Ask the Copper II - modifications. under construction

[minux]

Originally Posted by camvyss

You have a full break down of ADR 83 Minux? It's not in my package and am interested to see how they test this 'drive by noise' figure.

Wont have any documents until i return to work next week, will be sure to scan and up them for you..

Someone said earlier about GPS and trucks, we have been testing a VDO system with accident management involved, gives us the results of acceleration heavy braking sudden steering changes etc.

I beleive for our fleet we are looking at a total of 600k outlay..scary stuff. Also if trucks doing over 100km/h its because they are using an electrical over ride, easy tof ind when using gps or seeing first hand engine downloads(detroit cat and cummins have some great software), funny seeing drivers doing 100 km/h in top gear at 2300 rpm....something just isnt right

[PEAKN6]

as im only 15 i dont know much about fines n defects n crap like that but just wondering if ihad my undercar neon on then what would happen if i got cought? (im in sa by the way)defect or fine or both. and as i love blue lights my car is loaded wif em just wonderin what can the coppas do if i have my underdash neons on? coz the way i see it is that if my underdash neon destracts my vision then so does the lights in me dash and cd playa.

[Peanuts Inc.]

in car neons are less likely to attract the coppers attention but undercar neons in SA is a big no no if your car is moving.....it doesnt matter if the actual light is hidden out of view they will ping you for having them on whilst driving, but they are fine when your car is stationary

[Insanesinner]

Originally Posted by tukrbox

as im only 15 i dont know much about fines n defects n crap like that but just wondering if ihad my undercar neon on then what would happen if i got cought? (im in sa by the way)defect or fine or both. and as i love blue lights my car is loaded wif em just wonderin what can the coppas do if i have my underdash neons on? coz the way i see it is that if my underdash neon destracts my vision then so does the lights in me dash and cd playa.

Can u get your licence at 15 down there ?

[PEAKN6]

nah, im about 6 days away from 16 so im ready for me L's but not tha fines and defects

[Fekason]

Originally Posted by helly

THIS IS LONG ***READ AT YOUR OWN RISK*

The problem is Matrix, that lots of people do that, and it gets them in trouble...

It's been mentioned before that some people on this forum think that just because they have done a search in one peice of legislation and found what they beleive to be a justification for what ever they are doing, that they are in the right. And these people will stick to their guns no matter how much you tell them they may be wrong, because they think they have it in writing so its all good...

The problem is that a lot of the time there is more than one peice of legislation that covers any particular issue. For instance the issue of neons is a debarcle. Just because you find one section within a peice of legislation that says you may fit a particular light to a car doesn't mean that what you are actually doing is not in breach of another section of that same act/regulation or even another peice of legislation all together.

The matter of neons is that you could actually be given a defect for having them fitted to your car if the officer deemed that they were in ANY WAY a danger to a pedestrian or other motorist. They wouldn't have to be turned on whilst driving either for this to be considered dangerous. Maybe they are located in a pedestrian impact zone or police believe that they are not fitted securely and may come off whilst driving. The general rule is that ANYTHING not fitted standard to a vehicle is probably open to being defected under the "not comply with standard" rule. Basically a blow off valve can be defected because there is no compliance for one under the vehicle standards regulations and guidelines. A neon light fitted to a car definately does not comply with any standards for vehicle's within Australia. And these standards are a National Compliance deal so it doesn't matter what state you are in. The cop is not going to be wrong in this situation for giving you a pill, even though you have it in writing that a car can have other lights fitted.

The real issue is that people seem to be hunting for something in writing to JUSTIFY what they are doing. If you're looking that hard, you will find something that makes you think you're in the right, and no doubt miss the things that screw it up for you. Just remember that legislation is never written to make it easy for the general public to just look up a rule and know what the go is... In reality its just not that simple.

Cops are human, that's for sure and from time to time even the most experienced one's who really know their Sh*t stuff up, for the above reasons I'm sure. The real drama for me is the ones who go out of their way to ruin people's days and make my job all that much harder. Most of the stuff above, I personally wouldn't really waste my time with. I'd probably just rib you about the neons and try and embarrass you in front of your sixteen year old girlfriend (Just kidding, and not directed at anyone in particular... Just everyone that has neons HAHA).

Matrix, I know you weren't making a deal about having neons or anything and your post is mostly supportive of police (I think), but the point just needs to be made that some of the guys/gals on the forum seem to think that they can just pull out a peice of paper and show it to the police and think they will get off.

Really, all that does is give the officer the heads up that he needs to make sure he uses the exact offence, or a different one which attacks the same issue from a different stand point.

Just remember that a little knowledge is much more dangerous than a lot...
Depending on who you are of course!

This has been an interesting read.

My experience in aviation has been that a little knowledge can be more dangerous than none. Knowledge is step 1, as a means to develop understanding. With understanding, we can then develop wisdom in how to use the knowledge in a positive (read safe) way.

I have the utmost respect for the police force in general. Their job is necessary, and I certainly haven't put my hand up to do it. They deserve our full support, and IMHO we should be slow to criticise their human weaknesses.

On the subject of police acting on reports, I once reported a driver and he was charged on the basis of my report. In court, I was accepted as an expert witness, and even though it was my word against his, he was found guilty. I am not aware of the final outcome, but he was remanded for a pre-sentence report, which I understand is not a good position to be in.

Now what this individual was doing was dangerous (especially running into my parked car and then fleeing the scene) and he had previous history. But if you do the crime, don't whinge about doing the time, even if the police don't personally catch you in the act. Of course if absolutely innocent, be cheesed off, but might you have got away with it at some time before anyhow?

Let's give the police a fair chance. Give them the benefit of the doubt where ever possible. After all, that is what we want, isn't it?

[holden#1]

have you ever defected a harley for being too loud?
i swear that 80% of them are above the noise levl permitted. especially under acceleration.

[Wombat]

Don't even bother asking Holden#1....ain't never happened, will never happen, I would bet anywhere in Australia.

Try putting a loud exhaust on your Commodore though, and see how much of a ****storm descends from on high....

Parking on footpaths outside pubs in another bugbear of mine...here in Bundy right in the center of town, there are usually at least one, sometimes up to three or four Hawgs parked on the footpath outside a popular pub.
I bet if I did that with my BMW it'd have a ticket on it or be taken away in seconds...

Police can't keep using the tired old excuse of "it's not worth the trouble" too...it might sound like a cliche, but we the public pay your wages...we expect you to uphold the law equally and without fear or favour. That means we want you to start sticking defect notices on every bloody Harley you see which is fitted with straight-through "shotgun" shorty pipes without any exhaust muffling whatsoever, the same as you would do to a Commodore with a straight-thru system and no mufflers or cat converters. Harleys are covered by design rules like every other damn road vehicle in Australia, so make them abide by the rules like everyone else has to!!!

Ahh...that's better....

[holden#1]

o.k maybe we should start a vigilante excercise, 'operation noisy hawgs stop'...
we could purchase some decibel meters etc etc...lol

while were on this vigilante stuff, whats the go with arresting a copper??
I read somewhere you can do a citizens arrest(?)
what does this entail? I would imagine you would be taking a lot on yourself etc. you would want to have you're facts straight...

[Wombat]

Mate, you don't need anything as fancy as a decibel meter...

Most Harleys I have seen have one of two types of system fitted as aftermarket. First is the ones that look to outward appearances to have two "mufflers", but are in fact shorty duals...there ain't no restriction inside them pipes, or very very little of it. Certainly no baffles as such, merely the sort of cut aways you see when you look up the guts of an old "hotdog" muffler.
Second is the commonest amongst the "bad boys". Straight through shotgun pipes, of anything up to two inches diameter. They are simply a straight piece of pipe...no muffler, no baffles, no nothing inside them. They are what produces the familiar ear-shattering crackle and roar when one blatts past you.

You don't need any equipment to tell you that removing completely the mufflers from any road vehicle is against design regulations, and should bring a hefty fine from the EPA and a probably immediate "get this thing off the road until it's fixed" defect notice. On a bike it is even easier to see exactly what has been done...it's all hanging out in the breeze for all to see.

So how about it officers?

[Just_Ice]

Originally Posted by Wombat

Don't even bother asking Holden#1....ain't never happened, will never happen, I would bet anywhere in Australia.


it might sound like a cliche, but we the public pay your wages...

Can I have a pay rise..............

Do you people actually forget that we pay tax aswell........ Your tax you pay goes straight to the unemployed and thoses who choose not to work... It also goes to alot of other things.........

I have been around on many occassion when bikes have been defected....... Also had a mate(copper) king hit and knocked out by bikies, all in brawl on the median strip with about 20 coppers and 30 bikies.. This was a couple of years back...........

Still can't get over your " I pay your wages" I love it when people say that to me, especially when they don't work.......

[holden#1]

Originally Posted by Wombat

Mate, you don't need anything as fancy as a decibel meter...

Most Harleys I have seen have one of two types of system fitted as aftermarket. First is the ones that look to outward appearances to have two "mufflers", but are in fact shorty duals...there ain't no restriction inside them pipes, or very very little of it. Certainly no baffles as such, merely the sort of cut aways you see when you look up the guts of an old "hotdog" muffler.
Second is the commonest amongst the "bad boys". Straight through shotgun pipes, of anything up to two inches diameter. They are simply a straight piece of pipe...no muffler, no baffles, no nothing inside them. They are what produces the familiar ear-shattering crackle and roar when one blatts past you.

You don't need any equipment to tell you that removing completely the mufflers from any road vehicle is against design regulations, and should bring a hefty fine from the EPA and a probably immediate "get this thing off the road until it's fixed" defect notice. On a bike it is even easier to see exactly what has been done...it's all hanging out in the breeze for all to see.

So how about it officers?

this is turning out to be a very interesting post.
there may be a lot less harleys on the streets soon. they will all have catylytic converters & mufflers installed or something... maybe they'll have to start putting pegs on their spokes to generate more noise!