JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

[Reaper]

Insurance etc is easily overcome. As for work cover fraud, Anybody seeking a payout for permanent disability will find a way to get employment long enough to hurt themselves. If no permanent disability happens then weekly payments are based on the normal wages of the person. Thus I'd prefer they base it on the normal wages of the dole which is lower than most full time paying jobs.

Of course all of these things need to be considered however nearly all issues can be worked thru and overcome with a bit of thought.

 

[Calaber]

Interesting to see that none of the lefties on this forum have piped up about the supposed Naval personnel torturing asylum seekers, which was aired on the ABC last week. (Could that be because they are intelligent enough to see that it was bullshit?)

Some time ago, one of them stated on this thread that he didn't believe the ABC was biased in favour of the left. This story was so obviously full of holes that it defied belief, yet the ABC went full steam ahead and aired it. Pictures of a man with a seriously burnt hand, and an interview with an Indonesian Police Officer supporting the asylum seekers' story, were included in the report. (Of course, the police officer wasn't actually a witness to the incident, but never let the facts get in the way of a good story).

The report has been strenuously denied by the navy, and more detailed information has been provided about the incident, including the medical treatment administered by naval personnel to the injured men. Now, doubts have arisen with certain people within the ABC and members of the ABC staff have been given the task of trying to find naval personnel who would talk off the record about what really happened.

What possible reason was there for airing such an obviously concocted report unless it was to embarrass the government over its Sovereign Border policy (particularly the "secrecy" in which it is being conducted), and the Navy? And how stupid of the person who authorised the report to go to air, without conducting comprehensive checks to ensure its accuracy and authenticity?

Nah, they're not biased......much.

 

[c2105026]

Fair enough ABC at times can be biased to the left, and at times 7/9/10 can be biased towards the right..... it goes both ways. Combine the 2 you might get the actual truth

EDIT: OTOH ABC and Fairfax have run an investigative piece on union corruption in building contracts etc.

 

[Calaber]

Fair enough ABC at times can be biased to the left, and at times 7/9/10 can be biased towards the right..... it goes both ways. Combine the 2 you might get the actual truth

EDIT: OTOH ABC and Fairfax have run an investigative piece on union corruption in building contracts etc.

Whilst there has been bias on the part of the commercial stations, I can't recall a story which was so blatantly misleading and misrepresenting of the facts. This was much more than just a media beat-up. From indications so far, it was a blatant lie which had to be heavily influenced by political leanings of certain ABC staff. It was clearly deliberately aimed at causing maximum embarrassment to the navy and creating another ****-pot for the government. Another "Indonesian spying incident" so soon after the last one? You won't ever convince me that this was not politically motivated. I don't lay blame at any political party in this, but this sort of reporting is so false, you can't help feeling that someone's head should roll. The ABC's credibility suffers badly when this sort of reporting goes to air without proper investigation first.

 

[c2105026]

Whilst there has been bias on the part of the commercial stations, I can't recall a story which was so blatantly misleading and misrepresenting of the facts. This was much more than just a media beat-up. From indications so far, it was a blatant lie which had to be heavily influenced by political leanings of certain ABC staff. It was clearly deliberately aimed at causing maximum embarrassment to the navy and creating another ****-pot for the government. Another "Indonesian spying incident" so soon after the last one? You won't ever convince me that this was not politically motivated. I don't lay blame at any political party in this, but this sort of reporting is so false, you can't help feeling that someone's head should roll. The ABC's credibility suffers badly when this sort of reporting goes to air without proper investigation first.

LOL you don't watch Today/Tonight or A Current Affair, do you? Good heavens.....OTOH the Project on 10 does seem to have a bit of a Left bias, but seeing as how it is geared towards a younger audience, that is understandable.

Whilst it isn't tv/radio media, Daily Telegraph is as biased as anything. Just as ABC may well have Abbott in their sights, Australian and Telegraph whilst ALP was in power had them locked firmly in their sights. As for accuracy, a review of the Australian Press Council upheld complaint database will show that the right wing papers tend to be more inaccurate than Leftist papers such as Fairfax publications. There is some bias on the left, there is some bias on the right (at times though the relative degrees vary) - perfectly normal in human society.

 

[vr94ss]

Interesting to see that none of the lefties on this forum have piped up about the supposed Naval personnel torturing asylum seekers, which was aired on the ABC last week. (Could that be because they are intelligent enough to see that it was bullshit?)

On another forum when this was brought up I agreed with one of the righties there when he said:

He responding to someone: "Yes, from attempting to sabotage the engines. It's not rocket science, you know?"

Me: "I tend to agree with you. I can't see the RAN doing what is claimed. I also tend to think the claimed beatings, if anything physical happened, to be to stop the sabotage and not "beatings" at all. You'd have to just about bayonet me to get me to hold onto something hot enough to fry my hand, beating on me wouldn't do it. I also think they are far more professional than to, just for fun, beat and burn unarmed civilians for no reason."

Some time ago, one of them stated on this thread that he didn't believe the ABC was biased in favour of the left. This story was so obviously full of holes that it defied belief, yet the ABC went full steam ahead and aired it. Pictures of a man with a seriously burnt hand, and an interview with an Indonesian Police Officer supporting the asylum seekers' story, were included in the report. (Of course, the police officer wasn't actually a witness to the incident, but never let the facts get in the way of a good story).

Referencing me there I suppose. This doesn't show bias on the part of the ABC. They just reported the story. Read the story and you will see words like "claimed", "reported", "so and so said", etc. They didn't say the RAN did it, they we reporting what was said and claimed. It's just the right like ignoring words like that when it suits them and their biases.

The report has been strenuously denied by the navy, and more detailed information has been provided about the incident, including the medical treatment administered by naval personnel to the injured men. Now, doubts have arisen with certain people within the ABC and members of the ABC staff have been given the task of trying to find naval personnel who would talk off the record about what really happened.

What possible reason was there for airing such an obviously concocted report unless it was to embarrass the government over its Sovereign Border policy (particularly the "secrecy" in which it is being conducted), and the Navy? And how stupid of the person who authorised the report to go to air, without conducting comprehensive checks to ensure its accuracy and authenticity?

Nah, they're not biased......much.

As above. Was it not accurate that the AS reported this stuff to the media in Indonesia? What in the report was not accurate? They just reported what had happened and who claimed what. The ABC didn't claim anything as far as I have seen.

Edit: If there wasn't so much secrecy on our side of the sea, ABC would have more sources to quote than those in Indonesia.

 

[Calaber]

To try to respond to both VR and C3P0

First, I couldn't recall who it was who had said they didn't think the ABC was biased. OK, so it was VR. Fine. My comment wasn't meant as a criticism, so don't take it that way, please.

I can accept that the News Limited media is extremely pro-Conservative. I can also accept (in fact, I am firmly convinced,) that reporters like Piers Akerman and Andrew Bolt are so far right that their reporting is distorted in that direction to the point where it becomes laughable. I read their columns because I WANT to get a balanced view - as I have previously stated, I watch Ritcho, interviews with Keating, Q and A and sometimes, Media Watch (that last one is very hard to take, though).

However, no matter how biased those reporters may be in favour of the right, I cannot recall reading or watching reports that were anti-Labor, which were so utterly full of lies and distortions, and based on such flimsy and incredible "evidence". Whilst VR can question which part of the report was inaccurate, as it "reported what had happened and who claimed what", it didn't. It reported "who claimed what", sure, but not "what happened". What happened is that some asylum seekers whose attempt to enter Australia failed, injured themselves by whatever means and accused members of the RAN of torturing them. A police officer who witnessed their injuries supported their claims. I believe it conveniently overlooked the medical treatment administered by RAN personnel.

The ABC presented the story in such a manner that it could be construed as fact. There was no effort to assure its audience that there was no substantive corroboration of the story. Use of words like "reported" or "claimed" are used equally in factual and fictitious reporting - they lend no weight to the integrity of this story, which follows on very soon after the Spy-scandal story, reported on the ABC on the grounds of the public interest, rather than national interest and damn the consequences to international relations.

And no, I prefer not to watch cheque-book media like Current Affair and Today Tonight. Both shows thrive on sensationalism, carefully edited statements and deliberate omissions. Hoon stories, conmen and lousy landlord tales can be left to the simpletons, thanks.

 

[gopher]

What possible reason was there for airing such an obviously concocted report unless it was to embarrass the government over its Sovereign Border policy (particularly the "secrecy" in which it is being conducted), and the Navy? .

I agree what possible reason can there be
The government is handling embarrassing itself on this policy just fine

 

[vr94ss]

To try to respond to both VR and C3P0

First, I couldn't recall who it was who had said they didn't think the ABC was biased. OK, so it was VR. Fine. My comment wasn't meant as a criticism, so don't take it that way, please.

I can accept that the News Limited media is extremely pro-Conservative. I can also accept (in fact, I am firmly convinced,) that reporters like Piers Akerman and Andrew Bolt are so far right that their reporting is distorted in that direction to the point where it becomes laughable. I read their columns because I WANT to get a balanced view - as I have previously stated, I watch Ritcho, interviews with Keating, Q and A and sometimes, Media Watch (that last one is very hard to take, though).

However, no matter how biased those reporters may be in favour of the right, I cannot recall reading or watching reports that were anti-Labor, which were so utterly full of lies and distortions, and based on such flimsy and incredible "evidence". Whilst VR can question which part of the report was inaccurate, as it "reported what had happened and who claimed what", it didn't. It reported "who claimed what", sure, but not "what happened". What happened is that some asylum seekers whose attempt to enter Australia failed, injured themselves by whatever means and accused members of the RAN of torturing them. A police officer who witnessed their injuries supported their claims. I believe it conveniently overlooked the medical treatment administered by RAN personnel.

The ABC presented the story in such a manner that it could be construed as fact. There was no effort to assure its audience that there was no substantive corroboration of the story. Use of words like "reported" or "claimed" are used equally in factual and fictitious reporting - they lend no weight to the integrity of this story, which follows on very soon after the Spy-scandal story, reported on the ABC on the grounds of the public interest, rather than national interest and damn the consequences to international relations.

And no, I prefer not to watch cheque-book media like Current Affair and Today Tonight. Both shows thrive on sensationalism, carefully edited statements and deliberate omissions. Hoon stories, conmen and lousy landlord tales can be left to the simpletons, thanks.

By what happened, I meant the AS telling the Indo police, the Indo media reporting, etc, not what happened on the boat. Sorry if that wasn't clear but I thought it would have been seeing as I said I don't believe the AS story.

The ABC was reporting allegations, as they should, as does every media outlet. Should News Limited not report on allegations of theft by Thompson or should the ABC not report allegations of corruption in the Unions as they have just done until the investigations are done, court cases are over? Just because you don't like the allegations does not make the messenger biased. I didn't take the story by the ABC, as it was presented, as fact and nor should anyone with half a brain take allegations as fact. Every day would be a slow news day if the media were to stop reporting on allegations and only reported what they knew to be unequivocally true.

edit: re bold - The media is supposed to be there for public interest/good, not govco's interests.

 

[Calaber]

I agree what possible reason can there be
The government is handling embarrassing itself on this policy just fine

Ahhh, stuck your head up for another look around, eh gopher?

Any "embarrassment" this government suffers over boat people pales into insignificance compared to your precious lot. No boats for five weeks so far - can't remember Labor getting anywhere near that result.

Back in your burrow, mate......