Ask The Copper

[Ripcell]

Have you actually obtained your licence and just waiting for it to be sent out?

If this is the case I'm assuming you're referring to the piece of paper that's sort of your licence receipt. You should be fine as this bit of paper has all your licence details on it and you would have a licence listed with VicRoads.

If you're pulled over in the meantime just explain the story. The police stopping you will conduct a check and find that you have a current licence. The only issue is that you're not carrying it, but I would say that you have a reasonable excuse.

Just keep hassling VicRoads or perhaps even pay them a visit.

ok thanks for clearing that up, yes i have obtained both my car and bike licenses, i am just waiting for them to send me out the card with both my bike and car licenses on it, (as you know, a separate Learners permit for bike).

but yes, i do have my license, with all my points etc so i should be fine.

thanks for that

[minux]

Since when did vicroads stop doing licences on the spot? Whenever i renew mine, i have my pic take, 5 mins later they hand me my licence.

[NOT.BT1]

just a quick question is it illegal to do burnouts or what ever on private property only ask cause a mate of mine is planning a party out on his parents property and he has a lot of old paddock bashers out there and we were going to have some fun with them but i have heard it is illegal the property is about 5 km out of town anylight you could shed on this for me would be great thanx in advance VicCop

[JD]

just a quick question is it illegal to do burnouts or what ever on private property only ask cause a mate of mine is planning a party out on his parents property and he has a lot of old paddock bashers out there and we were going to have some fun with them but i have heard it is illegal the property is about 5 km out of town anylight you could shed on this for me would be great thanx in advance VicCop

if you have close by neighbours they could complain about noise but i think thats about all they ( police ) can do.

[NOT.BT1]

the nearest neighbour is about 500 metres down the road so maybe nothing to worry about got told that you can get a fine for air polution cause of the smoke just thought i would make sure before we do it thanx jd

[JD]

the nearest neighbour is about 500 metres down the road so maybe nothing to worry about got told that you can get a fine for air polution cause of the smoke just thought i would make sure before we do it thanx jd

Air pollution is a possibilty, maybe check with epa or something?

burnouts comp's are allowed to do it but i think they need a special permit

[minux]

You cant get done for burnouts on your property by police, EPA however is a different story.

[Just_Ice]

Check your states legislation of the term 'Public Place' because if you are having a party and people are invited then it is a Place open and being used by the public, thus open to all the laws of the road.

The term }public place~ includes

(a) a place to which the public, or any section of the public, has or is permitted to have access, whether on payment or otherwise;

(b) a privately owned place to which the public has access with the express or implied approval of, or without interference from, the owner, occupier or person who has the control or management of the place; and

(c) a school, university or other place of education, other than a part of it to which neither students nor the public usually have access

[VicCop]

just a quick question is it illegal to do burnouts or what ever on private property only ask cause a mate of mine is planning a party out on his parents property and he has a lot of old paddock bashers out there and we were going to have some fun with them but i have heard it is illegal the property is about 5 km out of town anylight you could shed on this for me would be great thanx in advance VicCop

No doubt that everyone would have seen the media coverage of the new hooning facility in Cambellfield. I can't remember what it's called. It's basically got a track and a skid pan where people show up and pay a fee to do burnouts etc.

It was reported that local police won't officially back the place. One reason: The offence of "Drive in a Manner Dangerous" can occur ANYWHERE!

That's correct. Even on your own private property driving in such a manner that is dangerous is illegal.

As someone else said, the neighbours might complain. Even if the nearest neighbours aren't close by, someone will still hear or see something and make a complaint bringing attention to yourself.

I really don't think it is advisable to hold a party with the intention of putting on a show of cars doing burnouts and other things similar. With parties you've got alcohol. There's always the temptation to take things further and it could all end up in a coroner's inquest.

[klaw81]

The offence of "Drive in a Manner Dangerous" can occur ANYWHERE!

That's correct. Even on your own private property driving in such a manner that is dangerous is illegal.

I really don't think it is advisable to hold a party with the intention of putting on a show of cars doing burnouts and other things similar. With parties you've got alcohol. There's always the temptation to take things further and it could all end up in a coroner's inquest.

You could say the same about a bunch of mates with dirt buggies or motorbikes, if they're jumping them, doing donuts or generally horsing around. But they're not registered vehicles, so would that law still apply?

What about riding push-bikes (or tricycles for that matter) without a helmet on your own land....theoritically that's dangerous too, and it would be illegal if you were on public property.

As if it's even vaguely reasonable to book anyone for doing a burnout in their own private property! No offence - I know you're trying to be helpful - but geez the law is an ass sometimes.

[NOT.BT1]

another question can a 3 year old child sit in the front seat of a ute (bench seat vs commodore) in the middle with nothing but a lap strap? i ask because my stepfather gets custody of his 3 year old and every now and then the mother picks up the child in the ute no booster seat or anything just lap strap it just doesnt seem safe to me or my stepfather. i know there are laws about children in the front seat of passenger car is there anything about 3 seater utes

[NOT.BT1]

i dont think we will risk having the party in this case thanx viccop and everyone else for the info

[VicCop]

You could say the same about a bunch of mates with dirt buggies or motorbikes, if they're jumping them, doing donuts or generally horsing around. But they're not registered vehicles, so would that law still apply?

What about riding push-bikes (or tricycles for that matter) without a helmet on your own land....theoritically that's dangerous too, and it would be illegal if you were on public property.

As if it's even vaguely reasonable to book anyone for doing a burnout in their own private property! No offence - I know you're trying to be helpful - but geez the law is an ass sometimes.

It works both ways. The law if a pain in the rear end for me plenty of times. Some say that it was devised to get in the way of police.

Some common sense would apply in terms of what you're driving and what you're doing with it. If you're talking push bikes, they don't really fit the category of "motor vehicles" which is what most of the Victorian Road Safety Act 1986 covers.

Remember also that the offence I specified is "Drive in a MANNER Dangerous". Being the MANNER in which a motor vehicle is being driven.

There's an even better one of "Drive at a Speed Dangerous". That doesn't even need an actual speed reading. It's only if you're driving at a speed that is dangerous in the circumstances. Such as doing 60 km/h through a busy shopping centre car park. 60 isn't very fast, but in the said circumstances it is dangerous.

[VicCop]

another question can a 3 year old child sit in the front seat of a ute (bench seat vs commodore) in the middle with nothing but a lap strap? i ask because my stepfather gets custody of his 3 year old and every now and then the mother picks up the child in the ute no booster seat or anything just lap strap it just doesnt seem safe to me or my stepfather. i know there are laws about children in the front seat of passenger car is there anything about 3 seater utes

I get asked this question plenty of times. My mother in law also told me off once for letting my four year old sit in the front seat, thinking it was illegal.

There used to be a law saying they had to be 12 or above, or something like that. That was a long time ago. There's no minimum age anymore.

The only requirement is that the seatbelt must be able to properly secure them. You can also use a child restraint in the front seat, provided it's properly fitted and capable of securing them. I think that most of our modern car manufacturers advise against it due to hazards created by airbags, especially for rear facing infant seats.

[minux]

i dont think we will risk having the party in this case thanx viccop and everyone else for the info

Have it, we run a 30 car paddock bomb bathurst each year. We have 3 police officers who join in(friends/family) not once have they stated it is illegal, nor have they said anything could come of it. I think some police just liek to scare people away with the idea.

[Sabbath']

That's correct. Even on your own private property driving in such a manner that is dangerous is illegal.

*Vent Complete*


Sorry
Delete Please

[NOT.BT1]

see what happens with this party might talk to my mate whose farm it was going to happen on and see what happens if it goes ahead and police get called then so be it there will be alcohol involved but that will happen after the burnouts there is about 10 cars out there and we plan to kill about 40 tyres as for neighbours dobbing us in they are coming if it goes ahead

[Taso]

Hey, i was wondering whether ne1 can answer this regarding the hoon laws in VIC.

If u get ur car confiscated do u automatically have to appear in court, or do u just pay to get it back and pay the infringement fine?

Also if ur caught hooning/speeding in another state, what happens then, do they send the fine back to the original state

[VicCop]

Hey, i was wondering whether ne1 can answer this regarding the hoon laws in VIC.

If u get ur car confiscated do u automatically have to appear in court, or do u just pay to get it back and pay the infringement fine?

To have your car impounded you need to have committed the relevant offence. Committing that offence means that you'll be summonsed for "Improper Use of a Motor Vehicle". This was the new offence created when the new legislation was drafted. Your car can't be towed and you not charged with anything. The offence needs to be brough before the courts for the impoundment to be lawful.

Also if ur caught hooning/speeding in another state, what happens then, do they send the fine back to the original state

When you're in another state you need to abide by their laws. You're issued with a ticket under their laws and it's payable to them.

I think that in Victoria there's only one thing we communicate with other states about and that's drink driving offences. A person who is on an interstate licence and gets picked up for 05 can cop a disqualification from it. It only means that they're disqualified from driving in Victoria. However advice may be sent to the roads authority from their own state letting them know. What happends back home is up to their own roads authority. They could do nothing about it or disqualify them from driving there as well.

[VicCop]

Have it, we run a 30 car paddock bomb bathurst each year. We have 3 police officers who join in(friends/family) not once have they stated it is illegal, nor have they said anything could come of it. I think some police just liek to scare people away with the idea.

Taken straight from the Road Safety Act 1986:

64. Dangerous driving
(1) A person must not drive a motor vehicle at a
speed or in a manner which is dangerous to the
public, having regard to all the circumstances of
the case.

Now here's careless driving:

65. Careless driving
A person who drives a motor vehicle on a
highway carelessly is guilty of an offence and
liable for a first offence to a penalty of not more
than 12 penalty units and for a subsequent offence
to a penalty of not more than 25 penalty units.

Notice the difference? Hint hint, it's the bold part in section 65. The manner dangerous offence doesn't mention "on a highway". Meaning it occurs anywhere if a motor vehicle is being driven in such a manner or speed that is dangerous to the public.

There are some that will now argue that this could be implied in section 64. The law isn't like that - what is there is there.

Of course there are coppers who go to these events. Do you know we even sleep and eat too? Amazing I know, we're people too! We're not all robots that see this black and white line between everything.

The whole issue with this party mentioned is that you're planning to have a heap of people get together, booze up and drive around a paddock. You would also be held accountable to this classic bit of legislation:

49. Offences involving alcohol or other drugs
(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he or she—
(a) drives a motor vehicle or is in charge of a
motor vehicle while under the influence of
intoxicating liquor or of any drug to such an
extent as to be incapable of having proper
control of the motor vehicle

Same as above there. No mention of being "on a highway". This bit under 49 1 (a) is the "drive under the influence" which is the part that says that you don't need to be over 05. That's right. If you're under 05 on a reading but you appear to be pissed and incapable of driving you can be charged anyway.

[klaw81]

Can I point out the obvious flaw in this argument? You say this is about what is and isn't written in the law, but you're quoting from the "Road Safety Act." Surely that means the laws are applicable only to roads, or at very most, public property.

By the way, I don't mean to make this a personal attack. I think it's great that you can participate in forums like this.

[Shounak]

Lovin the work coppers.. Now I've got another question..

I got a speeding ticket in NSW for 3 points, issued by a HWP.. What happens if I don't pay the fine? Can a sherriff's warrant be issued because it's an interstate fine?

Also will the points be recorded if I don't pay it.

I've been told by a mate doing criminal justice that all NSW can do is disqualify me from driving there and Vicroads can't give me the points unless I pay the thing.

Also, I asked this question earlier..

Is it legal for a bike to split at stationary lights (have heard heaps of opinions). Some say its legal if you do it on the right of cars and indicate and some say its plain illegal. If so, have you ever done anything about it, I don't imagine it'd be too easy sitting in a Commo at gridlocked lights..

I noticed in Sydney that no bikes were splitting. I saw millions of bikes, not one splitting. Whereas in Melbourne, every bike splits traffic.

This question is more to VicCop, have you written anyone up for it? If so, what was the offence?

Cheers fellas..

[VicCop]

Can I point out the obvious flaw in this argument? You say this is about what is and isn't written in the law, but you're quoting from the "Road Safety Act." Surely that means the laws are applicable only to roads, or at very most, public property.

By the way, I don't mean to make this a personal attack. I think it's great that you can participate in forums like this.

Personal attack? Not at all, I enjoy these discussions. The whole reason I participate in this forum is because road safety issues is what interests me.

Also in case no one realised, Victoria is already up to a road toll of 37. I almost had the pleasure of attending that double fatal out near Berwick recently where a HSV Clubsport went underneath a B double. That was just one fatal in a very bad week.

The Road Safety Act doesn't just cover "roads" as it says in the title nor does it just apply to public property. The titles of acts and statute rules only classify what sort of area they cover. That way I'm not going to look for a traffic related matter in the Control of Weapons Act. Do you get the idea?

[Sabbath']

How is doing 200km on a race track different from doing burnouts in your backyard?? Its a piece of privately owned land right? And theres danger to the driver and spectator, many spectators get boozed up at race meets...why the difference?

[minux]

64. Dangerous driving
(1) A person must not drive a motor vehicle at a
speed or in a manner which is dangerous to the
public, having regard to all the circumstances of
the case.

Now here's careless driving:

65. Careless driving
A person who drives a motor vehicle on a
highway carelessly is guilty of an offence and
liable for a first offence to a penalty of not more
than 12 penalty units and for a subsequent offence
to a penalty of not more than 25 penalty units.

So if i get charged for careless driving on small suburban street i can have the charge challenged because it was not on a highway?

Now, from what i understand in regards to council rulings, a person is no longer classified as being in public once on private property, hence you cannot sue the council for breaking your leg on your step.

I guarantee in court a decent lawyer would get you off a dangerous driving charge you received while driving in a fenced off paddock.


I am not knocking you, just saying things how i see/hear it. I am yet to see a person charged with dangerous driving or drink driving while in a paddock bomb on their own property without leaving the premise.