Haltech E6gm-8

[OSL-060]

I'm trying to budget for a Haltech, mainly because I dont want to have to worry about management in the future or waste my money on a generic chip.
I can get my hands a on E6GM-8 for $800, that is brand new in the box with software, cables and instructions.

Will the 8 plug in exactly the same as the E6GM with it's very subtle injector control difference. The guy also claims that it's for a 5 Speed. Wouldnt all the Haltechs be universal?

Basically Im calling on your wisdom to tell me what you think of the ECU, whether I can just plug it in and how tuneable they really are. I know what Haltech 'claims' but Im interested from the consumers point of veiw. Im have a million and one question's about tuning them and whether workshop's mind the software. I have heard the hitman is quite a guru, but being in NSW he's no help to me in QLD. I also need to know if I can obtain base maps to get the stocko VN running with the Haltech.

Regards

Jake. OSL-060 (It really is slow)

[Locksmiff]

This thread, just to let ya's know, was started because I can't ramble to well one on one in PM, besides that, the length of the ramble is usually letter limited QUOTE (OSL060 @ Jan 6 2004, 08:17 PM)I'm trying to budget for a Haltech, mainly because I dont want to have to worry about management in the future or waste my money on a generic chip.
I can get my hands a on E6GM-8 for $800, that is brand new in the box with software, cables and instructions.Thats very good. I got my non 8 one for 700 from memory. I brought mine second hand, though it saw that little use before hand I believe, you could basically say it was brand new.
QUOTE (OSL060 @ Jan 6 2004, 08:17 PM)
Will the 8 plug in exactly the same as the E6GM with it's very subtle injector control difference. The guy also claims that it's for a 5 Speed. Wouldnt all the Haltechs be universal?
I have spokern to Haltech themselves on the phone. There chaterbility with tech help and other related stuff, was to my standard. I believe the V6 Vengence runs with an -8. I have their map, which works in mine . I believe it is nothing more then channels. If the channel is unneeded< its not used< like with a MSD Digital DIS 4 ignition module, it uses 3 of the channels, so the 4th is not used. I am thinking maybe this dude has on either seen it in a VS + or thinks that for some reason. I had convo's over the models with Haltech as 2 other dudes wanted some and their cars tuned. The E6GM (8 & non 8) are good up to a either a VR manual or VS manual. I think VS manual as the VR uses the EV6 motor, but I dont think it uses the same earlier auto, so it makes me think it includes VR's as well. Its due to the PCM controlling the electronicabilty of the auto, tha makes it a no goer other then a VS manual, and I would think that would include anything ecotec-manual. It uses a picky back system if you wish to use HAltech stuff on a auto.QUOTE (OSL060 @ Jan 6 2004, 08:17 PM)Basically Im calling on your wisdom to tell me what you think of the ECU, whether I can just plug it in and how tuneable they really are. I know what Haltech 'claims' but Im interested from the consumers point of veiw. Im have a million and one question's about tuning them and whether workshop's mind the software. I have heard the hitman is quite a guru, but being in NSW he's no help to me in QLD. I also need to know if I can obtain base maps to get the stocko VN running with the Haltech.
It's highly tunable if your mechanically minded, and can get passed the fact you use a puter to do what you used to do manually, plus you have the abiltiy to change whatever while driving, without havern to hang out of the car and do it like in the old days. though they did it stationary.

Bang for buck, I like, if I had the $$ I would go somthing like motec or autronic. I will scan a page from the Haltech manual to show you and better explain why I would choose the other 2 options, even though I dig the Haltech.

[OSL-060]

I've actually got the DOS software here, so it's quite easy to see the parameters of its capabilities. I'm a little worried how everything is in bars rather than numeric like other systems. Personally I wouldnt play with much anyway. Even the most mechanical minded person couldnt tune with the skill of a dyno operator or performance tuner. Very very few people 'backyard' tune their cars.

My basic questions have been answered so thanks, I think as far as bang for your buck goes the Haltech is quite a good ECU. Alot like the Link ECU without a handcontroller. The plug in setup and retaining factory sensors really makes life easier. I might just grab it seens as though its a good price. I didnt expect for a second that it would better or on par with a autronic/motec/microtech programmable ECU.

Thanks

Jake

[Locksmiff]

QUOTE (OSL060 @ Jan 6 2004, 10:42 PM)I'm a little worried how everything is in bars rather than numeric like other systems. Personally I wouldnt play with much anyway.I think, don't quote me, but you can change it to suit, as in bars or numbers. I could be wrong on that. It really isn't that hard, thats the daunting part, those sliders freak everyone so it seems.

The sliders are in lots of 16 I think, or 32 not sure without looking and counting, they are done in choices of 500 rpm lots or 1000 rpm lots, either way its 500 x 16 or 1000 x 16 ( for this eg lets say its 16). If you want fine tuning you use the 500 option, if ya think ya can get it all perfect with same amount of points spread over a greater area, then bully for you .

If you where to see one running, there is a red arrow that runs along the top of the bars. If it isnt as yuo wanted say fuel wise, say its bit lean, you increase the bar for that area. It takes a bit of time to do, but it isnt that hard at all. The same goes for ignition advance and retard and a poo load of other stuff.QUOTE (OSL060 @ Jan 6 2004, 10:42 PM)Even the most mechanical minded person couldnt tune with the skill of a dyno operator or performance tuner. Very very few people 'backyard' tune their cars.
The dyno can be provided at 6 am in the morning on a freeway at 110 km's per hour , or loaded up with a hand brake on going up a hill.....or you could drive to Sydney and back .

[OSL-060]

QUOTE The dyno can be provided at 6 am in the morning on a freeway at 110 km's per hour# , or loaded up with a hand brake on going up a hill.....or you could drive to Sydney and bac

haha cuz, I tort ah saw ya on TV, u wer on da bush mechanics documentry bra.

Thanks for all your info, it's all gold to me Bushy..I mean Locky

*Edit* I hope your right about numeric or bar graph choice. That would be great. When I get it you can go walkabout and help me play. There's a 24 hour servo near by so we'll be right for drinks.

Cheers

Jake.

[Locksmiff]

those x are surposed to be devide by's I just noticed oops. The only thing really the others have over the Haltech is the amount the 500 rpm lots or 1000 if they have them, are devided by, the dearer ones are around 256 devide by unlike the haltech which is 16 or 32. I no Kalmaker is 256 tuning points across the ranges. I assuming sorry that the autronics and motecs would be the same, they would bloody wanna be for 2000 +.

It's a juggling act, if you were able to see what ya gotta do for idle. It reminds me of juggling. I would want the more tuning points for the extra juggerbilty you would get for tuning idle. The TPS etc doesnt always play nice with a stage 3 cam, so it then becomes a juggle contest, of leaning the fuel off just before ya desired idle point, then just as the red arrow moves down to stall, you have to slowly acorss a few bars, raise the fuel, and ya gotta try and do it over the least amount of bars, because you only have 16, without it doing hunt for idle crap, which you wouldnt get with 256 juggling points

[OSL-060]

Dont put me off

Because what your effectively saying is that a workshop with Kalmaker software can remap using the 256/. I remember reading something on the Haltech site about it being more tuneable than what can be achieved with remapping

Am I confused or am I right?

I want it because it's affordable, but I also dont want it to play find the idle once I rebuild and fit a wild cam.

Jake.

[Locksmiff]

QUOTE (OSL060 @ Jan 6 2004, 11:49 PM) Dont put me off

Because what your effectively saying is that a workshop with Kalmaker software can remap using the 256/. I remember reading something on the Haltech site about it being more tuneable than what can be achieved with remapping

Am I confused or am I right?

I want it because it's affordable, but I also dont want it to play find the idle once I rebuild and fit a wild cam.

Jake.
Haltech its points are for the 16 eg: @ every 31.25rpm's

Kalmakers points are @ every 1.953125 rpm's

I used the 500 choice, which also on the Haltech limits your max RPM you can tune to which is 16000 rpm in the 1000 mode. I was using the 501 to 1000 for tuning my idle so you tapered the bars off as you were coming down in RPM anyway, so by the time your around 700-900 you had a few bars to play with either side of the desired mark. I think I aimed for 850.

It isn't the best thing to buy if your not interested in fiddling with it later plus also doing the tuning yourself with a base map, which it does, plus the hitman have downloadable maps as well, which also starts the car, I have tried theirs . It has a screwed idle which is obvious with a stage 3 cam.

If your not ever gonna touch it yourself I would spend that 800 on getting it Kalmaker tuned or if ya interested in both, I would buy the needed stuff which is around 1500 $$. I don't know how viable it becomes if your not interested in doing it from scratch yaself like the Haltech, which also you don't have too, their are tuners out there.

[OSL-060]

I know that once I have it, I'll play around with it, who wouldn't when the software is so straight forward. I also understand exactly what your saying with the amount of load points etc. My worry is exactly that, a more tuneable ECU will be more cost and time effective in the long run, without myself or a tuner having to spend hours getting it all right.

To me remapping is pointless when you want to play around with different set-ups, unless you have deep pockets a remap after every change will cost a fortune.

A guy from ozperformance is a Autronic rep, I might see what he has to say.

Thanks again for the helpful advice

Jake.

[jules]

i've spent a bit of time looking at how ECMs work, and i have a question for you haltech guys...

in a normal ECM basically it operates by monitoring the lambda sensor, learning the engine characteristics of the engine and timing the injector pulse to maintain a stoiciometric 14.7:1 air-fuel ratio (richer when power is needed and sometimes leaner when economy is needed).

theoretically you can tune your engine, leave the factory ECM in there and it will re-tune itself for you automatically. where this falls down is when you need more fuel than the injectors will flow, and that the computer will allow them to flow before it decides there's a malfunction.

so how does a haltech work? what do you actually map? is it an open loop system where you say exactly how much fuel goes in at each RPM, becuase if it still monitors the lambda sensor, i don't understand what the user maps.

[Locksmiff]

I havernt forgotten your question jules. I have to work the answer out properly . I have both manuals. It basic form, they are the same, they both offer open and closed loop. I will put both manuals side by side and and workout how to better explain it.

[jules]

i look forward to a reply

i spend a bit of time reading about how my ECM manages the engine. it's only a VN so it's simpler than modern ones, but you can really learn a lot about fault diagnosis by understanding what sensors control what.

[OSL-060]

Open loop: ECU looks at AFM/MAP signal to get airflow then determines fuel flow from a look-up table of fixed values. And is often used at wide to fully open throttle.

Closed loop: ECU looks at AFM AND O2 sensor signals, based on both of those adjusts fuel flow so that O2 sensor signal matches a target value. Is used at low throttle and underload.

Basically from what I think I know open loop is supplying fuel to the engine based on what the air/fuel ratio should be and adjusting to suit, closed loop is supplying fuel based on what the a/f ratio actually is. To make things even more confusing the AFM/MAP signal is still being used in closed loop, as it is the primary load sensor.

An aftermarket ECU is basically allowing you to adjust ignition timing, fuel delivery, injector firing etc in both open and closed loop mode.

I also had these two little bits in a file that relate-

The majority of programmable management systems use a Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor to detect manifold vacuum (or vacuum and boost). Together with engine rpm and intake air temp, the ECU uses this signal to work out engine load.

All unleaded petrol cars use an exhaust gas oxygen sensor. As the name suggests, this sensor is mounted in the exhaust flow - usually in the exhaust manifold - and sniffs the composition of the exhaust gas. Specifically, it measures the ratio of oxygen in the exhaust gas with that in the atmosphere. It does this is to determine whether the air/fuel ratio is rich, stoichiometric, or lean. The ECU uses this information as part of its self-learning technique.

That's my random bullsh!t we'll see what Locky comes up with.

Jake.