performance trans oils

[sircruisealotVS]

can anyone recommend a good performance auto trans oil for the 4L60E?
ive got a worked auto with all the fruit and its performs up to the task of handling the torque from my blown stroker most of the time. but give it a real bootfull for a long time then it starts to hold gears too long and generally feels like its confused about which gear to be in.

the shifts are still rock solid, but they just dont happen when they should after extented periods of driving hard - sometimes the converter will even lock up at funny points (earlier than it should), or even not at all untill you drive "normally" for a bit then it will lock up like it should over 80k's.
so im looking at changing to a better quality oil in the hopes it will perform better longer and possibly keep the auto temps down somewhat (already have a massive trans cooler btw).
ive always just used regular old dexIII and there's no signs of discolouration or burnt smell to it - i think it just gets too thin when its really hot.
so what can people recommend?

[MaN|aC]

I lost second gear on mine Pete after rebuilding it 16 months ago. I had no signs what so ever it was going to go

If you find something thats good let me know

[DannyboyDS]

Penrite do what is supposed to be a reasonably decent one?

[Shounak]

Just go a synthetic one. Penrite's SIN range really looks the goods. Check out the website.

Or you could always go the Castrol synthetic ATF's.

[sircruisealotVS]

hmm, hadnt thought about penrite, ill look into that. before posting i was thinking something like royal purple's trans oil or fuchs - i want something really good and dont really care (within reason) how much it costs as long as it works well.

[Shounak]

Have you had any work done to your tranny or is a stocker?

A 2nd hand transmission only costs like $150, there's no point in spending a stupid amount on oil if it's for standard applications. The money would be much better spent if it was put towards a trans cooler, if you do heavy duty applications that need it.

My recommendation would be to just stick with the Castrol ATF (it's brilliant stuff) and just increase your service intervals, rather than pay double the amount for an expensive oil that will probably do no good.

[Boonz]

castrol transmax Z is good for the 4 speeds
its what i use in my ute but its like $60 for 4 litres and you need 8 litres to do a full flush

[TWOJZ]

with only 225rwkw, you really shouldn't be having any problems.

you sure the transmission cooler is even working? is it connected along with the stock one? or did you bypass the stock one?

[sircruisealotVS]

shounak - its been fully rebuilt, with all performance internals. ive also got the biggest trans cooler i could find fitted already.

TWOJZ - its not the power that would cause any problems, more-so the torque. nipping at 600Nm, its alot of torque by anyones standards. the stock cooler and aftermarket one are both being utilised - i think its more the oil thats not holding up.

[Flat_White]

A 2nd hand transmission only costs like $150, .

hmm... are you sure?

i thought they were *significantly* more expensive than that.

[Shounak]

hmm... are you sure?

i thought they were *significantly* more expensive than that.

I didn't read all of the above properly and if it's a worked tranny like he has, then yeah I'd probably suggest a good top range synthetic ATF. You're spoiled for choice, but from the awesomeness of the Penrite SIN engine oils, I would assume that the SIN ATF's are just as good.

And 2nd hand transmissions really don't cost that much. Check on eBay for how much a 4L60E goes for. It's very easy to get a reasonable km one for about the $150 mark.

Although like with everything it would depend on where you are and who's around. It shouldn't be much more than that though.

[AirStrike]

Transmax Z FTW!

[commsirac]

shounak - its been fully rebuilt, with all performance internals. ive also got the biggest trans cooler i could find fitted already.

TWOJZ - its not the power that would cause any problems, more-so the torque. nipping at 600Nm, its alot of torque by anyones standards. the stock cooler and aftermarket one are both being utilised - i think its more the oil thats not holding up.

Power is what makes the oil and the tranny get hot......which appears to be when you are having problems.
Actually monitoring your tranny temp would be a good thing to do so you can see whether the temps are getting beyond what is acceptable, temps sensors can be put in the oil pan, wherever.
The problem is also just as likely to be clearances on a particular component in the tranny changing with temperature which is causing the problem.
If you do decide to change the oil to another type, it would be best to carefully research the viscosities and choose the one with the highest. Actually the symptoms you describe are what will happen on worn trimatic in normal use when the mounting on the kick down solenoid warps.
This could fix your problem but maybe just a bandaid approach to a component that is not quite right.

[immortality]

i would fit a trans temp gauge also. get a deep pan that holds more fluid and has cooling fins running along the bottom. (helps keep temps down) most aftermarket pans also have adrain plug to make servicing the trans easier. 4L60E deep pan with cooler

ultimatly go either redline or royal purple. when was the last time it was serviced?

[sircruisealotVS]

hmm, i like the idea of a bigger pan, something to look into! i service it pretty often - overkill most of the time. last one was only 4-5months ago.
ill probably end up giving that castrol one a go after reading a bit about it now - seems to be very good with high temps. the royal purple item is also spose to be good with temps, but it seems to only come in 1L bottles which is annoying.

[sircruisealotVS]

Power is what makes the oil and the tranny get hot......which appears to be when you are having problems.
Actually monitoring your tranny temp would be a good thing to do so you can see whether the temps are getting beyond what is acceptable, temps sensors can be put in the oil pan, wherever.
The problem is also just as likely to be clearances on a particular component in the tranny changing with temperature which is causing the problem.
If you do decide to change the oil to another type, it would be best to carefully research the viscosities and choose the one with the highest. Actually the symptoms you describe are what will happen on worn trimatic in normal use when the mounting on the kick down solenoid warps.
This could fix your problem but maybe just a bandaid approach to a component that is not quite right.

i believe the torque that the converter has to chew up creates the heat, having a stallie doesnt help in that department either with its slip before the stall point.
i can see what you mean about it possibly being a faulty component - but if it were a solenoid or sensor it would code, which is hasnt so im thinking its simply something relating to the oil becoming too thin or not working well when heated beyond normal operational ranges.

thats how it feels anyway - as soon as you stop giving it a hard time and drive normally its fine again within 5mins or so. 95% of the time there is absolutely no issue at all - most of the times this has happened to me has been doing "spirited hill climbs" with lots of braking into corners and accelerating out up an incline constantly.
ill be giving a new oil a go and see how it performs - if its still the same then ill start looking for broken parts.

[Boonz]

well put it this way... i used to ahve problems with burning standard dexron III after about 3,000 k's it would turn brown and smell burnt
im now using transmax Z with the same cooling system as before and it doesnt ahve a problem and ive done 8,000 k's with a 2,800 rpm highstall

my trans temp gauge shows 105 after thrashing round in the hills for half an hour which is very good for a trans thats got a bit of power pushing thru it with a highstall

[blownba]

transmax Z is the best for the price. It will drop trans temps by at least 20 deg C on its own.
Redline synthetic would be the ultimate IMO but it costs $$$$.
We run it in the Lenco in the drag car and the powerglide in my mates car.
Done HEAPS of work with them and still no signs of the fluid burning whereas the Transmax would start to smell burnt after a few meets.

[commsirac]

i believe the torque that the converter has to chew up creates the heat, .

.....not that this will help your problem.......you really need to consider how we measure torque, power and heat.

Heat is a unit of energy. Power is the rate of producing energy.
Heat is produced in the gearbox, the more that is produced the higher the power loss in the gearbox.
Torque is not a unit of energy, and cannot be converted to heat.
Torque without movement(rpm) will do nothing.
Torque x rpm represents power.

The torque convertor is a device that transfers drive from one place to another with a difference in torque between the input and output. Usually the aim is to have the output torque higher than the input torque when accelerating. It actually increases torque rather than chews it up, the process involves a lot of fluid moving around hence a lot of friction/heat is produced, or power loss.

[TWOJZ]

just an FYI, I have a "stage 1.5" shift kit, 2800rpm stall, NO aftermarket trans cooler (yet) doing around 250rwkw, 500+Nm of torque, and I have no issues with heat whatsoever.

I DO however have issues when its cold! on the first 2 or 3 gear changes in the morning, it jerks.

[vxcalais_01]

In a commodores magazine that cannot be mentioned on here, the gentleman was re building performance trans and he didn't use anything other than mineral trans oil. Castrol is good stuff, Redline meant to be one of the best, spoke to a WRX Sti racing car mechanic and changed from Redline to ULX. Find the oil that will drop the most temperature from the transmission as that is what is most detrimental to a trans (heat). Full complete flush of Castrol TQD 3 would be good enough for me.

[minux]

Trust commsirac to pick petty crap...



Thread tidied.

[sircruisealotVS]

just a follow up on this. in the end i went with the castrol transmax z and i gotta say im less than impressed. straight away i noticed the shifts felt softer and lazy, then i gave it a bootfull and noticed most shifts that takes place after about 4000rpm its slips (was not doing that before, was tight as).
shifts at lower rpm are ok and they dont slip at all, but with some boost behind it the trans doesnt hold the gear well and whilst the shift is still pretty quick as it normal would be under heavy throttle, i get a quick surge in revs as it slips.
its a strange problem, as sometimes it doesnt slip, othertimes it does - got me screwed whats wrong as a simple change in oil shouldnt cause this sort of drama.

[Boonz]

did you do a system flush or just drop the pan and change the filter?

doing a system flush rids the trans of any dexron3 fluid and stops the fluid from mixing and causing band slip

[sircruisealotVS]

yeah, it had a full flush done. if what you say about dex3 and transmax mixing and causing some slip is true then obviously there must still be some dex3 coating the internals - might run it for a little bit then drain the oil and replace to see if it helps.