Should Peter Garret(not the turbo) be held accountable for four deaths?

[vp_commo]

Should Peter Garret be held blame for the four insulation employee deaths?

Its a pretty big call from Abbott to suggest so, but then again thats how Abbott made his career wasn't it?
Simply appearing on tv with a counter statment for every oposition issue that arised.

I voted no because the faults were there long before the insulation and were still a fire and electocution hazzard long before Garret apeared on the scene.

I am not sure who is responible for risk assessment on such projects but I am fuzzy on that one.

sorry I do not know what happened to my spelling of 'insulators' in the poll...

Cheers

Dan

[STEALTHY™]

You might need to post some info of what happened......

[SMIT]

lol i thought some people were killed by some turbos.

[Kikki]

Electricians formally warned Environment Minister Peter Garrett that metal roof insulation could cost lives months before he banned it.

By the time he acted, two installers had been electrocuted.

The federal government's $3.7 billion roof insulation program is in crisis as electricians scramble to check almost 50,000 homes that could have "live" roofs.

It's also been revealed that installers were not required to have any training. Two more installers have died while fitting pink batts under the scheme.

Mandatory training starts on Friday - almost a year after the program began, despite a string of warnings that untrained installers were dangerous and reports of homes catching fire because of poorly installed pink batts.

Mr Garrett revealed details of his handling of the bungled program to Parliament on Thursday amid calls for him to resign.

Last October, after one installer had died fitting the metal insulation, Mr Garrett met Master Electricians Australia to discuss safety.

"Master Electricians were very concerned in general terms that metal fasteners and foil insulation posed an unacceptable safety electrocution risk," Mr Garrett told Parliament of what was said in the meeting.

The electricians asked him to suspend the use of metal insulation in the program and issued a media release calling for the metal insulation to be removed from the scheme.

Mr Garrett refused to do so.

Another installer died while fitting the foil insulation after Mr Garrett's decision. This week he banned the foil insulation.

In his speech to Parliament on Thursday, Mr Garrett also detailed a series of warnings, dating back to February 2009, that mandatory training of installers was needed to ensure safety.

In one example, the National Electrical and Communications Association wrote to Mr Garrett in March 2009 asking that installers be formally trained.

Despite this, until Friday, any person can install insulation. There is no requirement to have training or work experience.

A supervisor must be present who has training, or two years' work experience.

Mr Garrett defended his performance as environment minister in the face of opposition calls for him to quit.

"I have discharged my responsibilities to the fullest capacity I can muster," he told Parliament.

"I stand by the decisions that I've made in relation to this program.

"Providing timely and comprehensive responses to the issues that are raised by the industry has been a feature of the delivery of this program."

Earlier in the day on ABC Radio, he sought to deflect blame for the insulation deaths to the installers.

"It's not the rebate that is causing accidents in people's roofs," he said.

"It's negligent or inappropriate, slack behaviour on the part of a very tiny minority."

Under the government's insulation scheme, announced early last year, homes get free ceiling insulation to the value of $1200. The scheme aims to stimulate the economy and to cut greenhouse gas emissions. Homes could be fitted with pink batts or foil insulation.

More than 48,000 homes have been fitted with foil insulation under the program.

Updated government advice indicates 1000 of the homes could have "live" roofs, which means anyone who goes into the roof cavity could die.

The government says it will pay for safety audits for all the homes. That is estimated to cost $19 million.

No, he isnt at fault. Have a look on gumtree and the ad's seeking people to install it. I called up about a job (to get people to sign up for it) and they were ALL Indians who live locally, employing experienced and non experienced people.

Example of one of the Ad's

INSTALLERS / DOOR KNOCKERS

>>>> GET PAID $350 - 500 PER HOUSE <<<<

FIND HOUSES IN COUNTRY WA
AND INSTALL MY INSULATION

I WILL PAY YOU $350 FOR BATTS AND
$500 FOR BLOW IN CELLULOSE

Where in that does it state you need experience? The thing is you DONT need experience, so you have a huge amount of people who have NFI idea about safety precautions to take in a roof after some quick cash, you end up with deaths.

[vp_commo]

No, he isnt at fault. Have a look on gumtree and the ad's seeking people to install it. I called up about a job (to get people to sign up for it) and they were ALL Indians who live locally, employing experienced and non experienced people.

yEAH I see what you mean, many opportunists in Brisbane and the gold coast also set up these fly by night insulation bussineses. As a matter of fact it has been a free for all grab on government money.

$1600.00 to install a roof with $50.00 worth of foil is a good earn for the bussiness owner, especially when the customer doe not have to pay and can only benefit.

But does this justify anything?
Who gave these business owners the green light?

Does the issue stand before the responsibility of employers to maintain a safe and adequte workplace by law (OHS worlplace policy)?

Dan

[minux]

Yes, he can be held accountable and should, along with all the other party members such as KRudd, Dillard, Swan and Tanner.

A direct quote from tanner:

“I don’t think it’s right to say we should have sat back ... dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s because we were in a crisis situation.”

Now, imagine if the local McDonalds owner used that excuse after killing an employee, or perhaps imagine if the local Judge said this after committing someone to community service.

the government has an onus to make sure that under their schemes qualified people are employed to carry it out. If this is not the case THEY must answer to these wrong doings. The reason so many dodgy operators are out there installing is because this very government have not had any checks in place.

Oh for the record, well done to Mr garrett for supporting Chinas industry with yet more of this wasted "stimulus".

[ari666]

should someone be accountable for teaching OP english "Should Garret be held blame for four deaths?"


and WTF is this : insularos

sounds like some kinda mexican gang.

not voting due to excessive engrish use.

[88GreenVN]

Toyota, Holden & Ford should also be accountable for road deaths in car crashes. They build the things for idiots to drive.

People passing young drives as OK to drive should also be hanged if the new driver crashes and kills some one.

Argument is dead.

[vp_commo]

should someone be accountable for teaching OP english "Should Garret be held blame for four deaths?"


and WTF is this : insularos

sounds like some kinda mexican gang.

not voting due to excessive engrish use.

there does not seem to be an edit poll heading option.
If you notice I have apologised for that.

Dan

[gopher]

its a workplace health and safety issue
the employers of the ones who died are the ones who should be held accountable.

[H1GHROLLR]

LOL i read the headline and thought HUH how can garret turbos be in trouble for people dying ROFL

[VYMAD]

its a workplace health and safety issue
the employers of the ones who died are the ones who should be held accountable.

I agree with this, it's the duty of care for all employers to provide training and make sure that each employee is capable of carrying out the type of work. Each individual job should have risk assessments completed before starting work.
Having said this, though there will always be accidents/incidents due to unforeseen hazards, stupid behaviour and the like.

[vp_commo]

The electricians asked him to suspend the use of metal insulation in the program and issued a media release calling for the metal insulation to be removed from the scheme
Mr Garrett refused to do so..

This is strange to me?, the guy is a lawyer/politician not an electrician, why would he reject somthing that has been condemmed by the master electrician associaton??

Dan

[vp_commo]

I agree with this, it's the duty of care for all employers to provide training and make sure that each employee is capable of carrying out the type of work. Each individual job should have risk assessments completed before starting work.
Having said this, though there will always be accidents/incidents due to unforeseen hazards, stupid behaviour and the like.

very true, maybe the bulk/frequencey of the work load has made it look worse than it really is.
who is to say these 'live roofs' would not have killed others in good time..


Cheers

Dan

[minux]

its a workplace health and safety issue
the employers of the ones who died are the ones who should be held accountable.

I agree with this, it's the duty of care for all employers to provide training and make sure that each employee is capable of carrying out the type of work. Each individual job should have risk assessments completed before starting work.
Having said this, though there will always be accidents/incidents due to unforeseen hazards, stupid behaviour and the like.

Normally, I would agree, however, the government are blatantly saying flat out that they didnt have time to make sure that only legal and qualified people would be selected for this scheme. They basically left it open for ANYONE to do it. People are forgetting this is the GOVERNMENT telling companies what to do with GOVERNMENT funding. Therefor, the government should be responsible for who can and cannot be employed to install such insulation.

[vp_commo]

Normally, I would agree, however, the government are blatantly saying flat out that they didnt have time to make sure that only legal and qualified people would be selected for this scheme. They basically left it open for ANYONE to do it. People are forgetting this is the GOVERNMENT telling companies what to do with GOVERNMENT funding. Therefor, the government should be responsible for who can and cannot be employed to install such insulation.

Not really.. an employer is obligated by law to ensure his/her employees are working in a safe and hazzard free environment.
So in fact your saying the government allowed people to install these products without enough regulation to ensure overnight cowboys did not get through.

maybe..maybe

I beleive there was some form of 'green acreditation' going through the motions but most of the people at present will not get to use their new qualifications. I doubt it included an electrical check.


cheers

Dan

[SV62NV]

lol i thought some people were killed by some turbos.

Your not the only one

[minux]

Not really.. an employer is obligated by law to ensure his/her employees are working in a safe and hazzard free environment.
So in fact your saying the government allowed people to install these products without enough regulation to ensure overnight cowboys did not get through.

maybe..maybe

I beleive there was some form of 'green acreditation' going through the motions but most of the people at present will not get to use their new qualifications. I doubt it included an electrical check.


cheers

Dan

There is no maybe's about it. No checks were done and it was handed over to whoever thought they could do it. Many of these houses had NO isssues beforehand, so would not of required a check. The issues have arisen because deadheads have stapled into live electrical wires and laid over light sources that should not be covered.

So for anyone who voted this option: No the safety hazzard was already there
You are ignorant fools who voted for something for the sake of voting, you do not even know the facts behind WHY garrett should be blamed.

Guess it explains why people voted for KRudd last election.

[Julie]

This clown should stick to singing and stay out of politics, personally I would like to see Garrett do a remix of 'Beds are Burning' maybe he could call it "Houses are Burning"

[vp_commo]

The issues have arisen because deadheads have stapled into live electrical wires and laid over light sources that should not be covered.

So for anyone who voted this option: No the safety hazzard was already there
You are ignorant fools who voted for something for the sake of voting, you do not even know the facts behind WHY garrett should be blamed.

even 'deadheads' need jobs, which is one reason that the OHS laws were introduced..to protect workers that are not educated to every aspect and would otherwise be taken advantage of.

If what you say is true, the blame lies beyond Garret and most probably with the employer for not complying with the OHS safety regulations that have been in place for some time now.

If an employee dies on a factroy floor through poor management and there is legislation in place to protect him/her, you cannot blame the government. Is this right or wrong?

cheers

Dan

[vp_commo]

This clown should stick to singing and stay out of politics, personally I would like to see Garrett do a remix of 'Beds are Burning' maybe he could call it "Houses are Burning"

yes thanks Julie...he is actually a lawyer

cheers

Dan

[vp_commo]

lol i thought some people were killed by some turbos.

No sadly not.... but we can only hope that such a headline arises

Dan

[calais24/7]

Your not the only one

Haha im another that thought WTF. But in a way i believe he is responsible if he ignored the warnings about the dangers.

[MasterOfReality]

I think he is responsible and should step down.

It is emerging that he was forewarned about the dangers but ignored the warnings completely.

To compare a program like this to car accidents to absolve any responsibility he has, is incorrect.

This was a special program that was put in place as part of the stimulus. There is a government register of installers, which presumably would have had to submit their credentials in order to get approved.

The fact that a register was established speaks volumes, and obviously someone in government didn't bother doing their homework.

I have to register with the QLD government as a registered professional engineer, and I got turned inside out with people checking and verifying my experience and qualifications.

Thats why this insulation program was nothing but a rush job, and as principal architect of the program, Garret should take the fall for it.

[minux]

Thats why this insulation program was nothing but a rush job, and as principal architect of the program, Garret should take the fall for it.

Well, "technically" he was taking orders from Rudd, Rudd being "CEO" and all, ultimately it is him who should take the fall. the amount of big business leader scalps labor has called for int he past for something that was out of the CEO's control is no different to this very case.