Ask The Copper

[holden#1]

I thought this would be a good place to ask the question as we have a good number of copper members now... (I hope it stays this way)

heard a few different things about the legalities of hitchiking..

just wondering, is it legal?
if its not, will you pick em up, take them to station and charge them or what?

[helly]

Holden#1,

Depends on how you are going about it....

No its not illegal as such, but if you were jumping out in front of people and trying to pull them over, I guess you could be considered to be acting in a dangerous or offensive manner. You could be charged with a few different offences if someone wanted to get creative.

But if you were just like standing on the side of the road giving the odd car a wave then there is no drama. Who's to say you aren't just waiting for a mate anyway...

It would also depend on where you were doing it. Can't do it on the Anzac Bridge that's for sure...

[helly]

I thought 3 posts in a row wasn't enough...

So now there are 4...

Hope everyone had a great New Years...
I didn't have to arrest any locals. I'm so proud of my town!!!

This is just paste from the police.nsw.gov.au site under news...


Man charged after ecstasy seized by RBT unit - Hay

31 December 2005

Police have charged a man after officers conducting random breath testing duties allegedly discovered a quantity of drugs in his vehicle at Hay in the state’s southwest.

Officers stopped the 21-year-old man’s vehicle on the Sturt Highway just before midnight on Thursday (29 December).

After checking his driver’s licence, police suspicions were aroused and a search of the vehicle was carried out.

Police will allege they found in excess of 1.3kg of ecstasy in the vehicle. Officer also seized a bag, which allegedly contained about 60g of crystal methylamphetamine, from the front passenger seat.

The Castle Hill man was charged with supply large commercial quantity of prohibited drug, supply indictable quantity of prohibited drug, two counts of possess prohibited drug and fraudulent use of a driver’s licence.

Police have also charged two South Australian men who were arrested shortly after 2am yesterday (Friday 30 December).

As a result of information received, officers stopped a vehicle near a Hay service station. The pair was arrested and a subsequent search of their vehicle revealed cash in excess of $80,000.

Police believe the two incidents are related and inquiries are continuing.

The men have been refused bail to reappear in court at a later date.

*************************************************
This supports the last comments about Static RBT, see how the Executive have tried to make it look like it was a result of the RBT Unit??? No such thing. It was the local Bush GD's just driving around and Bob's your Uncle...
*************************************************

[rattattack1313]

Well, I am really glad they got arrested, besides who actually got them..... terrible drugs, eccies & speed......

[vlv8vic]

helly your last post got me thinking,

what do you guys use (i mean as far as intuition?) to 'pick' suspect people?
it seems that instincts are more than likely right - you pull up a car, get a feeling and check it out more so than you would another car. Ive been pulled over a number of times, im sure i looked dodgy when i had the old datsun, but was never really interrogated- for lack of a better term.
Is it how the occupant acts? ... something must get the thinker ticking.

I have worked in a servo to get through uni and often note a rego while a car is filling up based on a 'feeling', and much of the time i am right and they either pull a drive-off or when they come to pay they are the ones with no working cards, no cash and often no ID. all based on a feeling. (and its not always a dodgy looking car, or person or anything like that...)

I guess, in simpler terms, what sends your alarm bells ringing and gives you the urge to search the car or person rather than send them on their merry way?


a classic one i had was two blokes in a nice little elantra one evening, pulled in on the wrong side of the pump, couldnt find the petrol cap button, and just didnt look right. i took the rego and rang the police while they were filling. i know its alot to base on not much but i thought maybe the car was stolen.
It wasnt stolen, but the police said it was reported late from a hire company who couldnt contact the driver.
Anyway, they couldnt pay for the fuel, no cards had money, cards were in 3 different names etc etc. filled out all the appropriate forms and checked the phone number they gave which they answered in front of me.
Didnt get a payment by the due date so called the cops again, all the details were wrong, they talked to telstra and the phone was in a different name again (possibly stolen, i never found out) and the adresses didnt work out.
Not sure what happened about it in the end with the hire car but i never got the fuel payment.
One of the idiots was dumb enough to come back in about 6 months later and fill up. Trusty speed dial had the cops there within minutes, and guess what? the guys eftpos card couldnt pay for the fuel he just got, let alone the amount he already owed.
I dont think we ever recovered the money, but no doubt the guy copped some sort of ribbing for his various screwups.

[helly]

vlv8vic,

I can't obviously discuss the details of that specific incident as it is currently not finalised before the court...

However, I guess that its really just using most of your senses and taking note of anything, small or large that is out of the ordinary or jujst doesn't sit right...

Like sometimes I might pull a guy over and you just casually ask him where he's headed off to... Most people out here will have a chat as they haven't had anyone to talk to for hours... Generally they will make it fairly obvious for you by absolutely crapping themselves and just looking very nervous and having beads of sweat running down their foreheads... Other times the gear is just siting in the back seat and you can see it plain as day... Or their mobile phone is ringing off the hook and you tell them its fine if they wanna answer it and they lookm at you like you've just asked them to shoot their best friend...

From what you've said though, I think you'd be fairly in tune with what is required.

[helly]

Ratt, Yeah actually I'm glad you asked... It was Myself, and two other guys from Hay. It's probably the biggest arrest of that type I have ever done... In a bout two years time when the thing gets finished up with at court, I'll tell you all about it... Nice feeling all round.

Greengopher, that's excatly the point isn't it, no one can post anything official that says you can fit a neon to a vehicle. The ADR guidlines stipulate all kinds of things, however no where do the say you can have a 'neon', however it does specify all kinds of other lights, lens types blah blah. That is exactly why they are not legal, because they do not comply with the standard...

That's what the offence is, "Not comply with standard" (meaning either the VSI or ADR, as long as it is a breach of at least one) or "Illegal use of lights" I will post the AAR numbers and Road Transport Act/Reg Sec numbers when I get back to work in a few days if anyone wants them...

I'm not going to waste everyone's time any further by trying to find the answers for you here. The Fact is that no one that says you can fit them can find anything to post that says, "you can fit a neon light to the exterior or interior of a vehicle and drive your car"...

Neon lights are dangerous in accidents and can cause ignition of fuel vapour and make youre car go KABOOM!!! and maybe KAPOW!!! If your in the Bat Mobile. So that is why they are not ADR compliant.

I do believe that the ADR list DOES NOT not include a list of things that aren't in it... If that makes sense!!! And if it's not in the list, then it doesn't comply... Hence the offence, not comply with standard... Oh I think I already said that...

Oh well, I guess I'll just have to write up the next guy I see and we'll see if we can't push the matter on to the spureme court... Then we'll all know for sure! Just for the benefit of this forum I suppose... I'll get to the truth somehow!

[Insanesinner]

No its not illegal as such, but if you were jumping out in front of people and trying to pull them over, I guess you could be considered to be acting in a dangerous or offensive manner. You could be charged with a few different offences if someone wanted to get creative.

To do with hitch hikeing i was once pulled over for just standing on the side of the road out of town hitch hikeing and got a $30 fine for soliciting a ride.

[rattattack1313]

Ratt, Yeah actually I'm glad you asked... It was Myself, and two other guys from Hay. It's probably the biggest arrest of that type I have ever done... In a bout two years time when the thing gets finished up with at court, I'll tell you all about it... Nice feeling all round.

Well done, mate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Am really glad you didn't get hurt or anything during it.... ............speed-freaks are pretty unpredictable......Never indulged in in myself, but have , unfortunately, seen, over the years, quite a few people go down ( as in die) from injecting drugs etc......my cousin John died a few years ago from a dose of heroin that he thought he could master......lost that race, poor bugger...... A few youngsters I know in Mackay ,QLD, will never be the same again, from a few too many eccies.....really sad...............

[Troy711]

THIS IS LONG ***READ AT YOUR OWN RISK*

i saw all the text and decided to not read it... instead i scratched my head in amazement... i was amazed at why someone would TYPE SO FUGGIN MUCH. anywho, the point is.. as i scratched my head a little pience of dandruff fell out and landed in my bowl of christmas pudding and cream. i cried

[Troy711]

ok, serious questions now...

do coppers allow 10% for speedo error?
do cops listen to CDs of the radio while driving?
am i too fat to be a cop?
can an out of state copper book you for (example) speeding even though he/she is not in his/her own state?

[Boonz]

ok if a police file is lost and you have been officially cleared of your offence from loss of evidence can they charge you for it again if they find that certain file after you have been cleaerd????

[Just_Ice]

ok, serious questions now...

do coppers allow 10% for speedo error?
do cops listen to CDs of the radio while driving?
am i too fat to be a cop?
can an out of state copper book you for (example) speeding even though he/she is not in his/her own state?

Wouldn't say 10%, but some have different limits.... 10 or 15 k's over...
sometimes the odd Cd is put in.
No never too fat
Would like to see them book you for speeding... To do it from a speedo it would need to be caibrated, its not in there state so no..... What they could do is pass on if (just like a witness) to the states police and go from there....

[gopher]

am i too fat to be a cop?

probably to get into the academy.

but judging by some of the coppers i've seen once your through the academy you can let yourself go

[holden#1]

how does this sound...
on a long drive say brissy to melb, it makes a difference whether you travel even 1k faster per hour. ask any truckie.
well when my speedo reads 115, i'm actually travelling at 111kph. (tested by speed boards & gps navigation...
so I sit on 115kph in the 110kph zone cause of the bloody inbuilt error...

talking about truckies, i was following one north of Narrandera last year. empty fruit&veg B Double returning to QLD. I didn't follow him but he was doing between 140 & 150kph. see, I like to follow trucks to get in their drag and save fuel, not so close to be tailgating though. there was no chance with following that one though!
how the hell does one keep a truck upright at those speeds???

helly, ludacris,
if this trucky was caught, he would've lost his licence... are these truckies too smart to get caught or what??? i've seen it a few times, specially on the Newell.

[holden#1]

another one for yas...

the below story explains itself.
while the incident was being 'investigated', fine was put on 'hold', went to pay it at Qld Transport after my letter was rejected, was told they couldn't process it because something was greyed out?? haven't heard nothing six months later... i'm thinking maybe I should look into it. what do ya reckon?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Traffic Infringement Notice

Dear Sir / Madam,

On the 15th of July 2005 at approximately 15.05hrs, I was stopped by a patrol car near the intersection of ... and ... Streets, .... I first noticed patrol car directly behind my vehicle with lights flashing after proceeding through the intersection of ... and ...After pulling over, a Constable... , registration #... , proceeded to approach my vehicle. I was asked ‘Do you realize why you have been stopped?’ to this I replied ‘No. I am not aware of committing any offence’. Constable... then stated ‘I heard a screech coming from your vehicle’. I replied ‘I am most definitely unaware of this’ I then added that ‘a slight noise may have not been noticed by myself as I had radio turned on’ at this Constable... asked me how loud my radio was. I turned ignition switch on; radio came on at which Constable .... agreed it was not excessively loud. (My Rodeo work Ute does not have any high power sound system). Constable ... then replied that ‘I was not directly behind your vehicle – I heard the screech, you must have as well’ In any case, I did not continue to turn this into an argument with the Constable, and in a somewhat confused state was handed the Infringement Notice.

Knowing full well that screeching / squealing noise definitely did not come from my tyres, I decided to go for a drive and try and figure out what this noise could have been. I tried various scenarios i.e different levels of acceleration, braking and cornering and subsequently found that under acceleration the fan belt would at times intermittently emit a squealing / screeching noise.

On the next business day Monday the 18th of July 2005, I took my vehicle to my mechanic,... Mechanical at ..., and requested that he would have a look at fixing my fan belt so there would be no chance of it emitting any noise in future. Would you please find copy of invoice enclosed.

I believe that this Infringement Notice was issued unnecessarily under the circumstances, and ask that you review this case and at your discretion revoke the said infringement notice.

Yours Sincerely,
...


Other factors are:
Cops were 3 cars behind me when lights first went on.
I was in full knowledge of their presence over the past 2k's
I was not operating vehicle in dangerous manner ( no smoke, sliding )

If I was stupid enough to make a public nuisance by doing a burnout with a rodeo work ute on a public road at 3pm friday arvo, i would be more than happy to 'do the crime, pay the fine'.

Be interesting to see how this goes. so far received a letter acknowledging mine.

I understand the point of police having discretionary powers, at least this can be balanced out by taking matters to court. has anyone had any success with doing this?? does anyone know details of what would happen at hearing?
__________________

after my letter was rejected by Officer in Charge Traffic Branch, I had to go to lawyers for some other matter, got told letter was too flimsy to go to court with. told don't bother. If I had of worded it differently it woud have been o.k they reckon.

[Just_Ice]

how does this sound...
on a long drive say brissy to melb, it makes a difference whether you travel even 1k faster per hour. ask any truckie.
well when my speedo reads 115, i'm actually travelling at 111kph. (tested by speed boards & gps navigation...
so I sit on 115kph in the 110kph zone cause of the bloody inbuilt error...

talking about truckies, i was following one north of Narrandera last year. empty fruit&veg B Double returning to QLD. I didn't follow him but he was doing between 140 & 150kph. see, I like to follow trucks to get in their drag and save fuel, not so close to be tailgating though. there was no chance with following that one though!
how the hell does one keep a truck upright at those speeds???

helly, ludacris,
if this trucky was caught, he would've lost his licence... are these truckies too smart to get caught or what??? i've seen it a few times, specially on the Newell.

I once dealt with a trucking company and the owner fitted GPS systems to all his trucks.. Should one of his trucks speed it would alert him in his office on computer..... He would then send a message to the driver through the on dash display... That is one dedicated boss......... I actually looked into this as one of his trucks rolled on its side..... We were able to be told how hard he braked, when he braked, how fast he was going at the time..........great system.....

[Boonz]

if truckies speed now they get raped by the point to point camera's if they are undertime over a certain distance

[holden#1]

yeah, on the main runs it stuffs em up... unless they know a few side streets!
depends where there travelling to i spose

[minux]

if truckies speed now they get raped by the point to point camera's if they are undertime over a certain distance

Most just go to sleep before the next camera, great to make up time and get in your 5 hr breaks

[Tasmaniak]

I once dealt with a trucking company and the owner fitted GPS systems to all his trucks.. Should one of his trucks speed it would alert him in his office on computer..... He would then send a message to the driver through the on dash display... That is one dedicated boss......... I actually looked into this as one of his trucks rolled on its side..... We were able to be told how hard he braked, when he braked, how fast he was going at the time..........great system.....

Fair chance it was me or one of my mates that installed that system. The company that employed me held the monopoly on the GPS systems.

Minux. There is no way in hell you can bypass the speed that GPS system logs you at.

The GPS system measure the time taken between two points (little bit more then a bees dick) and calculates your speed. The GPS system are in no way tied into the EMS of the truck. It merely takes readings from the various sensors around the motor. But it does not take a speed reading. Thats done by the satellites. The GPS tracking system used in trucks (different to the Navigation systems) does not process speed at all. It simply sends its position to a central server multiple times and then the server calculates the speed itself and displays it on a terminal at the company headquarters or anywhere logged in.

If there is a truck showing 100km at 2300rpm in top gear....then it's a simple fix! Remove the Satellite from the sky and repair/replace it. The vehicle speed reports on GPS TRACKING devices will soon be used as evidence in the court system as they cannot be modified by ANYONE

[holden#1]

i once took my Gps Nav system on a flight to melbourne.
it was very interesting to see 800kph come up on digital speedo.
took off at 350kph. acceleration was a lot slower than i thought it would be...

[Tasmaniak]

To see something really interesting...hold your GPS at arms length and spin around and around as fast as you can :P

[Troy711]

i once took my Gps Nav system on a flight to melbourne.
it was very interesting to see 800kph come up on digital speedo.
took off at 350kph. acceleration was a lot slower than i thought it would be...

oh noes.. it could have screwed with the planes navigation system and caused it to implode on impact!

[holden#1]

got hostess to ask pilot if it was o.k.

He said there was enough signal to go around & as it was daytime he could see where he was going anyhow.