So how well do MACE V6 bolt on products work???

[MACE]

Generally speaking, we get a lot of positive feedback from our customers about our products, some of whom have gone to the trouble of testing them out of their own pocket (dyno runs etc.). However due to the busyness of life some may not get around to emailing/posting out dyno graphs

Recently though one of our customers took the time out to do just that, for which we are very grateful for as shown from the email below

Steve,

Sorry it took so long to get to you but here's a shot of my engine bay and the dyno chart.
Information RE my car:
-250,000km ECOTEC
-GETRAG 5 speed manual
-Full Synthetic Oils
-Top Gun leads
-NGK sparke plugs
-Pacemaker extractors
-2.5" exhaust from extractors back
-aftremarket radiator thermostat
-Custom tune
-MACE CAI
-MACE 84mm MAF
-MACE 69mm throttle body
-MACE 12mm plenum spacer
-MACE 25mm manifold spacer
-1:98 rocker kit from MACE

Hope this little bit of P.R. sees MACE produce used more readily!

Best Regards,
Justin.

As you can see from the dyno graph, the run and custom tuning was done at a very reputable work shop (Sams Performance) on a mainline dyno which is extremely accurate, repeatable and a touch conservative compared to say Dyno Dynamics results.

Going by the dyno graph the setup netted around 151kw at the wheels on what is arguably a tired engine just with bolt on products!

I suppose it gives something for people to think about as to how effective a couple of bolt on products on a NA ecotec can be

[Skidney]

If there's meant to be pics, we can't see them...

[MACE]

My bad had to resize them

Should be good now

Cheers
Steve

[VS_WPN]

Very impressive power figures at the wheels =D !!

[levymetal]

isn't the dyno printout in HP? 151rwhp = 113rwkw

[greenfoam]

Yep 113rwkw but that's not the same car from the other thread is it?. 137 something rwkw for that one. This is also a mainline dyno which is a bit less bullshit than a dyno dynamics and more comparable to track calculated hp, would be 120rwkw on a dyno dynamics I guess

[VS_WPN]

nah this is another car. this one did make 151rwkw. Not sure why it says it in HP :S Dyno also says its v8 on the side lol. Anyway it made 151rwkw. Also should have been dynod in 2nd gear.

[greenfoam]

I wouldn't believe a ecotec would make 151 rwkw on a mainline (impossible). HP will be what it is

[VS_WPN]

Interesting lol. mine made 122rwkw with an exhaust system and his is manual? I duno we'll see what steve has to say =D

[greenfoam]

Yeah, it's just a dyno thing man, At 150 rwkw there's probably -20 rwkw on the Mainline, maybe more, big difference. You really need to have both cars on the same dyno on the same day. But as a rule you wont go much over 140 without a cam on a ecotec even on a dyno dynamics

[MACE]

My bad, I knew the figure were quite high considering the car was run on a mainline in addition to having 20's!

Admittedly I didn't look at the graph in great enough detail considering the customer had called us and mentioned that it made 151kw at the wheels.

Will email Justin to find out what the exact power output is but my gut tells me that the figures are infact hp and not kw's.

There is a noticeable difference between the dyno figures that come out of a mainline to that of a dyno dynamics dyno with power readings differing to around 20 to +30kw at the wheels are common. Clearly the two machines calculate output figures differently especially in the older dyno dynamics items, as they are reliant on an external weather station etc.

Hopefully Justin will be generous enough to get a reading undertaken on a dyno dynamics dyno as they are pretty much the industry standard industry standard (rightly or wrongly), as reflected by about 70 - 80% of the dyno results on this site alone.

From feedback from other customers over the years figures, with similar bolt on mods, they've yielded around 140kw and 150kw at the wheels in auto and manuals respectively on a dyno dynamics dyno.

Also just further confuse people we'll also have some some step by step dyna pack results shortly on some bolt on mods undertaken on a VN V6

For those who are not familiar with the dyna pack system check out there site below

http://www.dynapack.com/

This will give people a true indication as to what % gains people can expect from some of our mods.

Cheers
Steve

[billy bob]

I would think 151 rwkw for a manual with a custom tune would be about right.
I have a VT auto with
Aunger CAI
Lukey high flow air filter
69mm Throttle body
24mm plenum spacer
1.9 YT Roller Rockers
Pacemaker extracters
2.5 inch exhaust
Mail order tune

I dynoed 133 rwkw on a dyno dynamics dyno. Would hope for 140 when I eventually get a custom tune

[MACE]

I would think 151 rwkw for a manual with a custom tune would be about right.
I have a VT auto with
Aunger CAI
Lukey high flow air filter
69mm Throttle body
24mm plenum spacer
1.9 YT Roller Rockers
Pacemaker extracters
2.5 inch exhaust
Mail order tune

I dynoed 133 rwkw on a dyno dynamics dyno. Would hope for 140 when I eventually get a custom tune

Got to be happy with that figure

[vxcalais_01]

Mace, many people seem to be comfortably using ur 69mm throttle body. Theres been alot of bad press on the larger throttle for previous models, is this not the case for the ecotecs ? Something about leaning, or issues with transmission ???

[mking]

i had heaps of issues with my 69mm tb on my old vs (executive) put it on my new caprice (ecotec) and threw out first gear a bit, tune from delcowizzid and it goes as good as ever

[vxcalais_01]

i had heaps of issues with my 69mm tb on my old vs (executive) put it on my new caprice (ecotec) and threw out first gear a bit, tune from delcowizzid and it goes as good as ever

What Tune is that and on which Model Caprice ? Can it be done on a VX ?

[MACE]

Ok just to clear a few things up with larger throttle bodies.

Installing a larger throttle body on a VN-VR will not change the shifting characteristics on an auto.

This is because the characteristics of the standard vs aftermarket throttle bodies are the same compared. What I mean that per given throttle angle each one will give the same air flow characteristics, and will be in close proportion to each other. Yes the larger throttle body will definitely be able to flow more air overall then the factory item, however because the characteristics are similar the computer doesn’t have a problem.

However on the ecotec throttle bodies this isn’t the case as this charactertic is different when you compare the standard throttle body to an aftermarket one. The is because the factory item has “humps” inside to archive a desired throttle characteristic (dulling throttle response). Where as the after market item machine these humps right out which are a restriction, however this results in new flow characteristic that are not in proportion with each other especially under light load where the difference is greatest. As a result the computer may get caught out at times because of it depending on your driving style. If you have the line pressures in your auto increases then it won’t be a problem.

We’ve made improvements in this area through supplying things like the restrictor etc. In regards to the throttle bodies we sell, many people are happy with them small number though feel that there is room for improvement in this area. In which case we can now supply memcals to suit which sorts it out completely.

Hope this clears up a few things.

Cheers
Steve

sdfsdfsaf dsafsdaf

[vxcalais_01]

thanks Mace, great explanation

[mking]

What Tune is that and on which Model Caprice ? Can it be done on a VX ?

lols the one in my sig and pic, its a vs with an ecotec in it, not sure about the vx man dunno about your ecu youd have to ask delco or greenfoam

[TI3VOM]

MACE have you got in contact with the customer by now to find out what it really made on the dyno I am interested but yet I am surprised that you posted this thread up saying the he had made 151rwkw It seems like you posted this up trying to get some suckers to buy your product hoping that they would make 100+ something rwkw the only reason I think this is that once someone realised that it was in HP and posted it up to question it you dissapered off the face of this thread. BUT DONT GET ME WRONG I REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT HE MADE THERE IS NO WAY THAT ITS ONLY 113 AT THE WHEELS FOR ALL THOSE MODS CONSIDERING THAT STOCK VT V6 AUTO'S MAKE SOMETHING LIKE 95-98 RWKW.
I AM VERY INTERESTED IN SOME OF YOUR PRODUCTS PLEASE FIND OUT IF POSSIBLE.
THANKS GLENN.

[MACE]

MACE have you got in contact with the customer by now to find out what it really made on the dyno I am interested but yet I am surprised that you posted this thread up saying the he had made 151rwkw It seems like you posted this up trying to get some suckers to buy your product hoping that they would make 100+ something rwkw the only reason I think this is that once someone realised that it was in HP and posted it up to question it you dissapered off the face of this thread. BUT DONT GET ME WRONG I REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT HE MADE THERE IS NO WAY THAT ITS ONLY 113 AT THE WHEELS FOR ALL THOSE MODS CONSIDERING THAT STOCK VT V6 AUTO'S MAKE SOMETHING LIKE 95-98 RWKW.
I AM VERY INTERESTED IN SOME OF YOUR PRODUCTS PLEASE FIND OUT IF POSSIBLE.
THANKS GLENN.

Hi Glenn,

Thanks for your inquiry.

In regards to your questions statements…

“MACE have you got in contact with the customer by now to find out what it really made on the dyno”

Not yet.

“I am interested but yet I am surprised that you posted this thread up saying the he had made 151rwkw”

I admitted I made a mistake earlier on in this thread no one is perfect.

“It seems like you posted this up trying to get some suckers to buy your product hoping that they would make 100+ something rwkw”

Yes we promote our products in a forum that we sponsor, I can’t see the problem with that. I’m not in the business of “sucking” people as reflected by the number of genuine happy customers on this forum alone, with similar products. We highly value that our customers (or potential customers) are happy and get what they’re after even if it means referring them to competitors, offering free postage on items which we’re behind in delivery, product refunds etc. I’m one to put my own money where my mouth in the interest customers and am not the in business of genuinely misinforming people for a sale, if that’s what you’re getting at

“the only reason I think this is that once someone realised that it was in HP and posted it up to question it you dissapered off the face of this thread”

As acknowledged early on in the thread I made mistake no one is perfect, so there was no hiding or excuses that were made on my part. I was also one of the last people to post in this thread until you did recently. If I wanted this thread gone, or had something to be ashamed of I would have deleted this thread all together. Given that we moderate this section of the forum it would take all but 5 seconds for this thread to have disappeared.

“BUT DONT GET ME WRONG I REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT HE MADE THERE IS NO WAY THAT ITS ONLY 113 AT THE WHEELS FOR ALL THOSE MODS CONSIDERING THAT STOCK VT V6 AUTO'S MAKE SOMETHING LIKE 95-98 RWKW.
I AM VERY INTERESTED IN SOME OF YOUR PRODUCTS PLEASE FIND OUT IF POSSIBLE.
THANKS GLENN.”

This graph is probably a bad example given the fact that even if we find out what it finally made no one will be able to tell us what the car exactly made before the mods. Admittedly I should have given the thread more though before starting it. As others have said a mainline is more conservative in power figures then a dyno dynamics items so I dare say that a standard ecotec, on a mainline dyno, would make around 80 something mark for arguments sake.

However if these mods don’t increase current power output by +30%, assuming the car is in good working order, or if you not happy with the performance improvement we’ll refund you your money. Obviously not after a year when you’re about the sell your car LOL but you get what I mean You can take this statement with a grain of salt however you only need to look on this forum alone to see what previous/current customers have to say about our products.

If you have any more questions please don’t hesitate to ask.

Kindest Regards,
Steve

[TI3VOM]

Cheers mate that all makes sense I will be looking into your products some more .

[MACE]

Cheers mate that all makes sense I will be looking into your products some more .

No probs G.C.Photography

If you have any more questions please don't hesitate to ask.

Cheers
Steve

[Raptorsc]

I have said it all before

The VY series 2 V6 ECOTEC auto I had made 134rwkw with high lift FIT rockers, extractors, twin cats and HSV exhaust system, synthetic oils, iridium plugs etc.

A number around 134 - 140rwkw is pretty much it from the bolt ons, but when you start from 114rwkw as I did then another 20 or so rwkw is actually a very decent gain.

Have continued to use and recommend MACE products ie high lift rockers (in particular) and I find the results are always there.

Anything much above 140rwkw needs reasonably close examination to be sure its not just a powerful dyno

[Hothousevys]

using dyno dynamics dyno i achieved 190rwhp ~140rwkw with following mods in an auto vy N/a ecotec

pacemaker extractors
2.5" cat back exhaust
1.9:1 high ratio rocker's
69mm TB
high flow panel filter
custom tune

are these figures accurate or ove-restimations