Coilovers to suit VN

[savage1987]

Just wondering if you guys stock anything by way of coilovers to suit a VN? Best option so far appears to be Ksport's offerings for $1750 (front and rear).

Thanks,
Sam

[GRPABT1]

I recently looked into this Sam and yeah the K-sports seemed the best option if you're set on coil overs.

If the hight adjustability isn't on your priority list then King Springs actually do a set of 500lb front springs for $190 a pair which is higher the the 480lb in the K-sports. I went this way, found some Koni yellows off ebay for $330, and adjustable castor rods $185+post and pedders pillow ball strut tops $260. All up comes in at around $1000 compared to $1200 for the just the front coil overs with the added bonus of castor adjustment that the K-sports don't have and a more factory setup that I think is more durable for track duties than a modified strut coil over (you still have to modify your strut housing for the K-sports)

Velocity auto have coil overs too but they are just as dear and don't come with the camber tops.

[savage1987]

I don't think I need (or would even benefit from) 500lb front springs - remember my motor is very light!! The front end actually ended up higher on the V6 springs with the LS1 than it ever sat even with the V6 in it. I'm honestly more concerned about getting the rear spring rate correct to try to minimise axle tramp which I'm convinced played a lead role in snapping my axle..

There's nothing stopping me from getting those adjustable caster rods anyway - did you use Whiteline's ones? I was thinking about this already actually.

Also need to work out what I want by way of swaybars front and rear. I'm not skimping out this time, it's getting set up how I want it so there's plenty of planning to be done!

[GRPABT1]

Nah I didn't use whiteline ones. I sent a set of stocko's down to Keith Croft of Croft Engineering to be modified, he makes them for the saloon cars. The whiteline ones wee about $500 where as Keith does them for $185 plus postage.

his number is 0245736418

And the part number for front springs is the same from VN to VZ regardless of what motor is fitted funnily enough haha. Honestly though I can't say I have ever had a problem with axle tramp in my VN. What is your pinion angle like? I bought whiteline adjustable upper trailing arms to correct my pinion angle but the ends aren't really strong and the stretched after one trip to the drags so we're modifying them with thicker wall tube to accept a stock size superpro bush.

[gslrallysport]

Just wondering if you guys stock anything by way of coilovers to suit a VN? Best option so far appears to be Ksport's offerings for $1750 (front and rear).

Thanks,
Sam

Hi Sam,

Apologies about the late reply! Anything urgent always best to call.

Best as in what? Or what are you using the car for? We've got a stack of options to suit VN, but just quickly:
- Why coilover? What's more important, performance, or ability to adjust ride height?
- What's your budget?

Regards,
Greg

[savage1987]

It's really not urgent at all Greg as I've just been called away with work for a week or so and it'll be another month or so before I'm looking at purchase.

I'm thinking coilover because I like the adjustment aspect. I have just moved a set of King springs, Koni red shocks and adjustable Noltec strut tops into the other car and I'm redoing the LS1 from scratch, the way I want to build it.

I realise there may be better options with regard to pure performance but for adjustability I think I'd be stupid not to look at the coilovers. The ability to fit 20s neatly in the front is nice too. I guess the biggest benefit I can see is that I'll have so much adjustment in the rear to play with to try to kill off the axle-snapping tramp at the drags.

Budget at this point is flexible. I don't want to be doing this suspension a third time.

ADR approval is also important, since this whole car needs to be engineer approved with the LS1 for obvious reasons

[GRPABT1]

You do realize coil overs in the rear are still a seperate coil on an adjustable height spring mount don't you? Unless you go really custom. I'm thinking you might have tramp from other issues. How's the bushes and upper trailing arms and mounts in your VN?

[savage1987]

They were shot but are new now. From my huge amounts of reading about this stuff I discovered a softer rear spring rate can help with tramp as well... any truth in this?


and yeah I just figured out the rear setup today - I was confused how they could mount a coilover anywhere back there and I found my answer!! They can't!!

[GRPABT1]

Yeah well if launches are your thing then most coil over kits would be much too stiff, aimed more for cornering. First thing I would check is the pinion angle and rear shock condition. FE2 springs are known to give the best launch for commodores of basically every model until you have that much power and tyre that you are squatting too much but you have to compromise if you desire a lowered hight. I just run king Superlows and Pedders sports riders in the back and have never tramped.

[vhr32]

I was confused how they could mount a coilover anywhere back there and I found my answer!! They can't!!

Custom rear coil overs:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...n/IMGP0325.jpg

[mischa]

Hijacking this thread.

These stiffer springs you mention 500lb whats the part number on them? Ive got KHPR-19 and KHRL-20HD, do you know what these are ratted at. Ive included a picture of the body roll im getting. Would a coil over in the front end be better for the track as I can adjust it for the day then raise it back up for the street?

[immortality]

Hijacking this thread.

These stiffer springs you mention 500lb whats the part number on them? Ive got KHPR-19 and KHRL-20HD, do you know what these are ratted at. Ive included a picture of the body roll im getting. Would a coil over in the front end be better for the track as I can adjust it for the day then raise it back up for the street?

Looking at the picture your anti roll bars need upgrading at an minimum.

Yes, coil overs are a lot better for racing as they are much more tune-able. In that I mean that it's easy to change out the springs and generally speaking coil overs use adjustable shocks which really allow you to tune the ride much better (bump and rebound rates).

Custom rear coil overs:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...n/IMGP0325.jpg

That looks like a decent set up (possibly very similar too if not the McDonald Bro rear end coil over conversion), also looks like it's had a watts linkage conversion done (instead of the pan hard rod) all these things help to make the suspension much more tune-able which is ideal for racing use

[padrickz88]

Also just a heads up, there's a thread on the other forum of a guy who put s13 coilovers in the front of his drift vn...
His username was something like dioxide.
I think he also converted to the vr/vs hub type system, but I could be wrong.

[hakhawk]

Looking at the picture your anti roll bars need upgrading at an minimum.

Yes, coil overs are a lot better for racing as they are much more tune-able. In that I mean that it's easy to change out the springs and generally speaking coil overs use adjustable shocks which really allow you to tune the ride much better (bump and rebound rates).




That looks like a decent set up (possibly very similar if not the McDonald Bro rear end coil over conversion), also looks like it's had a watts linkage conversion done (instead of the pan hard rod) all these things help to make the suspension much more tune-able which is ideal for racing use

still rocking panhard rod that one. watts linkage has 2 mounts on the chassis, and one on the diff cover

[mischa]

Speaking of panhard rods, I also split the bush on the diff end of it that day aswell. Fairly new to. Watts would be good but a bit of work/money.

[immortality]

still rocking panhard rod that one. watts linkage has 2 mounts on the chassis, and one on the diff cover

Have another look at the pic (have a look toward the top RH side, you can see a triangular steel piece coming down from the chassis), lets call it an "reverse" watts linkage, it has 2 mounts on the diff and a single on the chassis, just like the V8 supercars do, that way it's easy to adjust the rear load centre. Also has a fancy rear roll bar.

Cheers

[immortality]

Also just a heads up, there's a thread on the other forum of a guy who put s13 coilovers in the front of his drift vn...
His username was something like dioxide.
I think he also converted to the vr/vs hub type system, but I could be wrong.

I've been working on trying to fit VS type suspension into early model commodores for that same reason, easy to fit decent brakes and coil over conversions. and more adjustability

Unfortunately it's not a simple swap over

[hakhawk]

Have another look at the pic (have a look toward the top RH side, you can see a triangular steel piece coming down from the chassis), lets call it an "reverse" watts linkage, it has 2 mounts on the diff and a single on the chassis, just like the V8 supercars do, that way it's easy to adjust the rear load centre. Also has a fancy rear roll bar.

Cheers

ah, it is too. been that long since i looked under a commodore, i missed that

[savage1987]

More pics required!!! I can't picture how that works. I spotted the anti-roll bar but also thought it was just a panhard setup. Never seen this 'reverse' type watts setup you speak of.

[hakhawk]

this is a standard watts linkage. reverse puts the outer pivots on the axle housing, and the center pivot on the chassis.



and this is how it works





measured up properly, there is no sideways movement during suspension travel, unlike a panhard rod

[savage1987]

Fair enough

I knew the basics of how they worked - they are a very clever design - I just haven't seen a reverse one done ever

[immortality]

Awesome animation Hak

I think the reverse watts linkage came about is because people wanted to make them adjustable on the car as can be seen on the V8 supercars when they make a rear roll centre adjustment.

I have seen the adjustable watts linkage bracket for sale somewhere bit it cost a small fortune, definitely worth investing in though if your a serious racer. I guess you could always make your own as well.

[mischa]

I've been working on trying to fit VS type suspension into early model commodores for that same reason, easy to fit decent brakes and coil over conversions. and more adjustability

Unfortunately it's not a simple swap over

By not simple what else needs to be changed other then strut, control arms etc?

[mischa]

Dw just read up on it.

What am I looking at Greg for coilover? Im more after handling/performance then looks but i want to be able to adjust it between track and street.

[gslrallysport]

Hi Mischa,

If you are looking for handling and performance then I recommend going for a Bilstein and King spring set up over a coilover. The only time you will get descent performance out of a coilover is if you are spending upwards of $3K on something like a DMS setup. The main reason that Bilstein's are better than a cheap coilover is that the Bilstein is a monotube shock, so they're not adversely affected by ride height, and the front have internal bump stops. Yes, they're not adjustable like a Koni Yellow or a Ksport, but it's irrelevant as they work better at both ends of the scale than the cheap coilover does. They have better separation of low speed shaft bump (performance) and high speed shaft bump (comfort) so they do both jobs better without user intervention. Think of the Koni as just a fancy adjustable KYB (both are twin tube). You can choose a ride height by the spring you use. Do you have a height in mind?

Regards Matt
The easiest and quickest way to get me is via email, matt.nagy at gslrallysport dot com