Your choice or a future law. (W.A)

[Wogboy1994]

Well with the recent tragedy of a P plater (he had them for 8 days) who lost control of his subaru and killed a childs mother a few nights a go, i would like to know your point of view on the once tried and failed law of P platers not allowed powerful cars. Now dont get me wrong im a P plater with a v8 and i know its quite powerful but i have a brother on his L's and he also has found a v8 and i just dont think he should have it just yet.

With this tragedy i genuinely think the government will try and input a law against P platers having these powerful cars. Now i know this forum is all about powerful cars but just try and give an honest opinion

Wogboy

[minux]

How did the laws fail? Were they not enforced strongly enough or?

In Vic, they seem to be winning the battle albeit slowly with youngens wiping themselves out. Unfortunately until there is an idiot test there will always be people thinking they are god and that nothing can defeat them.

[monkeys437]

Did he lose control IN a powerful car or BECAUSE of a powerful car because they are 2 different things. I essentially agree with a power restriction particularly for first year p-platers but I can't understand here in vic you cant drive a 150kW old V8 but you can drive a 210kW SV6 so its a complicated issue. I don't know the specifics of the tragedy your talking about but if the driver was driving like a d/head he's gonna kill someone with or without a turbo or 2 extra cylinders. If he was driving responsibly and simply made a judgement error it's the same deal, power might not come into it.

[vyseriesII]

As much as i might be flamed down hard, It's my opinion that more younger people of today don't seem to have the responsibility like more did years ago. In saying that im not saying there arent some good responsible drivers amongst them. Also, when i was younger the average v6/6/v8 wasnt anywhere near as powerful. Think about it, you give a car with a decent amount of power to teenager? Your bound to have trouble sometime. I'm thinking an unmodded (at all) 4cyl would be better suited to a first driver. While i'm sure they would find ways to be irresponsible in a 4cyl, it would be a lot less power to temp the weak.

[jakstas]

Give em all non turbo diesel 4x4's for the first 2 years.

Case closed.

[DLFHUB666]

You can still do 160km/h in a 1hz toyota landcuriser diesel (yes i have done it), so instend of having a 1.5 tonne weapon you have now just given them a 2 tonne weapon. what would you rather have smash up your ass end a 1.5 tonne commodore or a 2.5 tonne landcuriser with a big #### off roo bar.

[vyseriesII]

You can still do 160km/h in a 1hz toyota landcuriser diesel (yes i have done it), so instend of having a 1.5 tonne weapon you have now just given them a 2 tonne weapon. what would you rather have smash up your ass end a 1.5 tonne commodore or a 2.5 tonne landcuriser with a big #### off roo bar.

Well ive always thought that p platers( and some chicks out there lol) shouldn't be allowed to drive big 4x4 either. It really goes into the realm of common sence with p platers but. Gees, people who have driven for years are friggin hopless at driving big 4x4's. And tend to get superirority complexes too eg. "Im big and bad, get out of my way" I was thinking just a normal small car (4cyl) for them to get used to driving on the road and gain experience.

[Dr HaxZaw]

To me the only thing that decides whether a p-plater should be allowed to drive a car is power to weight ratio and possibly a max torque figure... anything more than that and to me the laws will become to supressive

[Big_Simmo]

Where this accident happened is a pretty screwed up corner. its actually a black spot as there have been heaps of crashes there.
Honestly ive been through there more than once and I have screwed up there on the odd occassion in my younger years when I was on my all mighty p plates. I dont think the capabilities of the car had much to do with this crash to be fair but we will see what happens after WAPOL do their thing and investigate through the major crash investigation unit (whom I actually have nothing but respect for)

As to the laws WA needs to bring into practice what vic etc are doing and limiting what cars P platers are legally allowed to drive, that and the blatently obvious of more driver education. Make people remember it is a priviledge nor a right to have a drivers license.

btw here is linky to story
P-plater quizzed after mum, 25, killed walking baby in pram | Perth Now

[JSTCOZ]

Accident could have been caused by anyone. There is always going to be both responsible and irresponsible driver, regardless of a piece of card or not.

[walesy]

ive always dissagreed with the v8 and turbo laws, i had v8's when i was on my p's and as was already said, and i agree with, even in a 4cyl piece of crap you can still get to dangerous speeds, and more often than not its more a factor of the cars safety features and lack of driver training that is the problem

BAN LOW PERFORMANCE DRIVERS!, NOT HIGH PERFORMANCE CARS!

[nathanVY]

If any restrictions - for the FIRST YEAR I can understand. 4 years is just pointless.

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

I agree with simmo, the corner itself is a bad corner. Probably driver error is what caused the crash not the car. Whether it was a high powered car or not, the driver still makes the decision to drive they way they do, so it is 100% driver error (unless it is shown that something failed on the car).

Every driver makes the conscious decision to act the way they do behind the wheel. I suppose it is a bit like keeping dangerous items away from a baby, remove the threat and bad things are less likely to happen. But children can be educated as to their behaviour, even more so with young adults and driving. You will never eliminate the problem, but I will agree that driver education is more important than vehicle restrictions.

[Hangman]

The problem with the P plate restrictions is they blame the cars power, not the driver. Any driver can crash any car if they're being a dick.

As long as the requirements to get a licence consist of a computer test, a 3 point turn, a parallel park and a hill start, shits gonna happen.

[304runner]

I look back on the days when I first got my licence and thank my lucky stars that I never had enough money to afford a decent car, in the respects of a V8 or turbo.

One thing is for sure, I would have killed myself, if not my friends who were skylarking with me.

The laws actually came into place just a few months before I was eligible to get my blacks, and I was 100% behind the change...

Someone above mentioned that they can drive an new V6 but not and old V8 and the V6 has more ponys, true but the point is, not many kids can afford the brand new v6 and the power delivery is slightly different with the v8's and often in deaths favor.

The v6's also have a shit load more safety features so I can kind of understand why....

There are also allot of N/A 6's P platers can NOT drive like the BMW M and M3 Honda NSX Nissan 350Z and 370Z (including private or 'grey' import variants eg. Infiniti G35, Infiniti G37, Skyline 350GT (V35), Skyline 370GT (V36).
All Porsches from 1994 onwards (except diesel) and the Mercedes Benz SLK350.

[nathanVY]

^ dang it, I was considering all of those for my next car

[Drawnnite]

ok so by wiping out v8s you wipe out a hell of alot of mercedes and high end cars.
sure they may be out of many peoples price range but look at the safety features on such cars.

v6 law seems ok. i mean im not happy with it but i get along with it.
i also got a ute and guess what it holds 2 people. so no peer pressure for me =P
however there are that many discrepances it is funny.

go out buy new SV6 or similar and it has 210kw.
but you cannot go and buy an old say WB v8 ute with next to nothing power in comparison.
as above has said power delivery. but still it doesnt make sense.
get exemption to drive a v8 for "work purposes" even though it most likely never gets used for such. (i wont go into further detail but its easy to do)

from memory in Queensland you can pretty much drive anything. except forced induction. unless its a diesel.
i dont see why it cannot be like that everywhere.

nothing will stop idiots on the road. you can do everything to try to stop them but its possible to still crash.
however if they open up racetracks without charging you a fortune to go there.
and make it that you need to do a full defensive driving course in a whole range of cars.
then we might see a change in the younger drivers.

so to finish up.
i would rather drive a v8/turbo/sc/high performance 6 with good safety features such as a BMW M3 (or whatever they ban atm) that is safer then some old corolla (they are a good car but still)
and actually be trained how to drive and so forth then just be banned from things.
the current laws are pathetic and do nothing but cause people to be stupid and try to break them.
so no they should not put them into place. except for say 0 BAC and peer passengers etc, which are proven to work.

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

I would go the other way, I would rather a P plater learn how to drive a car WITHOUT all the traction control, stability control and every other control that takes the reaction and response away from the driver. That way, when they do get into a car without all that and get into a tricky situation, they are less likely to end up a statistic because they actually know how to drive.

Bring driver education into upper level high school and attitudes will most likely change.

[Drawnnite]

I would go the other way, I would rather a P plater learn how to drive a car WITHOUT all the traction control, stability control and every other control that takes the reaction and response away from the driver. That way, when they do get into a car without all that and get into a tricky situation, they are less likely to end up a statistic because they actually know how to drive.

Bring driver education into upper level high school and attitudes will most likely change.

i would rather have road/driver education start young, which they do (road crossing etc) and also learning road rules on bikes. which is a good start.

however unless they make it mandatory to complete defensive driving courses in a whole variety of cars it is pointless.
maybe they should have it so that on such courses they show you how bad it is to be on the phone when driving.

i just wish people took driving seriously and didnt put the music up to deafening levels, ate breakfast, did their makeup and so forth
it makes me so angry seeing these kinds of idiots as they are just adding more variables to an accident.

[TrikkBen]

This topic is so over done...

Education is the key, not more knee jerk laws made by fat cokheads behind a desk wondering what to get from Subway for lunch cause they're on a diet cause they're fat.

[Hangman]

I would go the other way, I would rather a P plater learn how to drive a car WITHOUT all the traction control, stability control and every other control that takes the reaction and response away from the driver. That way, when they do get into a car without all that and get into a tricky situation, they are less likely to end up a statistic because they actually know how to drive.

Bring driver education into upper level high school and attitudes will most likely change.

Completely agree. Education is the way to go.

I did my L's/P's in a datto 120y, an LJ Torana and a v8 hatchback Torana. I would definitely say I learnt more in those cars than if I'd learnt in something newer. When I got my first late model car, a V6 VP, I was amazed at how much less work it was to drive.

[304runner]

They actually scrapped the advanced driver training program for P Plates because they became more of a risk due to the miss conception that they were actually an "Advanced Driver" and were totaling their cars and the people in them so education isnt, and never will be the key...

Taking a sharp knife from a kids hand is the safest thing to do, not sitting there and saying "No" then walking away not expecting him to accidentally cut himself at some point.

remove the danger, remove the risk...simple

[Drawnnite]

They actually scrapped the advanced driver training program for P Plates because they became more of a risk due to the miss conception that they were actually an "Advanced Driver" and were totaling their cars and the people in them so education isnt, and never will be the key...

Taking a sharp knife from a kids hand is the safest thing to do, not sitting there and saying "No" then walking away not expecting him to accidentally cut himself at some point.

remove the danger, remove the risk...simple

i do see where you are coming from and i do agree to an extent. however...

or show them what happens with the knife if it is used inappropriately?
its like saying you should never work live on electricity. however look at Linesmen. they all work live and safely do so. as they know the risks and dangers. and have been taught how to do it safely.
if they were not so stupid with the laws in the first place there wouldnt be an issue.

i know being a current P Plater that it might sound one sided.
but some laws are sensible (0 BAC. Peer Passengers. etc)
but some others are ludicris.

under the current Vic P plate laws im not allowed to drive a v8 turbo diesel Landy Ute (unless i use one from work at work)
but can drive a turbo diesel v6 VW Golf TDI if i want and its legal to do so
that is rediculously powerful in comparison to say a L67 commodore
please explain how these laws make sense?

sure a while back before turbo diesels they may have made sense
but with todays advanced turbo diesels are more powerful yet are allowed when a less powerful petrol version is not allowed.

id rather go back to Power to weight.
atleast then it gave more of an equal playing ground.

[DevilDRake]

These threads are never ending, it's simply the driver not the car - but because the stupid drivers COULD access the high powered cars, they had to down them for the rest of us.

I don't understand the people saying have to drive something slow like a 4 cylinder for your p's, you'll just jump in a v8 and be so unexpected of the power since you're been driving an excel.

The first 30 hours of L's out of the 120, is where you learn the most, the rest of it is just 'driving'.

The first 6 months of your P's are when it all comes into play, not four years.


I'm not going to sit here and go "Bullshit i want v8's it's stupid ####s that kill themselves and their mates blabla" even though it's pretty much what we all think, but the difference between 2 years and 4 years won't make much difference.

I'm done - I'm going to get argued against anyway.

[Dr HaxZaw]

At some point in time a safety feature wont be able to stop and accident but a drivers ability can... but everyone has become so relient on them that they have no actual driving ability

get the majority of people in sydney on a wet skid pan and see how good their car control is then with no assists... would be an eye opener i reckon