WARNING! It is dangerous to start a car with a screwdriver

[Frd_thmsn]

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***IMPORTANT READ THIS ENTIRE MESSAGE BEFORE JUMPING STRAIGHT TO REPLYING***
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Mostly for the attention of Rattattack.Not very nice locking the previous thread so no reply can be made! Especially seeing as you made no valid arguments supporting the dangerous practice of bypassing safety starting circuits.

I think you are worth convincing of the dangers of jump starting vehicles with a screwdriver , this will be my final attempt to help you. If at the end you still don,t understand , then just close this thread and I give up!.
If no one else is bothered putting their opinions and you lock this thread , then I don,t think Just Commodore is a place that encourages free discussion, and I won,t be bothered.I,ve put the details in point form in the hope you will address the points that I,ve been saying all along and won,t be tempted to ignore them.


These are the facts.

1: VN88 wasn,t "stuck for a quick fix" as you said, he had 2 days, plenty of time to get a piece of wire or get it fixed properly.
YOUR RESPONSE:


2: If it took Jim 6 months to fix his car, and he used the screwdriver for that length of time , what does that say about his concern for the safe operation of his car? Also his car was unroadworthy during this time.And he was risking damage or injury every time he started it.What does it say about the mechanical skill of someone who couldn,t or couldn,t be bothered fixing the problem for 6 months?
YOUR RESPONSE:


3: Any vehicle that has it,s neutral safety switch bypassed or is started by bypass is UNROADWORTHY, check with roads and transport.
YOUR RESPONSE:



4: If you start any vehicle or machinery in the workplace by bypassing the starting safety circuits it is a breach of Workplace Health and Safety.This apples to anyone operating machinery or vehicles, a mechanic who does this is also included.
YOUR RESPONSE:


5:A large number of people have been killed or seriously injured injured by doing this practice, several have died by doing this on tractors, vehicles and heavy machinery.One chap did this on a large compactor last year and it ran over him and killed him.
A car can be just as dangerous on the loose.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AE172 http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d001501...7/d001587.html

http://www.health.state.ok.us/progra.../Compactor.htm
YOUR RESPONSE:


6:Any shorts or surges to a vehicles electrical system could damage the vehicles computer.
YOUR RESPONSE:


7:The text books you mentioned that supported starting a car with a screwdriver,I,ll bet they are pre-computer vehicles, and also have no mention of V6 commodores , VN etc I would tip they are old books that would probably predate most of us.If I am wrong please by all means submit a copy.
YOUR RESPONSE:


8: Your rude replies to me weren't warranted .I had been courteous in my correspondence , until you 2 guys started treating me like a fool for saying that it is dangerous, that,s when I became a smart @rse.
YOUR RESPONSE:


9: It is damn near impossible to get a screwdriver to the solenoid without shorting it to the exhaust manifold on a VN V6 from the top of the car.
YOUR RESPONSE.

10: I would only start a car with a screwdriver to bypass the NSS if I had absolutely no alternative and was well aware to make sure the car was in neutral or park gear and could be sure that it wouldn,t bump into gear by accident.You didn,t spell out these precautions to anyone reading that thread.
YOUR RESPONSE

Please give some consideration to the points above.
How can we have a sensible debate and argument , when you totally ignore and disregard my points and just respond with schoolyard
replies ? This is supposed to be a forum where people can express their views.
I have gone to a lot of trouble typing this up, so don,t appreciate when it,s obvious you haven,t read what I type.
__________________________________________________ ____________________
***IMPORTANT HAVE YOU READ AND UNDERSTOOD THE ABOVE, IF NOT PLEASE REREAD AND RESPOND TO ALL THE

POINTS***
__________________________________________________ _____________________
What I find surprising and disappointing is that all of the people who read the other thread agreed with you guys that it was a perfectly acceptable and safe practice as not one other person agreed with me.

I have seen so many examples of dangerous practices over the years , and surprise Rat I,m not perfect , I have done many dangerous things too, but if you have seen the amount of injuries due to unsafe practices that I have you would not be so complacent about recommending them especially where non mechanical people reading that it is supported by a moderator believe it is perfectly fine to do so.
A bloke I worked with years ago in a workshop , blipped the throttle from under the bonnet , the car rammed into a wall 5 feet away, he was lucky that he was on the side , and that no one was in front, he forgot it was in Drive , and the handbrake didn,t hold.
Years ago blokes working in factories decided that you could get better access on the press brake by removing the guard, my best mate lost 2 of his fingers. Although this isn't directly related to the VN starting it highlights the importance of disabling or bypassing safety equipment, that's why it's called a Neutral Safety Switch.

So please anyone reading this whether you agree or disagree please reply, I can handle it if I,m wrong and I,m sure Rat can too.

Steve

[rattattack1313]

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1: VN88 wasn,t "stuck for a quick fix" as you said, he had 2 days, plenty of time to get a piece of wire or get it fixed properly.
YOUR RESPONSE: He lives out of the town...a long walk from the nearest auto shop.....


2: If it took Jim 6 months to fix his car, and he used the screwdriver for that length of time , what does that say about his concern for the safe operation of his car? Also his car was unroadworthy during this time.And he was risking damage or injury every time he started it.What does it say about the mechanical skill of someone who couldn,t or couldn,t be bothered fixing the problem for 6 months?
YOUR RESPONSE:um...Jims car i up on blocks ,stripped down to almost nothing...he lost his license for a few months, so is taking the time out to rebuild his car.....


3: Any vehicle that has it,s neutral safety switch bypassed or is started by bypass is UNROADWORTHY, check with roads and transport.
YOUR RESPONSE: Who said anything about removing the switch?? I only ever remove it to clean it, then I put it back...I do know why it is there.....



4: If you start any vehicle or machinery in the workplace by bypassing the starting safety circuits it is a breach of Workplace Health and Safety.This apples to anyone operating machinery or vehicles, a mechanic who does this is also included.
YOUR RESPONSE:So????????.........


5:A large number of people have been killed or seriously injured injured by doing this practice, several have died by doing this on tractors, vehicles and heavy machinery.One chap did this on a large compactor last year and it ran over him and killed him.
A car can be just as dangerous on the loose.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AE172 http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d001501...7/d001587.html

http://www.health.state.ok.us/progra.../Compactor.htm
YOUR RESPONSE: So they were silly and didn't check..... not my responsibility.....


6:Any shorts or surges to a vehicles electrical system could damage the vehicles computer.
YOUR RESPONSE:Highly possible, but whack a multi meter in there, and then start your car, and watch the needle jumping......


7:The text books you mentioned that supported starting a car with a screwdriver,I,ll bet they are pre-computer vehicles, and also have no mention of V6 commodores , VN etc I would tip they are old books that would probably predate most of us.If I am wrong please by all means submit a copy.
YOUR RESPONSE:Correct.


8: Your rude replies to me weren't warranted .I had been courteous in my correspondence , until you 2 guys started treating me like a fool for saying that it is dangerous, that,s when I became a smart @rse.
YOUR RESPONSE:It pisses me off having a a forum full of people that say they are right all the time...


9: It is damn near impossible to get a screwdriver to the solenoid without shorting it to the exhaust manifold on a VN V6 from the top of the car.
YOUR RESPONSE.crap...plenty of room in me VP.......& me sons VN....

10: I would only start a car with a screwdriver to bypass the NSS if I had absolutely no alternative and was well aware to make sure the car was in neutral or park gear and could be sure that it wouldn,t bump into gear by accident.You didn,t spell out these precautions to anyone reading that thread.
YOUR RESPONSE:THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THAT THREAD ... HE HAD NO OPTION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


A bloke I worked with years ago in a workshop , blipped the throttle from under the bonnet , the car rammed into a wall 5 feet away, he was lucky that he was on the side , and that no one was in front, he forgot it was in Drive , and the handbrake didn,t hold.
Years ago blokes working in factories decided that you could get better access on the press brake by removing the guard, my best mate lost 2 of his fingers. Although this isn't directly related to the VN starting it highlights the importance of disabling or bypassing safety equipment, that's why it's called a Neutral Safety Switch.
RESPONSE: Again, they should have checked 1st, shouldn't they....
Steve

anything else, fellla??????

[rattattack1313]

Just on a similar, but slightly different theme, a few years ago, a few of us were out riding our bikes....nice long winding road that we all knew welll....Nige got in front, and dissappeared around a corner.....we got to the next town...no Nige....a quick backtrack...I found his tyremarks...... dumped my bike....ran into the bushes...sure enough ,here he was, lying there....the others arrived...called an Ambo...they said, don't move him, so we didn't....... he died in front of us...... when the Ambos got there, they turned him over..... large stick in back of ribs into lung......leaked EVERYTHING out.....only broken bone was where the stick went through...if we had have moved him, we would have been able to staunch the claret-flow, but we did as told........... and we lost a good mate that day....I also then had to face his wife and children...........so , yea...follow the instructions mate.......

[VSrules]

I couldn,t be bothered.

You obviously have taken a dislike to me and anything I say is going to be ridiculed by you.

Hopefully others will read this post and decide for themselves .

My intention has never been to belittle you , just warn you of the dangers of recommending on this forum to especially newbies potentially unsafe practices.

And I don't consider statements like "who gives a frig" in reply to Workplace Health and safety issues to be other than schoolyard replies.

People die or are seriously injured because of unsafe practices.

[rattattack1313]

I couldn,t be bothered.

You obviously have taken a dislike to me and anything I say is going to be ridiculed by you.

Hopefully others will read this post and decide for themselves .

My intention has never been to belittle you , just warn you of the dangers of recommending on this forum to especially newbies potentially unsafe practices.

And I don't consider statements like "who gives a frig" in reply to Workplace Health and safety issues to be other than schoolyard replies.

People die or are seriously injured because of unsafe practices.

are you his guardian saint or something????????(BTW..I changed that bit..& it was FIG, not FRIG).......

[rattattack1313]

No !!!!!!!! You aren't his guardian angel at all...same person, different name...(can't hide your IP from me mate)!!!!....

[Dead Head]

What about useing COMMONSENCE. I immagine we have all done some very dangerous things in our time. But if we use commonsence and take care we get away with it. Not to forget that if one participates in a dangerous act the conciqences are all yours. If you think it it dangerous and you could be hurt dont do it. Get your mate to do it. JOKE
Settle down boys

[Doctor Bob]

why not just take it as advice given to get you out of a tight spot.
its really not worth all this bullshit is it?

Rob

[rattattack1313]

Hehehee....tell fred & his guardian angel........loooool.......

[dean18]

__________________________________________________ _____________________________
***IMPORTANT READ THIS ENTIRE MESSAGE BEFORE JUMPING STRAIGHT TO REPLYING***
__________________________________________________ _____________________________

Mostly for the attention of Rattattack.Not very nice locking the previous thread so no reply can be made! Especially seeing as you made no valid arguments supporting the dangerous practice of bypassing safety starting circuits.

I think you are worth convincing of the dangers of jump starting vehicles with a screwdriver , this will be my final attempt to help you. If at the end you still don,t understand , then just close this thread and I give up!.
If no one else is bothered putting their opinions and you lock this thread , then I don,t think Just Commodore is a place that encourages free discussion, and I won,t be bothered.I,ve put the details in point form in the hope you will address the points that I,ve been saying all along and won,t be tempted to ignore them.


These are the facts.

1: VN88 wasn,t "stuck for a quick fix" as you said, he had 2 days, plenty of time to get a piece of wire or get it fixed properly.
YOUR RESPONSE:


2: If it took Jim 6 months to fix his car, and he used the screwdriver for that length of time , what does that say about his concern for the safe operation of his car? Also his car was unroadworthy during this time.And he was risking damage or injury every time he started it.What does it say about the mechanical skill of someone who couldn,t or couldn,t be bothered fixing the problem for 6 months?
YOUR RESPONSE:


3: Any vehicle that has it,s neutral safety switch bypassed or is started by bypass is UNROADWORTHY, check with roads and transport.
YOUR RESPONSE:



4: If you start any vehicle or machinery in the workplace by bypassing the starting safety circuits it is a breach of Workplace Health and Safety.This apples to anyone operating machinery or vehicles, a mechanic who does this is also included.
YOUR RESPONSE:


5:A large number of people have been killed or seriously injured injured by doing this practice, several have died by doing this on tractors, vehicles and heavy machinery.One chap did this on a large compactor last year and it ran over him and killed him.
A car can be just as dangerous on the loose.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AE172 http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d001501...7/d001587.html

http://www.health.state.ok.us/progra.../Compactor.htm
YOUR RESPONSE:


6:Any shorts or surges to a vehicles electrical system could damage the vehicles computer.
YOUR RESPONSE:


7:The text books you mentioned that supported starting a car with a screwdriver,I,ll bet they are pre-computer vehicles, and also have no mention of V6 commodores , VN etc I would tip they are old books that would probably predate most of us.If I am wrong please by all means submit a copy.
YOUR RESPONSE:


8: Your rude replies to me weren't warranted .I had been courteous in my correspondence , until you 2 guys started treating me like a fool for saying that it is dangerous, that,s when I became a smart @rse.
YOUR RESPONSE:


9: It is damn near impossible to get a screwdriver to the solenoid without shorting it to the exhaust manifold on a VN V6 from the top of the car.
YOUR RESPONSE.

10: I would only start a car with a screwdriver to bypass the NSS if I had absolutely no alternative and was well aware to make sure the car was in neutral or park gear and could be sure that it wouldn,t bump into gear by accident.You didn,t spell out these precautions to anyone reading that thread.
YOUR RESPONSE

Please give some consideration to the points above.
How can we have a sensible debate and argument , when you totally ignore and disregard my points and just respond with schoolyard
replies ? This is supposed to be a forum where people can express their views.
I have gone to a lot of trouble typing this up, so don,t appreciate when it,s obvious you haven,t read what I type.
__________________________________________________ ____________________
***IMPORTANT HAVE YOU READ AND UNDERSTOOD THE ABOVE, IF NOT PLEASE REREAD AND RESPOND TO ALL THE

POINTS***
__________________________________________________ _____________________
What I find surprising and disappointing is that all of the people who read the other thread agreed with you guys that it was a perfectly acceptable and safe practice as not one other person agreed with me.

I have seen so many examples of dangerous practices over the years , and surprise Rat I,m not perfect , I have done many dangerous things too, but if you have seen the amount of injuries due to unsafe practices that I have you would not be so complacent about recommending them especially where non mechanical people reading that it is supported by a moderator believe it is perfectly fine to do so.
A bloke I worked with years ago in a workshop , blipped the throttle from under the bonnet , the car rammed into a wall 5 feet away, he was lucky that he was on the side , and that no one was in front, he forgot it was in Drive , and the handbrake didn,t hold.
Years ago blokes working in factories decided that you could get better access on the press brake by removing the guard, my best mate lost 2 of his fingers. Although this isn't directly related to the VN starting it highlights the importance of disabling or bypassing safety equipment, that's why it's called a Neutral Safety Switch.

So please anyone reading this whether you agree or disagree please reply, I can handle it if I,m wrong and I,m sure Rat can too.

Steve

Steve you have done excellent job here putting all this together and it shows you are safe person to work with and communicate...cheers mate

[GiantCan]

I don't see too much Danger in it, just run an earthing cable onto a piece of copper somewhere on the floor.

[Garth]

i am going to close this thead, no reason besides i can see it turning into one huge shitfight. ill be taking this discussion up in person with the member/members involved in this

cheers
garth