304 injected.....questions

VL Berlina 5speed · #1 19-11-2006, 05:29 PM

304 injected motors,

i am wanting to put one in my car in the near future but was unsure to which model would i take one out off, vn or a vs or any models in between,

so my question are,
is there any year 304i i should steer clear of and common faults that one year had which was fixed in the next years model?

what were some changes that were made to each motor over the years to increase the power out put? eg computer, cam(for hsv) or what ever....

is there any major changes in the manual gear boxes over the years? like type/brand and strength of some?

ruff pricing for a 304 and manual trans you would expect to pay, and the year/model its out off.

and one last question with the nose of the vl beening built lower the rb30 is common for getting air blocks in the cooling system when not bleed correct in turn causing the head to crack, would the lower radiator and cooling system cause any simular problems to a 304?

alot of questions i know but i am really for doing this, the turbo vl is to common and im not really wanting to do it, when my head cracked last time it sounded like a v8 and that has caused me to want to do a v8 convesion insted of a turbo, just sounded so tuff and nice and the other facts like torque, no lag etc

white vn ss · #2 19-11-2006, 08:49 PM

best 304 to buy would be vr vs. vn vp vq are ok but still were the first few injected 304s so not the best built. vt were the worst 304 built because of all the emission laws that came in. vt 304 is very restricted.

1991_Vn2nV · #3 20-11-2006, 09:35 AM

VN
VP
VR
VS S1

^^^All the same 5L, all 165kw @4400rpm and 385NM @3600rpm of torque.

VS S2: 168kw @4400rpm and 395NM @3600rpm

VT S1: 179kw @ 4800rpm and 400NM @3600rpm

After that it went to the Gen III... The VT was not very restricted...

Keep in mind, the VT was not that bigger jump in performance. Most of that extra power between the VT and VS S2 is in fact because of a low restriction DUAL exhaust (rather than single) and also a slight rise in compression. It went from 8:4 CR for the VN to VS to 8:8 for CR for the VT.

So overall, its all a much of a muchness. Just get the best condition efi 5L you can, regardless of model. Focus on low km's and engine condition rather than which model its out of.

VL Berlina 5speed · #4 20-11-2006, 11:08 AM

cheers for that dylan,
that was the info i was wanting,

now does anyone know much about the 5spd gearboxes used? did they change from the T5 to the Getrag in the v8 range like with the 6's?

and most of all i am very intressted in knowing about the nose of the vl being lower would it cause problems to the engine like the rb30?

1991_Vn2nV · #5 20-11-2006, 11:40 AM

Hmm theres a few VL's goin around with Gen III transplants that havent had any issues I dont think.

One of the installers at JB Hi Fi Modbury has a VL with the 5.7 Gen III, and so does my mates cousin... So I'll check with my mate and see if he had any issues.

As for Transmissions:

VN = Borg Warner T5
VP = Borg Warner T5
VR = Borg Warner T5
VS S1 and S2 = Borg Warner T5
VT = Getrag

There was also a 'Series 3' VS 5L...which was the exact same as the VT 5L...this is only in regards to the Statesman etc... Not the Sedan I think. But that used the Getrag 5 speed as well. So it was only the 179kw 5L that got the Getrag transmission.

AirStrike · #6 20-11-2006, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1991_Vn2nV

VN
VP
VR
VS S1

^^^All the same 5L, all 165kw @4400rpm and 385NM @3600rpm of torque.

VS S2: 168kw @4400rpm and 395NM @3600rpm

VT S1: 179kw @ 4800rpm and 400NM @3600rpm

After that it went to the Gen III... The VT was not very restricted...

Keep in mind, the VT was not that bigger jump in performance. Most of that extra power between the VT and VS S2 is in fact because of a low restriction DUAL exhaust (rather than single) and also a slight rise in compression. It went from 8:4 CR for the VN to VS to 8:8 for CR for the VT.

So overall, its all a much of a muchness. Just get the best condition efi 5L you can, regardless of model. Focus on low km's and engine condition rather than which model its out of.

Theres quite a difference in all the blocks. First of all the VR/VS blocks are cast clearnaced from factory to accept the 350 stroker cranks as used in the GTS/Senator 215i's, the VN/VP blocks are not. So if your going a stroker in the future and use a VR/VS block its one less thing that needs machining.
The VT block also made more power due to the fact that it ran a true roller setup, in that it has a roller cam, lifters and rockers (not just roller tipped). Also the sequential injection setup helps not only with power, but also tunabillity and fuel economy.
Setup wise the VN/VP would be the easiest ECU wise in that they never ran an electronic auto and both the auto and manaul memcals are basically the same.
Im currently trying to find a VT short motor (which has been quite difficult) but there are a few crate motors still around (always a few on ebay) that would be perfect for you.
Personally you cant go wrong with the VT block. Clearanced for the stroker crank, roller everything means you can run a much steeper ramp profile on the cam lobes and still retain a lot of streetability compared to a hydraulic.
AirStrike

AirStrike · #7 20-11-2006, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1991_Vn2nV

Hmm theres a few VL's goin around with Gen III transplants that havent had any issues I dont think.

One of the installers at JB Hi Fi Modbury has a VL with the 5.7 Gen III, and so does my mates cousin... So I'll check with my mate and see if he had any issues.

As for Transmissions:

VN = Borg Warner T5 Correct
VP = Borg Warner T5 Correct
VR = Borg Warner T5 Correct
VS S1 and S2 = Borg Warner T5 Correct
VS SIII = Getrag (no use mentioning SIII stato as they only came with the auto, but the ute came in a manual, Infusion has one)
VT = Getrag Correct

There was also a 'Series 3' VS 5L...which was the exact same as the VT 5L...this is only in regards to the Statesman etc... Not the Sedan I think. But that used the Getrag 5 speed as well. So it was only the 179kw 5L that got the Getrag transmission.

AirStrike

1991_Vn2nV · #8 20-11-2006, 07:30 PM

haha thanks for clearing that up Airstrike

You learn something new everyday

Peanuts Inc. · #9 20-11-2006, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirStrike

Theres quite a difference in all the blocks. First of all the VR/VS blocks are cast clearnaced from factory to accept the 350 stroker cranks as used in the GTS/Senator 215i's, the VN/VP blocks are not. So if your going a stroker in the future and use a VR/VS block its one less thing that needs machining.
AirStrike

the first VN blocks can accept a 383 stroker without machining as it doesnt have the chamfer at the bottom of the cylinder. Thats what i was shown when i was gettin my block machined when i rebuilt it.

AirStrike · #10 20-11-2006, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peanuts Inc.

the first VN blocks can accept a 383 stroker without machining as it doesnt have the chamfer at the bottom of the cylinder. Thats what i was shown when i was gettin my block machined when i rebuilt it.

I'd like to see that!! Even if the crank will fit there is no chance of the rod big end clearing.
AirStrike

Peanuts Inc. · #11 20-11-2006, 09:13 PM

thats just what i was told by the engine reconditioners, could of been a different crank/rod/piston combination to make it fit but they said it fits

Ls2_307 · #12 20-11-2006, 09:21 PM

just a quick stupid question i have always wondered....

i know holden motors v8's always used to be a 5.0l (308) and still made 308's right up until the VL series (i think). However they introduded the 4.9l (304) in '85 to race in the under 5l category in Group A. Now ive always thought that the VN-VT efi v8's where always 304ci as i know the VL grp A walky and the VN SS group A were homogulated (big word, proberbly is wrong) to run in grp A as well, hense i assumed that since then holden v8's have always been a 304 (until the ls1 of course). Can someone clarify this for me?