fuel types

[Ryan Mckd]

Hey, just wondering what the best fuels are to get for best mileage/performance, thanks.

[iRiot]

united boost 98 for me ethanol based fuel its good mate use it in there xr6t and vz twin turbo 5.7 ltr

[nicko]

BP 98 is great

[Emackulation]

united boost 98 for me ethanol based fuel its good mate use it in there xr6t and vz twin turbo 5.7 ltr

Ethanol also eats rubber lines in "older" cars.

[Ryan Mckd]

I've heard alot of people saying bp 98 is good, i got a 98 vt exexcutive commodore, would bp 98 be a good choice?

[nicko]

i have a 2000 VT 6. have been running BP 98 in it for about 15,000kms now. runs a treat and gets great milage, 10L per 100KMS

[Emackulation]

98 ron fuels have additives that actively clean your injectors, this is the best type of fuel to buy, eventhough its the most expensive its still the best. You will get a few more kays per tank on the good stuff, but every cars differs.

[CSP]

General consensus always seems to be BP Ultimate, Caltex Vortex98 (both 98RON fuels) are the most popular choices. Mobil's 98RON (8000 I think it is) is just BP Ultimate with additives and V-Power is sh*t!

98RON is actually cheaper the higher the price of fuel goes. It's also worth the few dollars difference

[Morton]

General consensus always seems to be BP Ultimate, Caltex Vortex98 (both 98RON fuels) are the most popular choices. Mobil's 98RON (8000 I think it is) is just BP Ultimate with additives and V-Power is sh*t!

98RON is actually cheaper the higher the price of fuel goes. It's also worth the few dollars difference

I'll second that. Tis very true. I'm a BP fanatic myself, and I've never had a bad batch like I have with Shell. I run a tight tune and no knock sensor, so BP 95 has to be 95 octane or above - and they've never let me down.

[iRiot]

Ethanol also eats rubber lines in "older" cars.

yes it does but we are talking about a vt where we are u don't get bp98 because its 1.70 a litre where ethanol is 1.42 litre

[1991_Vn2nV]

yes it does but we are talking about a vt where we are u don't get bp98 because its 1.70 a litre where ethanol is 1.42 litre

VT is still an older car. Ethanol is simply not suitable. If you don't give a **** about the car and want to save a few cents a litre thats your problem. If you do care about the vehicle, atleast just use standard unleaded.

[KRUPTD]

Where do you pay $1.70 a litre for premium fuel???Do you live in woop woop???I live in Griffith NSW wales and fuel is dearer out this way compared to Sydney prices,so you must live out far then to pay that much for premium,do you use your shopper docket???Also the price of fuel will always go up,even then you will still buy the fuel to put in your car to get around.But i can see why the price of oil went to an all time low of just over a hundred dollars a barell ($103 i think it was the other week) and never noticed the price of fuel to change here in Australia,isnt that funny.

[adamc11]

Today Tonight (i think, or maybe another show) compared lots of fuels.... caltex vortex 98 came out with the most mileage.
Also, what do people think of 100 RON fuel that shell have (well i think it is shell, i havn't seen it that often so not sure). I believe it is an ethonol blend. Is this ok to run in an ls1 engine or not? and is it worth it?

Thanks.

[KRUPTD]

Well if this 100 octane fuel is from shell,it would have to be labelled that ethanol is used in this fuel.All we have here is normal unleaded/unleaded 95/shell V power.

[adamc11]

It is 5% ethanol blend. Details can be found here: Shell in Australia - Shell V-Power Racing

Is it safe to put ethanol through your engine and is it worth it?

[iRiot]

It is 5% ethanol blend. Details can be found here: Shell in Australia - Shell V-Power Racing

Is it safe to put ethanol through your engine and is it worth it?

1991_Vn2nV
thats right i didn't want to use it either till i new it was good you cant put in in to cars from 1986 and up its better for your car better for the planet and better on the pocket it run fine in all the turbos and v8's in mildura
KRUPTD
and bp ultimate 98 is $1.69 in mildura united ethenol plus95 is $1.43 which is the cheapest fuel in mildura over normal 91 unleaded which is $1.48 and premium fuel 95 unleaded is 1.55


Rob*

[1991_Vn2nV]

Today Tonight (i think, or maybe another show) compared lots of fuels.... caltex vortex 98 came out with the most mileage.
Also, what do people think of 100 RON fuel that shell have (well i think it is shell, i havn't seen it that often so not sure). I believe it is an ethonol blend. Is this ok to run in an ls1 engine or not? and is it worth it?

Thanks.

That today tonight comparison was a load of crap, there is a thread on this site about it if you do a search. Don't use an ethanol blend, don't be a tightass.

1991_Vn2nV
thats right i didn't want to use it either till i new it was good you cant put in in to cars from 1986 and up its better for your car better for the planet and better on the pocket it run fine in all the turbos and v8's in mildura

Standard unleaded is better on the pocket, ethanol based fuels increase fuel consumption and you need to be saving atleast 4c per litre at those prices just to be breaking even on fuel costs.

Also, ethanol is not really any better for the environment at all. The emissions etc. caused through the manufacturing of ethanol pretty much cancels out any benefit to the environment ethanol should have.

And it is far from better for your car. You obviously don't know the facts, so I suggest you do some research.

[adamc11]

Don't use an ethanol blend, don't be a tightass.

I actually thought it cost more, but i guess i'm wrong.

[iRiot]

Ethanol (ethyl alcohol) is a clear, colourless liquid, generally manufactured from grain or sugar. (Currently around 90% of Australia’s ethanol is produced from wheat). Blending ethanol and petrol in various proportions has been put forward as a means of reducing greenhouse gas emissions and alleviating adverse economic conditions in the sugar industry.

In a 10 per cent blend (E10), all other things being held the same, you might get a zero to 2.7 per cent loss in mileage (kilometres per litre).well i get 100k to 10ltrs Another performance benefit from ethanol is its high octane addition to fuel. Of all the commercially viable octane enhancers possible, nothing delivers more punch than ethanol
Other benefits due to ethanol in your car are technical in nature, but may be summarized as follows:

Results of studies conducted around the world on emissions outcomes and performance of ethanol blends are often contradictory. Emissions from ethanol blended fuels vary markedly between different ethanol blends and different vehicle technologies.
Within the Australian context, the use of ethanol blends of 10% (E10) has been found to result in:

* Decreased emissions of carbon monoxide (CO) (32%) and hydrocarbons (HC) (12%);

* Increases in non-regulated toxics: acetaldehyde (180%) and formaldehyde (25%);

* A slight (1%) increase in nitrogen oxides; and

* Decreases in non-regulated toxics: 1-3 butadiene (19%), benzene (27%).

Recent Australian life-cycle analysis work has revealed that E10 blends are considered greenhouse neutral.

1. Cleans engine over time, especially harmful combustion chamber deposits.
2. Improved front end volatility for better cold start and improved operation (driveability and distillation curve effects).
3. Dissolves any fuel line and fuel tank water, which are sources of corrosion, and eliminates them out the exhaust.
4. The higher octane of the ethanol blend allows the new cars with higher compression ratio to run without changing refinery operations.

Adding ethanol to regular unleaded at 10 per cent is an easy way to make unleaded premium, and it extends supplies by 10per cent. Without any modification of the base gasoline, however, the vapour pressure of the fuel will increase slightly, leading to more evaporative, or fugitive, emissions. These are primarily vapours that escape the carbon canister on the automobile, or are forced into the air as the level in a fuel tank rises. They do not include fuel spills, because normally the entire volume of a gasoline spill will evaporate in any case.

The question is whether this greater evaporative mass gives rise to greater pollution potential than the large benefit of exhaust emissions reduction. It is my opinion as a fuel scientist that the nature of the chemical make-up of this new vapour space is less harmful that the unblended, but lower pressure, base gasoline. Ethanol itself, for example, which is now part of the vapour, has a lower ozone-forming potential than olefins and aromatics

After years of ethanol use in once-polluted major cities in the USA and Brazil, the air is demonstrably cleaner and within federal guidelines for a healthy lifestyle. Not only are toxic species reduced, such as carbon monoxide and aromatics, but also the potential to produce ground level ozone is lower because the elements necessary for its production have been greatly lessened. In particular, high octane benzene, known to cause leukaemia, can be nearly eliminated because ethanol can provide the octane it once did.

i did do research

[1991_Vn2nV]

Ethanol (ethyl alcohol) is a clear, colourless liquid, generally manufactured from grain or sugar. (Currently around 90% of Australia’s ethanol is produced from wheat). Blending ethanol and petrol in various proportions has been put forward as a means of reducing greenhouse gas emissions and alleviating adverse economic conditions in the sugar industry. How is that relevant when Australian ethanol is produced mostly from wheat?

In a 10 per cent blend (E10), all other things being held the same, you might get a zero to 2.7 per cent loss in mileage (kilometres per litre) -try 2.8% or more... Ethanol has a lower energy content than petrol (34% less), the 1998 Australian field trial by Apace Research observed a fuel consumption increase of up to 2.8% with E10. In theory, E10 fuels should result in a 3.4% increase in fuel consumption. Either way, the FACT is Fuel Economy is DIRECTLY proportional to the fuels energy content... And Ethanols energy content is 34% lower than standard unleaded fuel. well i get 100k to 10ltrs - I highly doubt it, maybe with highway driving you do - Another performance benefit from ethanol is its high octane addition to fuel - Octane rating is just a measurement of the ignitability of fuel. Ethanol blends provide little if none of the benefits that a PREMIUM UNLEADED fuel do. They are much more than a high octane fuel, they contain various additives, are regulated more stringently and are a much cleaner fuel. Of all the commercially viable octane enhancers possible, nothing delivers more punch than ethanol
Other benefits due to ethanol in your car are technical in nature, but may be summarized as follows:

Results of studies conducted around the world on emissions outcomes and performance of ethanol blends are often contradictory. Emissions from ethanol blended fuels vary markedly between different ethanol blends and different vehicle technologies.
Within the Australian context, the use of ethanol blends of 10% (E10) has been found to result in:

* Decreased emissions of carbon monoxide (CO) (32%) and hydrocarbons (HC) (12%);

* Increases in non-regulated toxics: acetaldehyde (180%) and formaldehyde (25%);
That is a 180% INCREASE in a toxic chemical. Acetaldehyde is an air pollutant resulting from combustion, such as automotive exhaust and tobacco smoke. It is also created by thermal degradation of polymers in the plastics processing industry. It is toxic, an irritant and a carcinogen. In case you don't know what carcinogens are... THEY CAUSE CANCER! i.e. We don't want a 180% increase in acetaldehyde!
And its also a 25% INCREASE in Formaldehyde which again is toxic, allergenic, and carcinogenic. It can often cause allergies, and can be found in the patch tests they do for allergies. The International Agency for Research on Cancer has determined that there is sufficient evidence to show that formaldehyde causes nasopharyngeal cancer in humans!

* A slight (1%) increase in nitrogen oxides; and
Again, this is an increase but its only 1% so its not as much of a concern.

* Decreases in non-regulated toxics: 1-3 butadiene (19%), benzene (27%).

Recent Australian life-cycle analysis work has revealed that E10 blends are considered greenhouse neutral. This analysis work does not take into account the building/producing of storage and distribution infrastructure solely for Ethanol and E10 fuels (normaly pipelines, storage tanks etc. cannot be used for ethanol as it is corrosive).

1. Cleans engine over time, especially harmful combustion chamber deposits. Ethanol fuel can negatively affect electric fuel pumps by increasing internal wear, cause undesirable spark generation, and causes corrosion in metal components of fuel systems that are non E85 compatible.
2. Improved front end volatility for better cold start and improved operation (driveability and distillation curve effects).
3. Dissolves any fuel line and fuel tank water, which are sources of corrosion, and eliminates them out the exhaust. This is incorrect. It would be more accurate to say "Dissolves fuel lines" It does not dissolve water, water cannot be dissolved. It ABSORBS water and the water will go from your fuel tank to inside your engine! I know where i'd prefer it if there was any water in my tank. Not to mention what will happen if there is water in the tanks at the service station which DOES happen...
4. The higher octane of the ethanol blend allows the new cars with higher compression ratio to run without changing refinery operations. Ideally, the compression ratio for a car running ethanol fuel is over 15:1, which would render the car useless for normal fuel.

Adding ethanol to regular unleaded at 10 per cent is an easy way to make unleaded premium, and it extends supplies by 10per cent No... once again there is a difference between a high octane fuel and a PREMIUM unleaded fuel. Without any modification of the base gasoline, however, the vapour pressure of the fuel will increase slightly, leading to more evaporative, or fugitive, emissions. These are primarily vapours that escape the carbon canister on the automobile, or are forced into the air as the level in a fuel tank rises. They do not include fuel spills, because normally the entire volume of a gasoline spill will evaporate in any case.

The question is whether this greater evaporative mass gives rise to greater pollution potential than the large benefit of exhaust emissions reduction. It is my opinion as a fuel scientist that the nature of the chemical make-up of this new vapour space is less harmful that the unblended, but lower pressure, base gasoline. Ethanol itself, for example, which is now part of the vapour, has a lower ozone-forming potential than olefins and aromatics

After years of ethanol use in once-polluted major cities in the USA and Brazil, the air is demonstrably cleaner and within federal guidelines for a healthy lifestyle bahahaha that is ridiculous. Cars make up something like 4-9% of air pollution... Whoever wrote that is an idiot. Not only are toxic species reduced, such as carbon monoxide and aromatics, but also the potential to produce ground level ozone is lower because the elements necessary for its production have been greatly lessened. In particular, high octane benzene, known to cause leukaemia, can be nearly eliminated because ethanol can provide the octane it once did.

i did do research Keep researching

My reply is in red.

Ideally, Ethanol is an ok fuel but there are too many external risk factors such as the absorption of water and phase seperating. There is no way to guarantee water won't get into tanks at service stations or even your cars petrol tank and ethanol will absorb that water and it will end up in your engine. It only takes a very small amount (0.5%?) of water to be absorbed by ethanol before phase seperation occurs.

When Holden release E85 ready engines/fuel systems then I might consider using ethanol, but even then there is no guarantee against water.

[iRiot]

ok ethanol is fcuked and and a couple of millions people are idiots
that what they said about combustion engine cars when they first made and sold them when steam and electricity was only in cars and they were wrong

[adamc11]

further information on ethanol can be found here:
Capability of vehicles to satisfactorily operate on Ethanol Blend petrol. | Ethanol | FCAI

[CSP]

The fuel test done by Today Tonight was a load of BS because it wasn't independant or done in a controlled environment. Different vehicles and different drivers were used and no proper equipment was used (i.e. a dyno, chassis or engine) just the car's trip computer.

[iRiot]

well i have been using it for 2 years and have had not one problem with it my mate uses it in his xr6t with 320rwkw and has no problems and my mate in a vy ss twin turbo 5.7 ltr commodore runs fine and all the other 40,000 people that use it in mildura and couple of hundred thousand in Adelaide and where ever else have not had problems so i think it works fine as long as your car is built after 1986

[jules]

the key issue is EFI vs carby. 1986 was just when a lot of models switched over to EFI.

EFI uses the lambda sensor to tell that the ethanol blended fuel is oxygen rich, and pumps more fuel in to compensate.

carbies just keep on doing what they do, which means running lean and that can cause a range of problems.