| General Anything not relating to one of the following Holden Commodore categories |
28-12-2005, 08:14 AM
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Ride: 'Enhanced' Y Series Senator Sig
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Geelong
Posts: 5,656
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Garth
upon reading that link i posted, i stand corrected
underbody neons are permited to be fitted to your car
i mean, you can put any neons you want under your or ontop of or all over yoru car, providing they meat with the following requirements
they dotn flash, they arnt used when driving, can be switched independently, and arnt yellow, or blue, i they are red, they must face the rear of the car, i.e. face backwards, and be operatable by the brake peddle switch
my appologies go out to minux, i stand corrected
you need to refer to both of the links i have put up guy's about this, one tells you wnat you can be defected for, and the other tells you what yoru car can be fitted with, but not neccesairly used
cheers
garth
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No need to apoligise m8. Good of you to do so though 
Im almost certain the same laws apply across the board in most states, seems to be the same ADR compliances. Not too sure, i only know of Vic, QLD, SA and WA mainly because its where i have contacts.
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30-12-2005, 11:02 PM
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NSWPF
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Ride: VE SS, VY SS, BF XR6T & TERRITORY
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: NSW
Posts: 366
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THIS IS LONG ***READ AT YOUR OWN RISK*
The problem is Matrix, that lots of people do that, and it gets them in trouble...
It's been mentioned before that some people on this forum think that just because they have done a search in one peice of legislation and found what they beleive to be a justification for what ever they are doing, that they are in the right. And these people will stick to their guns no matter how much you tell them they may be wrong, because they think they have it in writing so its all good...
The problem is that a lot of the time there is more than one peice of legislation that covers any particular issue. For instance the issue of neons is a debarcle. Just because you find one section within a peice of legislation that says you may fit a particular light to a car doesn't mean that what you are actually doing is not in breach of another section of that same act/regulation or even another peice of legislation all together.
The matter of neons is that you could actually be given a defect for having them fitted to your car if the officer deemed that they were in ANY WAY a danger to a pedestrian or other motorist. They wouldn't have to be turned on whilst driving either for this to be considered dangerous. Maybe they are located in a pedestrian impact zone or police believe that they are not fitted securely and may come off whilst driving. The general rule is that ANYTHING not fitted standard to a vehicle is probably open to being defected under the "not comply with standard" rule. Basically a blow off valve can be defected because there is no compliance for one under the vehicle standards regulations and guidelines. A neon light fitted to a car definately does not comply with any standards for vehicle's within Australia. And these standards are a National Compliance deal so it doesn't matter what state you are in. The cop is not going to be wrong in this situation for giving you a pill, even though you have it in writing that a car can have other lights fitted.
The real issue is that people seem to be hunting for something in writing to JUSTIFY what they are doing. If you're looking that hard, you will find something that makes you think you're in the right, and no doubt miss the things that screw it up for you. Just remember that legislation is never written to make it easy for the general public to just look up a rule and know what the go is... In reality its just not that simple.
Cops are human, that's for sure and from time to time even the most experienced one's who really know their Sh*t stuff up, for the above reasons I'm sure. The real drama for me is the ones who go out of their way to ruin people's days and make my job all that much harder. Most of the stuff above, I personally wouldn't really waste my time with. I'd probably just rib you about the neons and try and embarrass you in front of your sixteen year old girlfriend (Just kidding, and not directed at anyone in particular... Just everyone that has neons HAHA).
Matrix, I know you weren't making a deal about having neons or anything and your post is mostly supportive of police (I think), but the point just needs to be made that some of the guys/gals on the forum seem to think that they can just pull out a peice of paper and show it to the police and think they will get off.
Really, all that does is give the officer the heads up that he needs to make sure he uses the exact offence, or a different one which attacks the same issue from a different stand point.
Just remember that a little knowledge is much more dangerous than a lot...
Depending on who you are of course!
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31-12-2005, 02:42 AM
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Ride: N/A
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Perth
Posts: 469
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by helly
THIS IS LONG ***READ AT YOUR OWN RISK*
The problem is Matrix, that lots of people do that, and it gets them in trouble...
It's been mentioned before that some people on this forum think that just because they have done a search in one peice of legislation and found what they beleive to be a justification for what ever they are doing, that they are in the right. And these people will stick to their guns no matter how much you tell them they may be wrong, because they think they have it in writing so its all good...
The problem is that a lot of the time there is more than one peice of legislation that covers any particular issue. For instance the issue of neons is a debarcle. Just because you find one section within a peice of legislation that says you may fit a particular light to a car doesn't mean that what you are actually doing is not in breach of another section of that same act/regulation or even another peice of legislation all together.
The matter of neons is that you could actually be given a defect for having them fitted to your car if the officer deemed that they were in ANY WAY a danger to a pedestrian or other motorist. They wouldn't have to be turned on whilst driving either for this to be considered dangerous. Maybe they are located in a pedestrian impact zone or police believe that they are not fitted securely and may come off whilst driving. The general rule is that ANYTHING not fitted standard to a vehicle is probably open to being defected under the "not comply with standard" rule. Basically a blow off valve can be defected because there is no compliance for one under the vehicle standards regulations and guidelines. A neon light fitted to a car definately does not comply with any standards for vehicle's within Australia. And these standards are a National Compliance deal so it doesn't matter what state you are in. The cop is not going to be wrong in this situation for giving you a pill, even though you have it in writing that a car can have other lights fitted.
The real issue is that people seem to be hunting for something in writing to JUSTIFY what they are doing. If you're looking that hard, you will find something that makes you think you're in the right, and no doubt miss the things that screw it up for you. Just remember that legislation is never written to make it easy for the general public to just look up a rule and know what the go is... In reality its just not that simple.
Cops are human, that's for sure and from time to time even the most experienced one's who really know their Sh*t stuff up, for the above reasons I'm sure. The real drama for me is the ones who go out of their way to ruin people's days and make my job all that much harder. Most of the stuff above, I personally wouldn't really waste my time with. I'd probably just rib you about the neons and try and embarrass you in front of your sixteen year old girlfriend (Just kidding, and not directed at anyone in particular... Just everyone that has neons HAHA).
Matrix, I know you weren't making a deal about having neons or anything and your post is mostly supportive of police (I think), but the point just needs to be made that some of the guys/gals on the forum seem to think that they can just pull out a peice of paper and show it to the police and think they will get off.
Really, all that does is give the officer the heads up that he needs to make sure he uses the exact offence, or a different one which attacks the same issue from a different stand point.
Just remember that a little knowledge is much more dangerous than a lot...
Depending on who you are of course!
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__________________
" Behold the turtle. He makes progress only when he sticks his neck out "
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31-12-2005, 08:47 AM
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Doof, Doof, Doof
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Ride: VY2 SS 5.7L A4
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Really Rural Queensland
Posts: 237
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That was really good Helly, thank you for a very clear insight into what could possibly be the murkiest area of Australian Law.
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31-12-2005, 08:55 AM
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Smarter than you - JC Mod
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Ride: Mercedes 280SE
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Warrnambool
Posts: 3,043
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like helly said, i think that post stands for anything you're adding to the car....or removing.
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31-12-2005, 09:00 AM
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Ride: 'Enhanced' Y Series Senator Sig
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Geelong
Posts: 5,656
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by helly
THIS IS LONG ***READ AT YOUR OWN RISK*
The problem is Matrix, that lots of people do that, and it gets them in trouble...
It's been mentioned before that some people on this forum think that just because they have done a search in one peice of legislation and found what they beleive to be a justification for what ever they are doing, that they are in the right. And these people will stick to their guns no matter how much you tell them they may be wrong, because they think they have it in writing so its all good...
The problem is that a lot of the time there is more than one peice of legislation that covers any particular issue. For instance the issue of neons is a debarcle. Just because you find one section within a peice of legislation that says you may fit a particular light to a car doesn't mean that what you are actually doing is not in breach of another section of that same act/regulation or even another peice of legislation all together.
The matter of neons is that you could actually be given a defect for having them fitted to your car if the officer deemed that they were in ANY WAY a danger to a pedestrian or other motorist. They wouldn't have to be turned on whilst driving either for this to be considered dangerous. Maybe they are located in a pedestrian impact zone or police believe that they are not fitted securely and may come off whilst driving. The general rule is that ANYTHING not fitted standard to a vehicle is probably open to being defected under the "not comply with standard" rule. Basically a blow off valve can be defected because there is no compliance for one under the vehicle standards regulations and guidelines. A neon light fitted to a car definately does not comply with any standards for vehicle's within Australia. And these standards are a National Compliance deal so it doesn't matter what state you are in. The cop is not going to be wrong in this situation for giving you a pill, even though you have it in writing that a car can have other lights fitted.
The real issue is that people seem to be hunting for something in writing to JUSTIFY what they are doing. If you're looking that hard, you will find something that makes you think you're in the right, and no doubt miss the things that screw it up for you. Just remember that legislation is never written to make it easy for the general public to just look up a rule and know what the go is... In reality its just not that simple.
Cops are human, that's for sure and from time to time even the most experienced one's who really know their Sh*t stuff up, for the above reasons I'm sure. The real drama for me is the ones who go out of their way to ruin people's days and make my job all that much harder. Most of the stuff above, I personally wouldn't really waste my time with. I'd probably just rib you about the neons and try and embarrass you in front of your sixteen year old girlfriend (Just kidding, and not directed at anyone in particular... Just everyone that has neons HAHA).
Matrix, I know you weren't making a deal about having neons or anything and your post is mostly supportive of police (I think), but the point just needs to be made that some of the guys/gals on the forum seem to think that they can just pull out a peice of paper and show it to the police and think they will get off.
Really, all that does is give the officer the heads up that he needs to make sure he uses the exact offence, or a different one which attacks the same issue from a different stand point.
Just remember that a little knowledge is much more dangerous than a lot...
Depending on who you are of course!
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The fact still remains, if you doing things as per ADR compliances then it can never be illegal. Ive seen people take things they have been defected for to court, it was all covered under compliances and the police have been seen with egg on their face so to speak.
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31-12-2005, 09:16 AM
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Ride: VT2 Acclaim
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 174
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i guess the only thing to do in the end is challenge any fines or defect notices in court if you think you have a case.
__________________
Matrix
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31-12-2005, 01:08 PM
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Ride: 'Enhanced' Y Series Senator Sig
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Geelong
Posts: 5,656
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by shounak
Well, I simply find his veracity to be at best dubious.. He made a remark about neons being illegal, when in Victoria they are very much legal.. I'd know, I had them on and crashed into heaps of cops with them..
He condoned spinning tyres on gravel and some other illegal activities and backed it up with, just don't get caught.. He also outlined abuse of his police powers, speeding in a cop car, just because he enjoyed taking the speedo up..
By adopting a screen name of "Serving Police Member", he represents the Police force on the forum. Especially with a "Ask the copper" thread..
Now if he's giving legal advice, he'd better make damn sure that it's right before giving it.. The implications of incorrect advice given by someone can be serious for some people.. Especially, given his ostenisble authority..
I much prefer the comments of the older member Pacey and Ludacris now..
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Well said, i thinkt he closest thing this guy got to be ing a copper was buying the LAPD showbag from the show 
As for the neons, i risked being banned to get my point across, cost me alot of rep points also simply because admins/mods are quick to back up a "so called police officer".
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31-12-2005, 06:52 PM
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NSWPF
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Ride: VE SS, VY SS, BF XR6T & TERRITORY
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: NSW
Posts: 366
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I say, good luck to you Minux..
I take it you have neons on your car and have been defected for them and, had the matter overturned at court... Could you please send me the Court File Reference number so I can look it up? Or even just the list number and the day and court that the matter was heard at...
I hope you took it to District court so it could be set as case law...
See ya all, have a safe New Years...
I've gotta go and play, out in the big bad world.
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31-12-2005, 08:52 PM
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Ride: N/A
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 182
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Just listening to the radio scanner, and the guys at base have told several of the local cops that the bush fire is heading there way, they are going house to house in an outlying rural area, warning people that a bush fire is approaching. Putting their lives at risk.
Kinda makes all the neons "are or aren't legal" argument a bit petty don't you think?
A bit of respect both ways is all that is required.
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31-12-2005, 09:10 PM
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The Kicking Horse
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Ride: VX Executive S2 + XF Panel Van Project
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Geelong, Vic
Posts: 2,533
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by helly
I say, good luck to you Minux..
I take it you have neons on your car and have been defected for them and, had the matter overturned at court... Could you please send me the Court File Reference number so I can look it up? Or even just the list number and the day and court that the matter was heard at...
I hope you took it to District court so it could be set as case law...
See ya all, have a safe New Years...
I've gotta go and play, out in the big bad world.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by shounak
I'm from Melbourne and I had neons fitted on my Commodore.. They were perfectly legal a few months ago, unless the legislation has changed, I can't see why they'd be illegal now..
I'd cruised through quite a few booze buses with neons and even been pulled over by coppers just because I had neons on.. They walked upto my car with a book, but I never once received anything about my neons..
Well once, when my neon was loose and you could see the globe. Even then, it was just a friendly warning..
Now about the legalities of neons.. Vicroads and Traffic coppers confirmed it was legal with my mechanic (who was refusing to give me a RWC until I proved to him that neons were legal)..
You're either spouting **** or legislation has changed.. One of the two..
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Proof that neons are legal?
__________________
Shounak
Always Right
My Ride
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