are todays new cars too heavy?

[old mate]

who thinks the weight of cars today is getting too much? i know its the progression of a car to have to be bigger, better & more powerful each model, but weight never seems to be an issue that comes up.

whats the point of having 300kw + if it has to lug around nearly 2 tonnes. especially in this time where fuel economy and environmental impact is scrutenised, why don't they start getting the cars lighter and smaller.

i think holden went too big and heavy at the start with the vt commodore. sure more room is nice, but just imagine if there was something that was around a vr-vs but with the modern engines/suspension/safety crap?

surely that would be better to drive, have better fuel economy etc.

i think in the next 15 years commodore/falcon will die if they keep getting heavier/bigger.

what do you think?

if there was an option for a lightweight ss model, would you choose that over a normal ss? obviouisly there wouldnt be as much features on it, but you would get better performance and better fuel efficiency.

i certainly would go for it.

[old mate]

damn it, how do you add a poll!

[STEEV888]

ford and holden are both bringing out new lighter engines for improved performance and fuel economy
so i dont think they will die.. what i fear will die is the age of petrol cars.. when im 50 and everything is electric and you have to drive 100 kms just to find a petrol station...

also a reason why they arent as lightweight is 1. ppl keep crashing them so they need to be stronger and more rigid. 2. carbon fibre is not allowed in this country.. and is also very expensive.

[old mate]

but do you really need a 20 speaker stereo with bluetooth and dual zone climate control?? i would happily have regular air con (or none) and a basic stereo if it meant that the car was 60kg less.

people crash cars yes, but that doesnt mean that they have to be heavier.

also not just talking about lighter engines, that alone will not save commodore/falcon.

[STEEV888]

personally i would love a better sound system etc. its all about the driving experience.. yes going fast is good but id rather get to my destination safe and in style
dont care much for bluetooth or aircon so agreed there.

as for the heavier cars thing i really went out on a limb for that and do agree with you on that one

and as for them dying technology will advance with demand it is already out there but its the hard thing of putting it into a car and keeping the cost down we must remember holden/ford are cheap cars for the "average" person
and they are bringing out LPI soon (or already have) so that will bring emmisions/running costs way down.

[Darren_L]

much of the additional weight of modern cars is a result of safety features rather than just size of the car.
The VE cabin strength played a big part in additional body weight. And then consider ABS, traction control, stability control, 6 or more airbags... all additional weight.
And as mentioned the list of creature comforts that gets longer with each new model.

Safety components are something that has to be there these days, so they can't cut back on those. However, I do agree that a more basic version of a car, particularly in a performance model like SS, where accessories were optional rather than standard. Remember the good old VH SS taxi spec cars ?? Very basic accessories, they didn't even come standard with radio or A/C. But you could get some hi-po engines, in particular the Brock Grp III.

[soop]

The majority of the weight of the car can be cut down just by making it smaller. As they found in the 1980's.

The VE is rediculous, sure their engines make a tonne of power but its redundant.
They could drop a tonne of weight just by removing some of the random crap that isn't needed. I think there should be a bare essential option. Nothing but whats needed for rego. I'm sure it would be cheap as hell, and I wonder what the sales would be like. Particularly amongs fleet cars.

[STEEV888]

VE torana for the win?

[Philthy]

Thats why I drive a VS. All the newer models I've ever driven have simply felt too massive and heavy. Even the VS is pushing it

[soop]

With some decent suspension VR/VS' handle pretty well.

[undersuspicion]

make a holden coupe (not a monaro or gto) but make it the lightweight model with a superb weight/power ratio. LS7 FTW!
And make a sedan as a lightweight option but keep it to bare basic. Cd 4 speakers, basic air con etc. I think they would be on to something there.

[ari666]

300kw in a 2 tonne car isnt bad... try 270HP in a 1700kg impala

they are not getting heavier or lighter IMO. if you want a light car, buy a 2 door sports coupe.

[Darren_L]

chassis strength is important for handling. VN-VS (somewhat improved in VT-VZ) had terribly flimsy chassis, largely thanks to the sikaflexed firewall...... DUMB idea GM... I remember when the VN Grp A came out, the guy who tested it in Wheels, commented how good the engine, driveline & brakes were, but let down by a flimsy chassis. Apparently the gap between the door frame and the roof would change by up to 15mm when cornering hard.

It wasn't until VE, that they finally welded the firewall again like earlier models. And the VE has far more strengthening in the chassis than any other model. GMH is claiming it's 200% more rigid than the VZ, and you can believe when you see all the extra floor beams etc added to the car. The more rigid the chassis, the better potential for handling, unfortunately it comes with a wieght penalty

[Jesterarts]

1. Yes I think todays cars are getting too heavy.
2. No, I don't think they keep getting heavier. Considering the developments in lighter, stronger materials that are laready in use in super/hyper cars and the fact that the raw materials used to make todays cars are slowly running out, cars of the future will become lighter though not necessarily smaller.

[Reaper]

The majority of the weight of the car can be cut down just by making it smaller. As they found in the 1980's.

The VE is rediculous, sure their engines make a tonne of power but its redundant.
They could drop a tonne of weight just by removing some of the random crap that isn't needed. I think there should be a bare essential option. Nothing but whats needed for rego. I'm sure it would be cheap as hell, and I wonder what the sales would be like. Particularly amongs fleet cars.

There are dozens of smaller models to choose from. Some people need the space and therefore there is a market for larger cars.

Of course manufacturers could delete some of the "random crap" that isn't needed but then watch sales take a nose dive as peoples expectations are very high these days. As others have mentioned, mandated crash and safety standards are also a large component of the extra beef. Imagine crashing a 1970's H series Holden that weighed 1300 - 1400 kg (or so) compared to even the most basic Commodore. I know which I'd prefer to be in. (Same test in a VN-P Commo).

Reaper

[old mate]

true, people do have huge expectations on cars these days but i probably dont look at things the same way most people do. if i buy a car, i want it to drive good. thats what i buy a car to do. drive. if i wanted to listen to music, i would buy a good stereo. if i wanted a comfy seat i would buy a lounge chairs.

i wouldnt want everything in the same thing, if the one thing it was supposed to do is worse off for it. its like mobile phones, if i want a good camera i would buy a good camera, i dont need a camera on my phone. as long as it calls and texts then its all sweet.

if the new commodore had a delete option for most of the stuff i would be all over it. delete carpet, delete sound deadening, delete stereo, delete heavy ass seats, delete air con, delete power windows (if they were heavier), delete whatever airbags arent mandatory i would be all over it. it might just be the way that i look at things, i would prefer something that was fun/good to drive over something that was comfortable to drive.

[STEEV888]

true, people do have huge expectations on cars these days but i probably dont look at things the same way most people do. if i buy a car, i want it to drive good. thats what i buy a car to do. drive. if i wanted to listen to music, i would buy a good stereo. if i wanted a comfy seat i would buy a lounge chairs.

i wouldnt want everything in the same thing, if the one thing it was supposed to do is worse off for it. its like mobile phones, if i want a good camera i would buy a good camera, i dont need a camera on my phone. as long as it calls and texts then its all sweet.

if the new commodore had a delete option for most of the stuff i would be all over it. delete carpet, delete sound deadening, delete stereo, delete heavy ass seats, delete air con, delete power windows (if they were heavier), delete whatever airbags arent mandatory i would be all over it. it might just be the way that i look at things, i would prefer something that was fun/good to drive over something that was comfortable to drive.

why dont you buy one then remove all of these products yourself ?

[ari666]

if the new commodore had a delete option for most of the stuff i would be all over it.

but then its not a passenger vehicle, is it? what you are describing is a coupe or track car. its like saying "i want a mercedes, but i dont want it to be heavy, refined, or have gizmos" ... well then you dont want a merc at all. you want a hyndai with a merc badge on it.

[soop]

There are dozens of smaller models to choose from. Some people need the space and therefore there is a market for larger cars.

Of course manufacturers could delete some of the "random crap" that isn't needed but then watch sales take a nose dive as peoples expectations are very high these days. As others have mentioned, mandated crash and safety standards are also a large component of the extra beef. Imagine crashing a 1970's H series Holden that weighed 1300 - 1400 kg (or so) compared to even the most basic Commodore. I know which I'd prefer to be in. (Same test in a VN-P Commo).

Reaper

Kingswood weighs about 1100kg. VN Commodore weighs about 1200kg.

2 - 300kg's is a little more then "Or so".

[Reaper]

Kingswood weighs about 1100kg. VN Commodore weighs about 1200kg.

2 - 300kg's is a little more then "Or so".

dunno about a VN however I put my vp on the scales (less a back seat and around 45 kg of body deadener etc that I weighed when I pulled it out) it came in at 1320. I couldn't imagine a VN at 1200 kg. Next - LH torans were 1250 so once again - I'd be shocked if a kinger was 1100 kg. Closer to 1400kg would be my estimate. Those old steel bumpers weighed heaps

Reaper

[STEALTHY™]

Want lighter cars? Pay for them.

Holden dont 'aluminuim' like european cars....

[doms1]

My vito van has a lot of plastic panels to keep weight down...

[FusionX]

Kingswood weighs about 1100kg. VN Commodore weighs about 1200kg.

2 - 300kg's is a little more then "Or so".

HQ with a 202 and 3 speed manual and half a tank of fuel weighs in at 1370kg.

VN V8 5 speed commodore with ~70 litre of fuel weighs in at 1480kg.

VE Omega Cop car, plus 2 cops inside weighs in at 2100kg.

That's from a certified weighbridge that is out only 20kg at 70,000kg. Good to put some real figures out there instead of people speculating.

[ari666]

VE Omega Cop car, plus 2 cops inside weighs in at 2100kg.

must be all those twinkies

[old mate]

i weighed my vs ute on my weighbridge and it was about 1390kg full of juice. pretty light for a commodore.