Ethanol Blend E10 fuel?

[Wombat]

Anyone know how the Ecotec V6 responds to this stuff? I know our good old state grubbyment up here in Queensland want to mandate the stuff, so you have no choice in whether you use it or not. How would this affect our cars? I have a 96 VS-II Berlina with the Ecotec V6.
There are many cars I know which simply can't use it. Hyundai :b: has said that thier cars from 1994 back cannot use it, and that from 1994 to late 2003 they are "unsure", and if "problems persist, go back to normal unleaded"...well that's fine...unless your stupid government has "mandated" it and you have no choice.
I have one friend up north who has has a few problems with his VR V6 wagon when he tried E10, but that is the older V6.

Any ideas?

[midnight.outlaw]

Is E10 10% ethanol? if it is, it's pretty bad for almost any motor. We used to use petrol from the station that had Ethanol in it for our boat and it ate away at one of the valves until it broke off, essentially stuffing the engine until it was properly fixed. so yeah, bad if it's that ethanol crap

[Garth]

ethanole is bad, it makes any car burn hotter, so imagin the heat your valves and stuff are getting during the explosion. so yeah, you could say it's not a good thing that's for sure

i surely dont think the grubbyment could be that stupid, after all, remember, qld is the smart state

[Wombat]

Oh believe me mate, they will if they can get away with it...the cane farmers and environmentalists up here are for once pointing in the same direction. They want it compulsory in all unleaded fuel here.
Yep, "E10" is 10% ethanol. Most car makers have a list of which of thier vehicles are OK, which are not, and which are "questionable". It is the "Not OK", and the "questionable" which are frightening.
Say you've got a rather nice car, a Commodore of course, and it is a pretty late model, VS, VT, whatever. Now, say they bring in E10 as manditory in all service stations up here in Queensland, and you find out your car is not able to run on it very well, if at all. "Oh, I'll sell it and buy a much newer one that will run on the crap". Really...? And who will buy it? It would have exactly zero resale value...you may as well park it in the back yard and make a chook shed out of it.

"Smart State"....? Yeah right....

Maybe Holden themselves will tell us if we ask...but then again, a lot of car makers are very very cagey when you try to pin them down on whether it is suitable for your car...warantee worries you see... :b:

[jules]

FCAI list of cars that can run on ethanol.

E10 is mostly fine for post-86 cars with EFI, it's not so good for most carbied cars. it melts the floats and eats the fuel lines.

the major problems with ethanol were surrounding dodgy servos selling E30

[hako]

Boy, those oil companies can sure spread good stories eh! especially when they stand to lose market (read money). Quite a few states in the USA allow ethanol blended fuels apart from many South American countries - some use 100% ethanol. If you were a canefarmer watching your farm being reposessed you may think differently. I live where many are going to the wall - dont listen to rumours - find the facts....oh yes...never believe a politician. Regards

[jules]

you can't run 100% ethanol in a car designed for petrol.

the US has run low-blends like E10 for a while - their cars are designed for it. most cars sold here are also fine - it's when dick honan (who owns manildra) started pumping it up to E30 that problems arose - particularly for older cars.

it's sad that cane farmers are against the wall - but i don't want my fuel system clogged up in trying to help them out!

[midnight.outlaw]

Think about the old way of getting back at someone, by destoying thier engine by putting sugar in thier gas tank!, and what is ethanol made of ?? ... thats right.

[hako]

Midnight.outlaw.....what do you thing Bundy is made of? - sugar...same as ethanol, and by the way, most of the ethanol sold in Australia is imported or made locally from wheat or other grain. Do a GOOGLE search to find about ethanol because when oil is over $100 a barrel and you're paying $3 per litre for gas you'll be more than happy to pay half that for ethanol.

[jules]

it costs a lot more than that to make ethanol. the only reason it competes with petrol is because there's an over-supply of the raw materials used to produce it at present.

if every car ran on ethanol, there's no way we could supply enough of it.

[Wombat]

It's sad that the propoganda machines keep quoting Brazil as a shining light, where a lot of cars use 100% ethanol. That's quite true...they just don't mention the one teeny tiny fact that these cars come from the factory built especially to run on 100% ethanol. Try sticking even 50% ethanol in your nice Commodore and, if it starts and runs, you may as well drive it to the wreckers...because that's where it will soon end up running that stuff!

Another point is that ethanol production is (forgive me if it's the wrong term) "energy negative", in other words it takes more energy to grow and harvest and produce and refine than you save by burning it instead of petrol.

And did anyone else check that list of cars that can't run on the crap? I mean sure...Commodores look like they can...possibly...but look at the list that won't! It includes Daewoo, Diahatsu, Nissans before 1 Jan 2004, Most Suzukis, a lot of Subarus...it also says with Kia and a few others that if problems occur, go back to ULP...which is OK if you can still buy it...
That might not affect us much, but how could the government talk about bringing in as compulsory a fuel that makes so many peoples cars worthless overnight? What would be worse is if you had just shelled out on an MGF, Ferrari, or Maserati...in the last two cases you would have a $150,000 decorative garden ornament if they take normal unleaded off the market and make E10 compulsory.... :b:

I just went back and took another look at that list...someone elses car they would make worthless is my 78 year old mothers 1996 Mazda 121 Metro...thanks all you cane farmer and environmentalist type guys if you get your way and E10 becomes compulsory up here in Queensland...that's just the sort of polluting old car we want to get off the roads with your clean green ideas...she'll love you for it...and so do I, because I also noticed that my 1984 BMW motorcycle won't run on it either...arseholes..... :b:

[jules]

wombat,
yes, ethanol's energy balance is negative - which means it takes more energy to produce it than is released in combustion. that isn't a big deal - what's more important is how it compares with petroleum. altho petroleum is a lot more efficient to produce, it is non-renewable.

that list isn't definitive imo. a lot of car-makers would hvae just said "hmmm. i'm not sure - easier to advise people not to run ethanol." essentially most post-86 models will run E10 without any major problems. the components are mostly sourced from international suppliers, who will most likely ensure their parts are compatible with ethanol.

there's no chance it will be made compulsory. that was just dick honan spouting off.

[midnight.outlaw]

Originally Posted by hako

Midnight.outlaw.....what do you thing Bundy is made of? - sugar...same as ethanol,

DUH

and by the way, most of the ethanol sold in Australia is imported or made locally from wheat or other grain.

So?

Do a GOOGLE search to find about ethanol because when oil is over $100 a barrel and you're paying $3 per litre for gas you'll be more than happy to pay half that for ethanol.

No I'd rather keep my car running thanks.

[HSVKEV260R8]

YEs it's ok, I have done a couple of trips to Adelaide recently in my old VT s1 Auto V6 and they were consistent with what was shown on a recent episode of Today-Tonight on CH7. One trip I did was on 98RON Optimax, The other on 94RON ULP Plus E10 from United Fuels. The Optimax barely got me to Adelaide after filling up in Rockbank in Melbournes Outer West. The E10 was got from a United Servo some 15 ks further into Mlebourne and it not only got me to my accomodation but back to the Airport in Adelaide where I refilled the car at the United Servo there, to my surprise it only took 58 ltrs!! This meant I still had some 17 Ltrs left, giving me an effective range of some 900kms from 1 tank. I just recently sold this car with 262000kms on it, and still going strong, so I have no doubt about the quality of E10 fuels, I am now using it in my 2003 VY Clubby R8, with similar differences in economy, stay tuned, I will be driving it to the Gold Coast soon, I will let you know how well it goes on the open flat 110km/h roads of mid central NSW.