water in fuel ?

[maxpower QLD]

Hi everyone

Ok in the past two weeks or so both of my cars have been useing heaps more fuel then they usualy do and don't run as smooth as they should so i've come to the conclusion that the guy's at my local service station are doing the old water in the fuel trick
The reason i say this due to the fact that i've been buying my fuel from the same place for about 18 months or more and they have a high turn over of fuel compaired to other servo's which means the fuel would be fresher/better quality if that makes any sence to anyone ? So my question is how can i test my fuel for water ?

Regads Swanie

[1991_Vn2nV]

If water has gotten into your fuel, it wouldn't have come from the service station. I would call you an idiot, but I shouldn't.

For the record, water does not mix with fuel. So if there is water it will be sitting in the bottom of your tank as the fuel will sit on top of the water. Once the water level hits the pickup lines you'd have a much bigger issue than the car using extra fuel.

[kicker12]

A friend of mine filled up a petrol station once and soon after the car began to make funny noises before it stopped in the middle of the road.
The RACV came and checked everything, and said that water had been mixed with the fuel and then they reported the station she got the fuel from..

[batemada]

I work for the fuel companies here in NZ on the tank, pump and computer side of things and this is a common problem. Most service station tanks will have water in them but only a very small percentage. only when it gets over 100 liters of water in a 30000 liter tank can anything be done about it.

the only way to test it for water is by taking it to a specialist tester which is not a cheap process.

[1991_Vn2nV]

A friend of mine filled up a petrol station once and soon after the car began to make funny noises before it stopped in the middle of the road.
The RACV came and checked everything, and said that water had been mixed with the fuel and then they reported the station she got the fuel from..

Yeah and it shouldnt be running. It gets sucked up with the fuel but it will not 'mix'. If the servo was deliberately putting water in their fuel it would be causing alot more problems than excess fuel consumption, once a bunch of water got sucked into the engine its gonna seize.

[1991_Vn2nV]

I work for the fuel companies here in NZ on the tank, pump and computer side of things and this is a common problem. Most service station tanks will have water in them but only a very small percentage. only when it gets over 100 liters of water in a 30000 liter tank can anything be done about it.

the only way to test it for water is by taking it to a specialist tester which is not a cheap process.

Get a peice of wire, put water finding paste on the end and stick it in the fuel tank til it hits the bottom. Essentially the same way service stations dip for water.

[maxpower QLD]

If water has gotten into your fuel, it wouldn't have come from the service station. I would call you an idiot, but I shouldn't.
.

well i'm sorry that u and everyone else on here think that i'm an IDIOT and i'm sorry that i'm not as knowledgable able as u in regards to cars

I just think that its f_cked up when i pay $1.69 a ltr for premiem unleaded
and i'm only getting roughly 50 km to quarter of a tank of fuel in both cars thats why i put it down to water in the servo's storage tanks or something and it only has to be a small amount of water to spiol the performance of a car . All i wanna know is how to find out if there is water in the fuel that i'm paying top dollar for ? becouse i know there is something not right with it water or no water .

[kicker12]

well i'm sorry that u and everyone else on here think that i'm an IDIOT and i'm sorry that i'm not as knowledgable able as u in regards to cars

I just think that its f_cked up when i pay $1.69 a ltr for premiem unleaded
and i'm only getting roughly 50 km to quarter of a tank of fuel in both cars thats why i put it down to water in the servo's storage tanks or something and it only has to be a small amount of water to spiol the performance of a car . All i wanna know is how to find out if there is water in the fuel that i'm paying top dollar for ? becouse i know there is something not right with it water or no water .

Thats kool man i understand, i dont think your an idiot-i'd be as ****ed you are if this happened to me!
After this tank maybe fill up somewhere else and see if theres a difference? Maybe the fuel isnt refined very well or its just dirty or something, either way i'd think about calling someone..not sure who-but that sucks

p.s. the thing that gets me is that its both of your cars :S perhaps call RACV or take the car into a mechanic and see what he thinks?

[TVR-190]

ACCC would be a start

Complaints & inquiries

[maxpower QLD]

once a bunch of water got sucked into the engine its gonna seize.

The only way a engine would seize if it had water in the combustion chamber would be over a period time of not being started e.g the piston rings would rust to bores causeing it to seize i would of thought ? well that's my understanding of it but feel free to correct me if i'm wrong

[maxpower QLD]

ACCC would be a start

Complaints & inquiries

Cheers man but i'm kinda limited to what i can do at this point in time becouse i don't anything to use to prove my point and living in a small town n all it'd be like sticking my head in a noose . There's ment to be another servo opening up in town but i'll keep that in mind though .

[greenacc]

If you really think there's something in the fuel you need to see the fuel. You could unclip your fuel filter and catch some fuel in a glass jar and see if there are 2 layers - top layer is fuel and bottom layer is water. Or , even easier , just fill up a feul at the bowser and do the glass jar test on that , saves you undoing anything off your car.
I do have some doubts that you will find anything, but check it out. If there is a little water in the fuel add half a litre of metho ( alcohol ) to the fuel tank. Metho will bond with the water cos its polar, and with the fuel , and get burned up in the engine with no problems( try the vl first...lol ). I have done it on my vs every few years with no probs. E10 would probably do the same.
Remember that the weather has been very cold lately. Your cars are probly used to warm qld weather and could have some kind of issue with temperature that you don't notice in warm weather

[maxpower QLD]

If you really think there's something in the fuel you need to see the fuel. You could unclip your fuel filter and catch some fuel in a glass jar and see if there are 2 layers - top layer is fuel and bottom layer is water. Or , even easier , just fill up a feul at the bowser and do the glass jar test on that , saves you undoing anything off your car.
I do have some doubts that you will find anything, but check it out. If there is a little water in the fuel add half a litre of metho ( alcohol ) to the fuel tank. Metho will bond with the water cos its polar, and with the fuel , and get burned up in the engine with no problems( try the vl first...lol ). I have done it on my vs every few years with no probs. E10 would probably do the same.
Remember that the weather has been very cold lately. Your cars are probly used to warm qld weather and could have some kind of issue with temperature that you don't notice in warm weather

I can understand that there would be a little bit of water in the fuel due to condensation but i'm only getting about 200 km give or take to a tank in both cars where as i'd normaly get about 500 in the VZ and my younger bro could get 600 or 700 km to a tank in the VL before i bought the car off him .
The VZ almost always has a full tank now days becouse i don't drive it much becouse i have the VL . I do understand what ur saying though and appreciate your imput mate so tomorow after work i'l try and drain some fuel out of the Vl and see what crap i can find in the glass jar . Stupid cars *rolls eyes*

p.s cheers for the helpfull input so far everyone , i'l let ya's know how i go tomorrow

[maxpower QLD]

Ok well there is VERY small amount of water in the fuel but i don't rekon it would be enough to cause my cars to chew fuel or be lacking in performance . I spoke to the manager servo and he said that he's had no compaints about the fuel and that it'd be my word against his so i'm just going to not worrie about it anymore and get my fuel from somewhere else

[batemada]

It could be that you might have got a fillup when his tanks were almost empty and could have got some of the gunk that builds up in the bottom of the tanks this in turn may have clogged you fuel filter which could be causing your bad fuel economy.

[vpete]

I'm with batamada on this one, also if you see a tanker filling the tanks at the servo stay away for at least 24hrs. They stir up all the crud in the tanks especially if they are really low! As mentioned the metho trick is a good one too, i do it about every 6 months to get rid of the water.

Cheers Pete!

[VrWagz1]

Fill up else where and if it still goes like **** then start doing the usual things(sesors, plugs ect....) to get it running nice again.

[1991_Vn2nV]

I'm with batamada on this one, also if you see a tanker filling the tanks at the servo stay away for at least 24hrs. They stir up all the crud in the tanks especially if they are really low! As mentioned the metho trick is a good one too, i do it about every 6 months to get rid of the water.

Cheers Pete!

They can't run the tanks empty, there are strict guidelines that say how low the tank can be before they close off the pumps. Once they reach a set point, they cannot sell fuel from that tank for 3 hours? after a delivery.

[maxpower QLD]

I'm with batamada on this one, also if you see a tanker filling the tanks at the servo stay away for at least 24hrs. They stir up all the crud in the tanks especially if they are really low!

Cheers Pete!

Hmmm i never thought of the crap that gets stired up after the tanker fills the tanks , It would prob explain a lot though . but i don't know why after 18 months of getting my fuel from the same place and then all of a suden both cars start playing up ? Anyways I've had the fuel drained out of the VZ and filters changed while i was at it and buying my fuel from calltex , havent had a problem since . wish i could say the same for my VL though. . .

[batemada]

They can't run the tanks empty, there are strict guidelines that say how low the tank can be before they close off the pumps. Once they reach a set point, they cannot sell fuel from that tank for 3 hours? after a delivery.

Trust me it still happens, there are some sites including big servo's who can run their tank dry very quickly. most sites only dip their tanks 2 times a day, early in the morning arround 5-6am and then again arround 7-8pm at night or later.
That leaves a very big window of time in which the fuel can run out.

[dylanfh]

In reply to all this,i had a service done on my car including the fuel filter,the mechanic was amazed by the poor quality of fuel,he asked where i normally fill up (which is a local quix servo),the fuel he showed me was like brown muddy water,nothing at all like it should be.Even though saying this my fuel economy is still pretty poor,my previous car was a 250ci carby xf falcon and got more k`s/better econmy that my vs does,besides that though the commodore is still a way better car than the xf.

[maxpower QLD]

OK well i just think it's gay how fuel station chains like woolworths,coles,BP and caltex just to name a few can sell some cheap sh!t fuel and sell it for top dollar becouse i comes out of a pump that has PREIMIEM (how ever it's spelt) unleaded stamped on it . I call it "selling fuel under false pretences" . I'm not sayin that all sevice station chains do this becouse if they did the'd most likely be out of buisness verry quick.I'm not trying to blow my trumpet here guys .I just want to be assured that i'm getting what i paying for .

[1991_Vn2nV]

Trust me it still happens, there are some sites including big servo's who can run their tank dry very quickly. most sites only dip their tanks 2 times a day, early in the morning arround 5-6am and then again arround 7-8pm at night or later.
That leaves a very big window of time in which the fuel can run out.

What era do you live in? The 80's?

Excluding perhaps some independants, the dips are recorded into a computer and any fuel sale subtracts from the dipped amount so they have a constant idea of fuel levels and it will flash LOW when they are nearing that limit. BP, Mobil, Caltex, Shell, SAFF/Enffue chains have all had this for years. Excluding independantly owned sites as they wouldn't all use the same programs as the corporate owned sites.

We carry 245,000L of fuel, most of that being unleaded and we are small in comparison to some other busier sites. Trust me when I say it does not run out that quickly mate.

[1991_Vn2nV]

OK well i just think it's gay how fuel station chains like woolworths,coles,BP and caltex just to name a few can sell some cheap sh!t fuel and sell it for top dollar becouse i comes out of a pump that has PREIMIEM (how ever it's spelt) unleaded stamped on it . I call it "selling fuel under false pretences" . I'm not sayin that all sevice station chains do this becouse if they did the'd most likely be out of buisness verry quick.I'm not trying to blow my trumpet here guys .I just want to be assured that i'm getting what i paying for .

There are incredibly strict standards and guidelines on Australian fuel, even stricter for any fuel that is sold under the Premium name.

The only risks involved when buying fuel are when purchasing from an independant. Large companies cannot afford to cut corners or break these guidelines as they can lose their license to sell fuel at that site and there are extremely large fines involved also.

If anyone has proof of bad/ill quality fuel, I suggest you take it to the ACCC. Otherwise I would be careful what you say because it can be considered defamation.