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Extreme Negative Fuel Trims -35% to -40% both banks when extended hot IDLE

duca1991

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No if HPFP is leaking it squirts fuel into the passenger side rocker box and then straight down the oil galley into the sump where it mixes with the oil and starts washing out all the bearings and reducing the oils lubrication which starts scoring the bore and then the crank bearings etc etc.

Look at the photo the spring end goes into the engine and the rear exhaust cam drives it.
They start leaking from there.
Thanks for the explanation on the HPFP

If this is the case, would you expect the oil to rise fairly fast on the dip stick?
Last time I checked oil (just before we dumped it for Injectors) the oil
It was between add and full and with about 7500km of driving.
I can think back at least 8 months ago experiencing this same issue but did nothing about it.

I just have no idea how the oil level isn't rising as much as I'd think if there's fuel literally leaking into the oil, (not sure on the rate of the leak but gasoline smell is definantly there)
 
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Fu Manchu

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Case in point.
Fuel trims all over the show due to fuel in the oil and vapour getting into the intake from the fuelled up oil.

 

uglyoldfatbastard

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Thanks for the explanation on the HPFP

If this is the case, would you expect the oil to rise fairly fast on the dip stick?
Last time I checked oil (just before we dumped it for Injectors) the oil
It was between add and full and with about 7500km of driving.
I can think back at least 8 months ago experiencing this same issue but did nothing about it.

I just have no idea how the oil level isn't rising as much as I'd think if there's fuel literally leaking into the oil, (not sure on the rate of the leak but gasoline smell is definantly there)
Just like water, fuel evaporates when the oil gets hot and leaves behind the smell and the damage.
You are not going to solve the puzzle by looking at the dipstick level unfortunately.
 

Immortality

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I always say that if the problem presents on both banks the issue is most likely not injector related.
 

uglyoldfatbastard

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Case in point.
Fuel trims all over the show due to fuel in the oil and vapour getting into the intake from the fuelled up oil.

Dealership wanted to change the turbo and had already changed other stuff and just like I said earlier it's hard to diagnose.
That one must have really been leaking hard though to make the oil go up so much although short runs for testing probably didn't help.
 

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Dealership wanted to change the turbo and had already changed other stuff and just like I said earlier it's hard to diagnose.
That one must have really been leaking hard though to make the oil go up so much although short runs for testing probably didn't help.
True. I posted it more to highlight your idea of fuel leaking out from high pressure fuel pump.
 

Skylarking

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@duca1991, late to the party but I’ll comment anyway :rolleyes:

I’m always annoyed when hearing that expensive parts are changed by some mechanics using a parts canon mentality rather than actually confirming the parts themselves are defective. Seems much easier and more profitable for them to spend large chunks of their clients money only for the problem to remain (where sadly many clients simply continue to hand over more cash) :mad:

Annoyingly in this case, for the lack of correct diagnosis, there would have been cost effective petrol direct injection test services available that would have confirmed the old injectors were actually ok and minimised the need to spend larger sums on new injectors.

Regardless of what the fault is, when getting a $1000 parts estimate as an owner, I’d be asking why multiple parts would suddenly fail at the same time? Could there be some other part that‘s common to both banks of the engine that could causes the fuel trim? Could there could be a fuel contamination issue in which case other parts of the fuel system could be impacted? Are there any service bulletins that are relevant to such fault condition? etc, etc? I’d want intelligent answers back (but I’ve witnessed mechanics telling convincing lies just to make $$ and avoid warranty) so it’s a really difficult situation for many who know nothing about mechanical and/or electronic things.

Sadly in this case it seems that mechanic isn’t exhibiting top skills within his field and in future I’d be looking elsewhere for service.

But we are where we are and as already suggested by others, I’d pop the left rocker cover off ASAP and if it’s obvious fuel has washed that area clean, you know what the problem is… then just replace the high pressure injector and change the oil… Better to be sitting down when you find the price of a high pressure fuel pump for the LFX as it’s around the $500-$600 mark (I’d use genuine over after market ones even if more costly)…

This is what the high pressure fuel pump looks like..

1694045856602.jpeg


Don’t delay resolving this issue as fuel in oil can destroy engines. Hopefully there hasn’t been too much damage already done to your engine from the fuel in your oil :oops:

Really, I always want my old removed components given to me in a box when getting mechanical work done… Why, because if the fault isn’t fixed I’ve got known good parts that have some value and it’s often easier to sell those old parts than go through the process of ACL statutory warranty claim and fighting for a refund (through VCAT where OP lives)

Such is car ownership :oops:

PS: Diagnose Dan is a great resource that in many cases highlights the importance of taking what some professionals say with a grain of salt before handing over good money.

The following example is when both a dealer and independent mechanic can’t resolve the cause of a no start which is faulty cam timing that impacting high pressure fuel injection. This isn’t related to your issue other than clueless mechanics being involved but it’s an interesting watch anyway. (in this example Id expect the engine is junked because interference fit engine and all that entails).

 

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Which reminds me to dump the oil in my car after running some lifter free in the crank for 1000k
 

Fu Manchu

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The examples of Dans video are shown for good reason.
He shows methodical fault finding.
He explains everything he is doing and why.
He shows how he is doing it.
So often showing how workshops and dealers don’t have the skills to properly diagnose a vehicle.
 

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… often showing how workshops and dealers don’t have the skills care to properly diagnose a vehicle since the parts canon is much more profitable.
FIFY :p
 
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