Cut an polish... should I?

[MikesVT]

My paintwork has seen better days...

It has swirl marks all over the place, its got tiny scratches (not deep) and stubborn bird crap marks that wont come off!!

I dont really wanna give it a cut and polish... but would it be doing it more good if I did?

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

That is what the clear coat is designed for, to protect the actual colour. A cut and polish rather than a T cut will do it wonders. Doing it by hand is harder work but it gives you a better finish, a buffer will leave swirl marks too.

[DannyboyDS]

I have to agree 100%, infact I want to anyway :P

T-Cutters is fairly harsh and I dont reccomend it for ANY clear finish.

I use Paint doctor or Doctor paint, cant remember which way around :P

Just get a cutting compound that states it is safe to use a clear finish.

Follow its directions, "wax on, Wax off"

Then of course the same with a Polish, you can get this great mesh cloth polish buffer rag from auto stores too, I do ALL my cutting and ALL my polishing by hand, I used to use a buffer but had a bad experience when the pad kept hitting the black trim and leaving polish on it (Damn near impossible to get it off sometimes) and it grabbed my non electric arial on my old car and almost snapped it at the base.

A cut and polish can make your car look a million bucks for up to 6 months, and if you CBF doing it yourself, hunt around and get someone to do it for you, you can geta good price sometimes around the $100 mark.

[MikesVT]

Around 100 would be awesome... I seen some car placees doin it for about 160-180... but thats a bit rich...

I hardly have the time/space to do it myself so... we'll see... but thanks for the advice so far guys!

My paintwork definately needs some kind of sprucing up though...

(Damn bird crap....)

[1vngal]

Around 100 would be awesome... I seen some car placees doin it for about 160-180... but thats a bit rich...

I hardly have the time/space to do it myself so... we'll see... but thanks for the advice so far guys!

My paintwork definately needs some kind of sprucing up though...

(Damn bird crap....)

If you decide to do yours, I'll bring Ruby round and you can do her as well...

[VLDavo]

i use meguirs medium cut and polisher for mine seams to be the best ive used for my paint work.... but its designed to work with a rotary buffer so it doesnt really leave swirl marks when i use it

[Scooter79]

That is what the clear coat is designed for, to protect the actual colour. Doing it by hand is harder work but it gives you a better finish, a buffer will leave swirl marks too.

Very true. The clear coat protects the problem of colour fading but at the same time you need to protect the clear coat itself. Clear coats are very suseptable to fine scratches and swirls that you can't feel but definately see. Especially on dark colours! Usually this is caused by bad washing techniques. Never use those cheap $2 sponges on the paint, only deep pile wash mits, don't wash in a circular motion, and never ever use those brushes at the self serve car washes.

Like most people I used to detail by hand but when I first got my orbital I never looked back. Theres two main types of machine buffers. Rotary's which look like angle grinders (never use an actual angle grinder) and Orbitals. Orbitals are fool proof because they don't spin in a circular motion. Instead they rotate on an orbital axis and it is almost impossible to burn and damage the paint. As well as the machine you also need good quality buffing pads. My tools of choice are the GMC ROS150M orbital and Lake Country or Wolfgang polishing pads (same pads just different name). It is physically near impossible to get the same quality finish by hand compared to a machine.

Around 100 would be awesome... I seen some car placees doin it for about 160-180... but thats a bit rich...

Don't expect too much for $100. $100 will get you a polish and wax. $160 - $180 will get you paint defect removal which is what you need. There is quite a bit of manual labour involved in a full detail too. I did a full detail on my wifes '91 laser a month ago. Stated at 8am and finished at 4pm. By the end the paint was back to complete showroom condition. Check out the reflections in this paint... You don't often see these sort of reflections in white cars.






Just to prove the power of machine buffing, check out these before and after pics of my own car... This turned into a two day weekend job.

The Bonnet. There was some pretty bad swirls in the paint



...And after!!! There is no way I could have achieved these results by hand

i use meguirs medium cut and polisher for mine seams to be the best ive used for my paint work.... but its designed to work with a rotary buffer so it doesnt really leave swirl marks when i use it

Rotary polishers in an amateurs hands can be dangerous. You run the risk of burning the paint and more commonly the risk of adding fine swirls and micro marring. The type of thing you are trying to eliminate.

If you have the funds and time I recommend getting the right gear and giving it a go for yourself. If you plan on keeping your car looking great all the time it will be money well spent. If not, then pay good money to get it done professionally. Don't be a tight a%$# and expect showroom results. Once it's done for you buy a good wash mit and car wash and a top of the line wax or paint sealant and you won't need to visit a detailer again for hopefully a few years.

If anyone is curious about the process I took to do the calais then you can read about it and see more photos here... Panther Mica VS Supercharged 6

[R0d]

[QUOTE=Scooter79;574163]


The Bonnet. There was some pretty bad swirls in the paint



...And after!!! There is no way I could have achieved these results by hand




QUOTE]

woooo shiny

[Bent_6]

Awesome job mate!

May i just add that using a serious cut can sometimes be the wrong choice especially if the car has been cut many times before.

[satos]

Thanks for that info.The bonnet came up a treat.
Just a question for you,after polishing with the orbital do you apply the wax also with the orbital or by hand.
cheers.

[Scooter79]

Awesome job mate!

May i just add that using a serious cut can sometimes be the wrong choice especially if the car has been cut many times before.

Thats very true too. I kind of cringe a little when people talk about a 'cut' because there are so many products on the market and so so many differing levels of cutting ability. Take a look at Meguiars (#9) Swirl remover 2.0. It is one of the lightest cutting compounds available off the shelf and contains lots of polishing oils and and fillers to fill in the swirl marks. A very safe product for applying once every couple of months if needed. On the other hand you have something like Meguiars (#83) 'Dual action cleaner polish' that is designed to remove medium swirls and contain small abrasives that break down the longer you work in into the paint. As a general rule, start by using the least aggressive product required to get the job done.

[Scooter79]

Thanks for that info.The bonnet came up a treat.
Just a question for you,after polishing with the orbital do you apply the wax also with the orbital or by hand.
cheers.

I applied by hand but in the future I'll be doing it with the orbital and a finishing pad. The orbital gives a much more even cover and you can really work it in for longer.

[leon archer]

hey dude im a detailer and a cut and polish is good 4 ya car once a year use a buffer with frecklars cutting compound then use a buff polish pad and use rejuvinator and for the black rubbers put masking tapearound them so u dont get cutters on them cause its hard to get it off but u can get it off with a bit of elbow grease then wash the car to remove all the cutters left on the car after you dry the car (make suer u dry it all over) then give it a hand polish make sure there is no silicon in the polish it will come up good trust me im a detailer

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

Camera angle magic......take the photo with the sun in the same position and you will see swirls and imperfections in the paint. Good job though, it is definately an improvement.

[Scooter79]

Camera angle magic......take the photo with the sun in the same position and you will see swirls and imperfections in the paint. Good job though, it is definately an improvement.

Yeah I know. By the time I finished and took the photos is was overcast and about to rain. I've looked since in full sunlight and the swirls are 95% gone.

[satos]

I applied by hand but in the future I'll be doing it with the orbital and a finishing pad. The orbital gives a much more even cover and you can really work it in for longer.

Cheers mate.

[14secvp]

I do all mine by hand takes about two hours to do a commodore you shouldnt get any swirls unless your polishing cloth gets dirty as the particles of dirt do the scratching.Wash it good before polishing.

[Scooter79]

I do all mine by hand takes about two hours to do a commodore you shouldnt get any swirls unless your polishing cloth gets dirty as the particles of dirt do the scratching.Wash it good before polishing.

Most swirls are caused by general every day washing. Those cheap $2 sponges are the worst for causing it and it doesn't help when you wash with the same bucket of water you use to rinse your dirty sponge.

It's also a good idea to have a separate cleaner/polish to remove or 'cut' the swirls and scratches, then follow with a good quality 'pure' polish to create a deeper and glossy shine. By 'pure' polish I mean one that contains no abrassives. Don't forget to finish with a wax or sealant otherwise all your good work with polishing will go to waste once it rains.

[Driven By Shine]

Hi Guys Im new here but thought id ad my 2c worth.

A "cut n' polish" as you call it would improve the look of 95% of cars on the road. The trick is getting the right person to do it. Buffing a car will not leave swirls, holograms, buff marks or whatever you want to call them IF ITS DONE RIGHT. Unfortunatly there are so many people offering quick cut n polish jobs that its almost become exceptable to have a few buff marks. (this is caused by either wrong product choice or wrong technique or both)

You will get what you pay for. $100 = not much
Normally a decent cut then a sealent with heaps of fillers, itll look great when you pick it up then after a few washes the oils get washed out and itll look like it did before......maybe worse

I spend on average around 10 hrs just on the buff for proper paint correction and thats for small cars.

If you are on a budget the best thing you can do is fill/hide the scratches that concern you till you can justify going further. Try Megs NXT tech wax, its easy to use and will hide a fair bit.

Chris

[Scooter79]

You will get what you pay for. $100 = not much
Normally a decent cut then a sealent with heaps of fillers, itll look great when you pick it up then after a few washes the oils get washed out and itll look like it did before......maybe worse

I spend on average around 10 hrs just on the buff for proper paint correction and thats for small cars.

Chris! Welcome to JC. I appreciate and respect your input in the 'D.P' forum. When people ask me how long I took on my own car and I tell then it was over two days they really don't understand and I usually get the strangest looks. That usually explains why their cars have lots of swirls, hazing and water marks and such.

Just a general question for you... When you do paint correction do you prefer to use compounds that have minimal or no fillers in them, or do you use products with more oils and fillers as each step becomes less abrassive? As listed on the DP forum the process for my own car was wash, clay, Megs #80 (which has some oils and fillers), Megs #9 (a very light cut with lots and lots of fillers), then DC polish and a polymer sealant. Since I did the car I've washed it a few times plus there has been endless rain and it doesn't seem to have 'washed out'. Do you think it would be better to use a cutting compound with minimal or no fillers? All my efforts so far have been with a GMC orbital and various Wolfgang pads (Lake Country) pads.

On another note, last week I was in a well know Sydney car dealer looking at utes and I could clearly see where the detailers had been with the rotary. There was massive amounts of marring caused by the detailers, particularly noticable on the black ones. I think some of these in house guys could learn a thing or two here.

[Reaper]

Around 100 would be awesome... I seen some car placees doin it for about 160-180... but thats a bit rich...

What you are paying for here is time. I would be looking at the quality of their work first and then asking the price afterwards and most definitely be happy to pay even $200 for a top job rather than $100 for a quickee.

Reaper

[Driven By Shine]

Chris! Welcome to JC. I appreciate and respect your input in the 'D.P' forum. When people ask me how long I took on my own car and I tell then it was over two days they really don't understand and I usually get the strangest looks. That usually explains why their cars have lots of swirls, hazing and water marks and such.

Just a general question for you... When you do paint correction do you prefer to use compounds that have minimal or no fillers in them, or do you use products with more oils and fillers as each step becomes less abrassive? As listed on the DP forum the process for my own car was wash, clay, Megs #80 (which has some oils and fillers), Megs #9 (a very light cut with lots and lots of fillers), then DC polish and a polymer sealant. Since I did the car I've washed it a few times plus there has been endless rain and it doesn't seem to have 'washed out'. Do you think it would be better to use a cutting compound with minimal or no fillers? All my efforts so far have been with a GMC orbital and various Wolfgang pads (Lake Country) pads.

On another note, last week I was in a well know Sydney car dealer looking at utes and I could clearly see where the detailers had been with the rotary. There was massive amounts of marring caused by the detailers, particularly noticable on the black ones. I think some of these in house guys could learn a thing or two here.

Firstly Scooter thanks for the positive comments, I try to use products that do not contain any fillers and therefor use the Menzerna range 90% of the time if the swirls are falling off so to speak Ill check with a prepsol wipe to see if there is anything thats been filled, if so Ill go again then again till its where I want it.

I cant imagine why anyone would spend hours and hours with products that fill when for the same effort (possibly a little bit more effort ...okay a lot more effort)you can use products that actually cut and remove the defects for good. Products that fill are great for quick / cheap jobs but I try to stay away from these. If you are washing your car with the right wash then it should take some time before they wash out. But as far as my business is concerned imagine the look on a customers face if the car looked awesome after the job then next week they go to the local car lovers and use there powerful traffic grime removing car wash that cant determine the differnce between what was put there to hide swirls and the diesel truck I was stuck behind for an hour and then the sun comes out and it looks just like it did befor the job was done.......... Theyd be not happy. So I wont do it.....I leave that for all the others.

And yeah for some reason every car dealership detailer uses a rotary where in actual fact they arnt givin the time or the lighting to do it correctly and really should only be using RO machines.

Oh well they keep me in business, fixing all there mistakes. LOL

Chris

[Scooter79]

Firstly Scooter thanks for the positive comments, I try to use products that do not contain any fillers and therefor use the Menzerna range 90% of the time if the swirls are falling off so to speak Ill check with a prepsol wipe to see if there is anything thats been filled, if so Ill go again then again till its where I want it.

Chris, what's your opinion on the Meguiars range. Moreso the Professional 'Mirror Glaze' stuff. Which of their products have you tried. I really like the #80 speed glaze. Seems like a mix of abrassives and some fillers. #9 Swirl remover appears to be about 90% fillers. Can you offer any opinion on Pinnacle, Wolfgang or Poorboys?

[Driven By Shine]

Personally I dont use Megs at all, except for their woolen wash mits and there wool buffing pads.

as for the poorboys, pinnacle and wolfgang products all 3 brands are great but they do have certain standout performers, I like the Pinnacle XMT compounds (swirl removers) as they work in the sun as do the the poorboys SSR but the SSR range will dust as the XMT doesnt. Wolfgang Deep gloss sealent would have to be one of the easiest to use sealents followed closely by the Detailers Pride Premium Surface shield. its like everything though scooter what you like I may dislike and what I ike you may not. cause our techniques would no doubt be different and most importantly our cars and therfor the paint on them is different everything reacts differently.

If you like the Megs range and get good results keep on using it, its to dear to throw out, when it runs out the try the boutique stuff

Chris