouldn't get too carried away with mix and match eg. keep the brake components with the ABS ECU and the wheel speed signals would have to match the ECU wrt frequency and type.

The ABS ECU's are a separate unit and physically similar across alll 2* but the software varies and is specific to the car. Maybe counter intuitively, the parts for the oddball Euro stuff can be cheaper than the more popular Commodore parts.

There are likely to be some differences within the Commodore ECU's also eg. VR (with Series II?) went to a system that could be accessed via the ALDL.

If you end up adapting wheel speed sesnors, the air gap is important but if you made the brackets so the sesnor sits a little close, they can be shimmed back.

[ari666]

Maybe you have read that already, prompting this thread?.

no i havnt read either of those two, if you could link it'd be most appreciated

so you reckon oddball euro parts would turn out cheaper, but then i might be chasing my tail quite a lot trying to find 'mix and match' bits. whereas, if i was just able to adapt a 'decent' disc-brake-with-ABS system to my impala with similar specs, it would seem much eaiser.

currently it is 4 wheel drum brake and i am looking at a C10 truck upgrade to single pot caliper. which almost seems retarded when later model commodores come with twin pots AND abs as standard and TBH the braking/axle assemblies are not that dis-imilar.

its not like im pressed for space. thanks again for the post mate. rep awarded.

[Cheap6]

The HOTROD article can be found here:

ABS For Hot Rods - Installing A Late-Model Electronic Stability Control System - Hot Rod Magazine

I'd have to dig through my personal library to find the other article.

I was suggesting that some of the Euro parts may be cheaper - used of course - because I priced a few bits when I was bench testing an idea with ABS and the Euro parts were cheaper.

I forgot about the utes. Apart from VG, the VT- one tonners used a live axle. That might be closer dimension wise to what you want too. Also, VT are 4 channel (VP, VR and VS are 3) so a better ABS.

There are hubs around - at a price - that allow the use of VT- discs on VB-VP stub axles so that would get the discs on the car.

Stop Tech have some pretty good tech. info re. ABS and brake upgrades.

[Calaber]

the back i am TOTALLY unsure of. solid axles against IRS. is there an ABS commo with live axle?

Yep. VR's and VS's had live rear axles and ABS on some models. The sensor was fitted outside the housing but there was a hole through the housing and the sensor worked off axle rotation. My son had a VR Acclaim wagon with ABS.

Bugger - just noticed Cheap6's post - I'm way too late.

[pjdm1980]

I've got a VS Berlina with solid rear and ABS, maybe try calling someone like Hoppers Stoppers they might be able to give you a few ideas or a local engineer?