fuel pump upgrade??

[Kingston_99]

i'v got a Harrop blower on the way.

i want to upgrade the fuel pump. what is the best setup for me? what have others used?

[walesy]

hey mate your best option would be the ever popular bosch 044 fuel pump, theyre rated to about 700hp? (correct me if im wrong), i picked up a brand new one not long ago, theyre worth about 250-300 depending on where you get one, with the blower id suggest injector upgrade aswell if you havnt already, 60lb injectors should do the job nicely

[GenReaper]

Surge tank, Bosch o44 and a pressure regulator.

[SirNemesis]

I wouldn't suggest an 044 unless you absolutely need it. If you are planning on making 350rwkw or less, an intank walbro 255lph pump will do the job fine.

[Kingston_99]

well looks like a a bosch 044 pump and surge tank. been talking to my tunner and thats what he recomended.

I wouldn't suggest an 044 unless you absolutely need it. If you are planning on making 350rwkw or less, an intank walbro 255lph pump will do the job fine.

i wouldnt think so... im running the big boy HTV2300, gone be abit more then 350kw....

Surge tank, Bosch o44 and a pressure regulator.

thanks mate

hey mate your best option would be the ever popular bosch 044 fuel pump, theyre rated to about 700hp? (correct me if im wrong), i picked up a brand new one not long ago, theyre worth about 250-300 depending on where you get one, with the blower id suggest injector upgrade aswell if you havnt already, 60lb injectors should do the job nicely

injectors come with the blower, also fuel rail.

[GenReaper]

I wouldn't suggest an 044 unless you absolutely need it. If you are planning on making 350rwkw or less, an intank walbro 255lph pump will do the job fine.

No it wont when the swirl pot runs out of fuel and the engine runs lean.

Why is it that nobody seems to understand the standard fuel systems and missleads people ?

Maybe cause they dont have to pay for the engines when they go pop.

Surge tank does away with the bad standard pot design, maybe you should google it before giving false information.

[Kingston_99]

No it wont when the swirl pot runs out of fuel and the engine runs lean.

Why is it that nobody seems to understand the standard fuel systems and missleads people ?

Maybe cause they dont have to pay for the engines when they go pop.

Surge tank does away with the bad standard pot design, maybe you should google it before giving false information.

thanks mate, lucky i have read in a mag somewhere that an external setup will sh*t all over a intank job. plus " SirNemesi" you have the money to back that up if my blower pops my motor cuase the fuel couldnt keep up???

[SirNemesis]

No it wont when the swirl pot runs out of fuel and the engine runs lean.

Why is it that nobody seems to understand the standard fuel systems and missleads people ?

Maybe cause they dont have to pay for the engines when they go pop.

Surge tank does away with the bad standard pot design, maybe you should google it before giving false information.

Feel better now? 350rwkw is fine with a standrd walbro intank. I'm speaking from experience, not from what someone said to someone else on a forum, that you happened to overread and spew out like you understand. I've done it. It works fine, period. There are plenty of people getting around with turbo LS1's running nothing more than a walbro intank and 60LB injectors.

thanks mate, lucky i have read in a mag somewhere that an external setup will sh*t all over a intank job. plus " SirNemesi" you have the money to back that up if my blower pops my motor cuase the fuel couldnt keep up???

External setups do shit all over an intank job. No disputing that, but there are always negatives. A single Bosch 044 pump will chew 15amps and will make a hell of a noise. Your standard fuel pump wiring is too small to run this, so you will need to run new wiring.

I have no interest in the blame game if your engine blows up. I'm giving advice based on experience, if you do the same thing and it ####s up, that isn't my fault. But at the same time, I'm not going to get on the internet and tell you that you HAVE TO get an overkill fuel system.

My car is now running dual 044's, and I regret the decision every time I turn the key.

[wikky]

I'm using a Walbro 'intank' with my Harrop setup and it's fine. Like SirNemesis said, the 044s are too noisy (for the average punter). Kingtson, what does your tuner recommend?

[GenReaper]

Feel better now? 350rwkw is fine with a standrd walbro intank. I'm speaking from experience, not from what someone said to someone else on a forum, that you happened to overread and spew out like you understand. I've done it. It works fine, period. There are plenty of people getting around with turbo LS1's running nothing more than a walbro intank and 60LB injectors.

SirNem dont mean to sound rude but...

If you say so but where not running V6's here mate.
Yep plenty of people running Intanks hurting their motors and not knowing it.
Too povo to upgrade thinking it will be alright.
Most of these people probably havent touched a spanner in their lifes.
Im saving for a fuel system myself as i have seen lean outs with my current combo which is a Walbro intank pump.
So from some one who actualy owns a 350rwkw car i am advising Kingston to fit a surge tank, considering he may end up with more power than 350rwkw
Yes it will have to be rewired, good point.
Yes they are noisy, but until you have heard what conrods sound like coming out the sides of the block then the noise is very minimal.

[soop]

If its leaning out, I'd say it'd be the tune dude.

[delcowizzid]

surge tank and external pump anything else and your kidding yourself.accelerate round a long corner run the swirl pot dry suck the smallest amount of air and bang shits broken.for safety sake a surge tank.its funny most of the V6 turbos that blow up are running intank pumps most of the ones that take a hiding day in day out are running a surge tank take from it what you want .

[SirNemesis]

If its leaning out, I'd say it'd be the tune dude.

Not necessarily. If its leaning out gradually and consistantly at the top end it will be the pump failing to maintain line pressure. This could probably be corrected on by skewing the VE table to command more fuel, unless the injectors are hitting 100% duty cycle aswell, but not ideal.

It does show that you are reaching the limit of the pump pretty well at 350rwkw though

[GenReaper]

surge tank and external pump anything else and your kidding yourself.accelerate round a long corner run the swirl pot dry suck the smallest amount of air and bang shits broken.for safety sake a surge tank.its funny most of the V6 turbos that blow up are running intank pumps most of the ones that take a hiding day in day out are running a surge tank take from it what you want .

Finaly, some one with Brains :P

We aint talking Dyno queens, were are talking real world physics with actual G-Forces

[SirNemesis]

So now you are suggesting I don't have brains?

Yeah, I'm sure you your wagon generates a heap of g-forces.

[soop]

Another thing to considering with the supercharger is that compressed air gets hot.
Most people running turbo's wind the boost up superheat the air and compensate by adding more fuel. I found when playing with drift cars if we went with a bigger turbo and run less PSI (PSI is just and indication of restriction anyway) We could make the same power with less heat and less fuel.

How does the supercharger compare, with regards to air temp after compression?

On another totally unrelated topic, How is a surge tank warranted for a street car (aside from being illegal in 90% of the case's), If you're pump is up to the task of supplying the motor you shouldn't need one.

[GenReaper]

Dont get me wrong the Walbro does keep up on the dyno "Just" , but its the Swirl port design that does not allow for a good head of fuel all the time hence why Surge tanks are required.
It has not much to do with duty cycle although it could be better with a Walbro, but more about fuel supply.

And if an Intank pump in a standard fuel system is fine, then i would like to see a video of your cars going around a track with under a 1/4 of a tank of petrol flat out for 3 laps without blowing up.

Unless you drive like a grandma all the time then a standard fuel system is not up to the task.

Sir Nemesis, im not saying you dont have Brains, im saying you SHOULD know better than to advise an intank setup.

[SirNemesis]

My car doesn't do laps, it isn't a track car. My car is a street car that occasionally visits the drag strip.

If it makes you feel any better, my stock Holden pump held up for 320rwkw, and still ran consistant 12.7's @ 115mph on street tyres. No fuel supply problems, no lean outs. Not a bad effort for a 2088kg car with a manual gearbox.

But fine, keep throwing theory into the mix if it makes you feel better. I'll be sitting over here with the experience that matters.

[GenReaper]

Yeah no worries mate, i know my manual wagon is good for Mid 11,s at 125mph and have run my fair share of 10 second flat cars as well so i think i also can make that claim to fame
But this isnt a dick pulling contest its about a guy wanting to setup HIS car CORRECTLY.

[soop]

I think that just goes to show that its horse for courses.

You don't NEED a swirl pot and dirty big pump if you're not going around corners at 300mph.

[GenReaper]

I think that just goes to show that its horse for courses.

You don't NEED a swirl pot and dirty big pump if you're not going around corners at 300mph.

LoL soop, a swirl pot is standard equipment on every commodore if you did not have one your car would not run.

A surge tank is an external storage tank.

Just to clear that up.

A surge tank also allows you to run your main tank to nearly empty, without a surge tank you MUST keep at least 1/2 or 3/4 tank minimum for the standard swirl pot to be affective and i say that with much caution cause they are crap.

[AirStrike]

Soop how is a surge tank illegal? As for fuel setup, overkill is always the better option. I've just sorted the fuel system for my turbo setup, intank pump feeds a surge then twin 044's. As mentioned it's noisy but better then the noise of a blown engine.

[cpbait]

surge tank and external pump anything else and your kidding yourself.accelerate round a long corner run the swirl pot dry suck the smallest amount of air and bang shits broken.for safety sake a surge tank.its funny most of the V6 turbos that blow up are running intank pumps most of the ones that take a hiding day in day out are running a surge tank take from it what you want .

delcowizzid, you sound like one of my trade school teachers that ran the efi/engines room.

Iv heard a similar story with v6 engines blowing up, but these were 2 vs s/c v6's, apparently when Holden were testing them both blew the engines up in the same spot on a sweeping bend in the Northen Territory some where, both cars had about 1/4 tank left but on the sweeping bend it pulled the fuel to one side of the tank and bang they both went at the same spot due to fuel starvation.

As Airstrike said your better to over engineer/setup your fuel system than to go under and have a problem, better to be safe than sorry.


there's calculations you can do to determine how much fuel and what fuel system you might need: http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx can also try www.injectorsonline.com just remember to base your calculations on flywheel hp.

[Kingston_99]

thanks for a the comments guys. i'v decided to get a external surge tank with two bosch 044's.
my car is for track, drag, and street use. as Air strike said. i would rather put up with pump noise then a blown motor.

[GenReaper]

dont forget you will also need an external pressure regulator as well.