Mace Intercooler purpose and difference?

[Cashaz]

Hi,

I have seen what each of the 3 products do ( and watched video's), but in "lehmans" terms, what does the

MINI BLIZZARD INTERCOOLER KIT HOLDEN SUPERCHARGED 6 L67 - $1250
INTERMEDIATE INTERCOOLER KIT HOLDEN SUPERCHARGED 6 L67 - $1850
MEGA BLIZZARD INTERCOOLER KIT HOLDEN SUPERCHARGED 6 L67 - $1950

DO?... (Prices as per site and ebay.)

However, what exactly is the difference between each, what does one offer from the other?

In a sense, not just tempreture wise, but size and spec wise, what does each one have unique.

For example, If it were up to me I would buy the Mega as it sounds like the best ("MEGA") and what it can do, but If I was only running a 13psi setup I could just run a "Mini"

Just looking for any information.

Cheers.

[0081]

In short the bigger cooler can remove more heat from the are passing through it

Steve can give you some more info but at 13 psi if you where going to go W2A i think you could get away with the mini but if i was you i would go the int just so you have a bit extra up your sleeve. The mega will require some mods to the fire wall or k frame spacers

[Cashaz]

Do you know the exact difference and why the int and mega? Like a extra few cm??

Well if it's 100 more but gonna cost me then forget that

[MACE]

The main differences between the kits are size of the intercooler plate thicknesses.

Mini (25mm cooling plate)
Intermediate (52mm cooling plate)
Mega (58mm cooling plate)

As you go thicker the greater the cooling capacity.

We also have air to air intercooler plates as well just to give people more options

At the end of the day though it depends on what your requirements/constraints are

If you have any more questions please don't hesitate to ask.

Cheers
Steve

[Cashaz]

The main differences between the kits are size of the intercooler plate thicknesses.

Mini (25mm cooling plate)
Intermediate (52mm cooling plate)
Mega (58mm cooling plate)

As you go thicker the greater the cooling capacity.

We also have air to air intercooler plates as well just to give people more options

At the end of the day though it depends on what your requirements/constraints are

If you have any more questions please don't hesitate to ask.

Cheers
Steve

Thats cool mate, sounds easy enough, I knew the theory behind it I just thought there was more to it.

So I have seen that A2A plate, FIT sells them for >1,000.

Now exactly what is the theory behind that, for example
what does that do?
what does it change?
how much power does it give you?
when would you need to run an A2A cooler plate (how much power/psi would you need to push)?
also, what does it change on the intercooler that makes it the best?

I know they are basic and time wasting questions almost, but the way FIT explained it on their site confused the heck out of me.

Thanks mate

[MACE]

Hey Cashaz,

In regards to your questions/statements...

"That's cool mate, sounds easy enough, I knew the theory behind it I just thought there was more to it."
In regards to the W2A setups there it but that's just a gist of it

"Now exactly what is the theory behind that, for example
what does that do?
what does it change?
how much power does it give you?

when would you need to run an A2A cooler plate (how much power/psi would you need to push)?
also, what does it change on the intercooler that makes it the best?"

Check out our preliminary product info "sheet" below which should answer you questions. If you need clarification feel free to ask.

"I know they are basic and time wasting questions almost, but the way FIT explained it on their site confused the heck out of me."
It's all good, I'm happy to help

Cheers
Steve


MACE ENGINEERING – PRODUCT LISTINGS

AIR-TO-AIR INTERCOOLER PLATE FOR L67 SUPERCHARGED V6

KEY BENEFITS
o Make an easy 280-290kW with a custom tune
o Simple and reliable cooling of intake charge
o Run higher boost levels more safely
o Tough appearance of a front-mounted intercooler and chromed intake piping behind the front bumper


WHY
Harness the full potential of your L67 supercharged V6 Commodore with this unique air-to-air intercooler adaptor plate.

Designed and manufactured in Australia through an intensive 18 month development process, our air-to-air intercooler adaptor plates offer an extremely efficient, reliable way to reduce intake temperatures; resulting in higher air flow and shorter lag time than some other forms of intercooling.

WHAT
Our new air-to-air intercooler plates are cast from automotive grade alloy and feature a 70mm inlet and outlet for maximum airflow (perfectly matching our 69mm ported throttle body).

The plate is 52mm tall and fits between the factory blower and the blower manifold, clearing all obstacles within the standard engine bay; allowing for proper under-bonnet clearance.

In fact, our testing has shown that it’s easy to make between 280 and 290kW, simply through fitting our air-to-air intercooler adaptor plates together with a tune. This is over 65kW more than you could hope to make in a non-intercooled L67 application.

HOW
Used in conjunction with a front-mount intercooler, the adaptor plate receives the hot air from the supercharger, cycling it through the front-mount intercooler and back into the intake manifold mounted below. It’s a simple, efficient and reliable intercooling option.

Fitment of the air-to-air intercooler adaptor plate is simple for a general mechanic or the more experienced DIY enthusiast in the home garage; however a custom tune of your vehicle’s ECU will be required.

We offer an optional fitment kit to make the installation of our L67 air-to-air intercooler adaptor a breeze, including all the bits you’ll need to get moving. However, if you’re planning a custom installation, you won’t need to wear the additional cost for parts you’re not going to need.

GET MORE
Our L67 air-to-air intercooler adaptor plates really are the gateway to supercharged V6 performance never before known.

With an easy 280-290kW achievable with the adaptor alone, 300kW+ is possible with further modifications and porting.

[Cashaz]

Ah sweet so it can make a difference, wouldn't mind seeing some pics and testimonials from your customers. Intercooler and A2A plate is a future thing (by future a month or so).

Another saga you can help me with steve, is the rocker side.

I will copy and paste a qn I had but I think it is more dedicated to you.

"specs of what it does, I mean I do not know why and what the difference is between

High ratio 1.9:1 (inc pushrod) and 1.9:8 does, I understand there is a specification difference, but I need a actual explanation what difference it makes in pro's and con's. (more fuel consumption, risk of blowing something, greater wear and tear to motor)", I understand giving me the Cons is actually not such a good sales technique, but honesty is what secures sales, (for me anyways).

Basically I want to know what rockers can do for the car, and what the ratio's do differently, also how does it act with your 10psi pulley system and your Int Cooler setup.

This is basically not just for my knowledge but for all L67 owners.

Basically these questiobns are just trying to get the best bang for my buck, basically I have looked around, however, I am also looking for knowledge and actual results and information about the product.

Alot of performance shops/engineers sell a product and for a good price, but fail to tell the customer what is different, I being once ignorant, was in the similar situaition, where I could have spent $100 and gained alot more (due to not asking) i missed out as the supplier just wanting to get me in and out.

[MACE]

“Ah sweet so it can make a difference, wouldn't mind seeing some pics and testimonials from your customers. Intercooler and A2A plate is a future thing (by future a month or so).”

For testimonials you on have to look at our section of this forum, this forum in general, our facebook page and our site

Mace Engineering Group | Facebook

Testimonials - Mace Engineering Group

Good news travels fast bad news travels faster. Given the lack of bad news I’d like to think we’re doing ok

“Another saga you can help me with steve, is the rocker side.

I will copy and paste a qn I had but I think it is more dedicated to you.

specs of what it does, I mean I do not know why and what the difference is between”

Basically the higher the ratio the greater lift at the valve allowing the engine to breath better.

“High ratio 1.9:1 (inc pushrod) and 1.9:8 does, I understand there is a specification difference, but I need a actual explanation what difference it makes in pro's and con's. (more fuel consumption, risk of blowing something, greater wear and tear to motor )", I understand giving me the Cons is actually not such a good sales technique, but honesty is what secures sales, (for me anyways).”

Great minds think alike I personally strive to be transparent about our products to enthusiasts, based on their needs/requirements, such that we can insure that they get what they’re after. I’m more then happy to answer questions, if I’m asked (I’m no mind reader LOL!).

The pros with rockers is that they offer quick and easy genuine bolt on gains, with minimal impact on fuel economy (depending on how it’s driven). The cons well there really isn’t any with the exception of tired valve springs, (on cars which have travelled a fair few k’s), may cause the valves to float in rare instances. If not treated (replaced) will eventually fail.

“Basically I want to know what rockers can do for the car, and what the ratio's do differently, also how does it act with your 10psi pulley system and your Int Cooler setup.”

As mentioned before, they allow the engine to breath much better much easier. In the case on an L67 with a 10psi (3.4”) pulley I would stick with the 1.9:1 ratio rockers, if you plan on running even more boost with an intercooler then I would go the 1.98:1’s

“Basically these questiobns are just trying to get the best bang for my buck, basically I have looked around, however, I am also looking for knowledge and actual results and information about the product.

Alot of performance shops/engineers sell a product and for a good price, but fail to tell the customer what is different, I being once ignorant, was in the similar situaition, where I could have spent $100 and gained alot more (due to not asking) i missed out as the supplier just wanting to get me in and out.”

I certainly understand where you’re coming from, which is why we encourage people to ask questions about our products, so they make sure they get what they’re after

Cheers
Steve

[Cashaz]

Well that says it all Steve I am always going to want more from my engine so I'll go with the 1.9:8 but say I never up my psi from 10 are there any implications or are you basing cost as the difference for both?

[MACE]

If you never plan on going past 10psi on an M90 I would stick with the 1.9's from a bang for buck perspective

Cheers
Steve

[Cashaz]

If you never plan on going past 10psi on an M90 I would stick with the 1.9's from a bang for buck perspective

Cheers
Steve

Fair call knowing me I will never be content haha, fornow I am eyeing the 10psi upgrade, just once I fix my belt screech (replace all dummies, auto tensioner and coupler to stop it rattling (by the way do you sell couplers for the s/c, worth asking)) once i fix that and I get myself a good boost guage (if you know of any reliable ones let me know) to see if i am losing vac then Ill got ahead.

Ill make sure everything on that engine is 100% before I start doing any major mods, its the 98% problem, people have an issue with the motor and mod it, will have a greater problem, for instance if I put a 10psi pulley on with my s/c rattling (damaged coupler) due to 10% more shaft spin (apparently) it will damage the internals causing more problems.

Anyways Ill get back to you when I fix these issues.

Thanks Steve for your advice Ill hit you up if I have more qns,

Andy

[MACE]

"Fair call knowing me I will never be content haha, fornow I am eyeing the 10psi upgrade, just once I fix my belt screech (replace all dummies, auto tensioner and coupler to stop it rattling (by the way do you sell couplers for the s/c, worth asking)) once i fix that and I get myself a good boost guage (if you know of any reliable ones let me know) to see if i am losing vac then Ill got ahead."

In all honesty I would just stick to the the 1.9:1 ratio rockers and 10psi boost upgrade kit. This alone, in conjunction with a cat back exhaust, will eat LS1's for breakfast under real word conditions (between traffic light)

We also sell the couplers

As for a boost gauge I would recommend only recommend VDO gauges. Good enough for car companies (your current dash) good enough for aftermarket. Here is an example of one below though it doens't take into account vacuum but you get the idea.

VDO GENUINE TURBO BOOST GAUGE 0-30psi + FITTING KIT - eBay 4x4 Accessories, Exterior, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 17-Jul-10 08:59:46 AEST)

"Ill make sure everything on that engine is 100% before I start doing any major mods, its the 98% problem, people have an issue with the motor and mod it, will have a greater problem, for instance if I put a 10psi pulley on with my s/c rattling (damaged coupler) due to 10% more shaft spin (apparently) it will damage the internals causing more problems."

Smart man

"Anyways Ill get back to you when I fix these issues.

Thanks Steve for your advice Ill hit you up if I have more qns,

Andy"

No problem Andy.

Cheers
Steve

[Cashaz]

That is good to hear, sounds too good to be true, but then again it is possible, it would catch me on top end. Mind you what mod components make substansial tourqe?

Sounds good 10 Psi 1.9:1 rockers (will I need those pushrods you supply for 100$, because it pushes it up to 595 which the 1.9:8 are 100$ on top of that therefore 200$+ and I am getting something I can play with), also what are those pushrods for?

Anyhow what are the 1.9:1 rockers good up for in terms psi, as in when will I need to change the rockers in order to see substanstial power/tourqe difference according to my higher psi pulley (if you know what i mean?)

May I ask what your couplers are going for ($ wise)? And are they Polyuthurine Material not nylon which is what stock s/c m90s use supposably.

Nice, wish VDO had a bit of character with their guages but then again, if they work I am happy.

Cheers,
Andy

[MACE]

“That is good to hear, sounds too good to be true, but then again it is possible, it would catch me on top end. Mind you what mod components make substansial tourqe?”

Top end, past a 100ks, a modded LS1 would start reeling in on the L67 but under real work driving conditions at around legal speeds I think you’ll be hard pressed to find many cars on the street that can keep up with an L67, more so with bolt on mods. Bare in mind we make and supply parts for LS1,2 and 3 etc so I’ve been in a few

“Sounds good 10 Psi 1.9:1 rockers (will I need those pushrods you supply for 100$, because it pushes it up to 595 which the 1.9:8 are 100$ on top of that therefore 200$+ and I am getting something I can play with), also what are those pushrods for?”

If you stick with the 1.9:1 ratio rockers then you won’t need pushrods. The 1.98:1 ratio rockers are $55 onto of the 1.9:1 ratio rockers with pushrods. The main reason for the pushrods is to increase clearance between them and the cylinder head, as the higher the ratio the closer the pushrods get to the cylinder heads.

“Anyhow what are the 1.9:1 rockers good up for in terms psi, as in when will I need to change the rockers in order to see substanstial power/tourqe difference according to my higher psi pulley (if you know what i mean?)"

If you want to play it safe I would just stick with the 1.9:1 ratio rockers as they are a good all rounder.

“May I ask what your couplers are going for ($ wise)? And are they Polyuthurine Material not nylon which is what stock s/c m90s use supposably.”

We sell both styles of couplers; however I’m more for the genuine couplers, despite not lasting as long as the aftermarket couplers. The reason for this is that are more forgiving to any shock loading then the stiffer aftermarket items. This can be a problem as there have been cases where the stiffer couplers have broken the pins which locate the coupler in place. As for prices we sell the genuine and aftermarket couplers $40 and $55 respectively.

“Nice, wish VDO had a bit of character with their guages but then again, if they work I am happy.”

You mean something like this

SWOOSH 52mm JDM Sound Active TURBO BOOST (Psi) Gauge - eBay Other, Gauges, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 15-Jul-10 01:15:32 AEST)

To avoid buying a gauge twice, best to stick with a quality accurate item first time round. Another brand which is good is Stewart Warner

Cheers
Steve

[Cashaz]

Well that is pretty much summed up,

I need to contact you about your coupler on pm, genuine sounds a little more trustworthy it seems then.

Stewart Warner Gauge 114547-Vacuum/Boost White 2 5/8" - eBay Boost Gauges, Gauges, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 13-Aug-10 11:56:28 AEST)

looks good to me.

Cheers,
Andy

[MACE]

Not a worry

Cheers
Steve

[Cashaz]

Hey Steve,

Needing your expertise here, I was meaning to ask you And keep in mind my l67 is completly stock untill coupler fix

The exhaust set up i am thinking of is a full redback twin 2.5" exhaust (any brand suggestions) Inc. Y piece to I think the pacies or pacies competion/comp (apparently there is a difference, the exhaust place I went to said it is especially made for l67 or supercharged engines, don't know if he is pulling my leg or not).

what type of tone does the l67 give off compared to a standard ecotec , I had a ecotec 3.8l S and a single 2.5" with pacies and sounded ok a little tingy.

Now do the mods we have discussed rockers, cooler change the tone and flow of air?

Trying to see what first after 10psi, because everyone has said before rockers you will find
more gains in an exhaust, your views?

Cheers,
andy

[MACE]

Hey Andy,

In regards to your questions/statements...

“The exhaust set up i am thinking of is a full redback twin 2.5" exhaust (any brand suggestions) Inc. Y piece to I think the pacies or pacies competion/comp (apparently there is a difference, the exhaust place I went to said it is especially made for l67 or supercharged engines, don't know if he is pulling my leg or not).”

If you can get a orphan HSV setup of a clubsport, GTS of that vintage it would be idea. Real hard to find know missed out on one myself recently Sound the best, work well and are quite. Second to that option would be a redback exhaust system. As for the extrators I wouldn’t worry about these for now unless you get it intercooled. You can get a larger set of pacemaker extrators to suit the VT-VY cars, but not the VN-VS ones. Only Difillipo make a larger set to suit supercharged commodores for in the VN-VS range from my understanding.

“what type of tone does the l67 give off compared to a standard ecotec , I had a ecotec 3.8l S and a single 2.5" with pacies and sounded ok a little tingy.”

The note is similar to that of an ecotec, when it comes to bolt ons, but the induction/supercharger sound is quite different and prominent when they’re spun harder

“Now do the mods we have discussed rockers, cooler change the tone and flow of air?”

They will, but will have more of an impact on the induction sound.

“Trying to see what first after 10psi, because everyone has said before rockers you will find
more gains in an exhaust, your views?”

I would probably lean towards a cat back exhaust in this instance but there really isn’t all that much difference in gains between the two.

Cheers
Steve

[Cashaz]

Ok mate,

Finally I have some questions furthurmore

Where abouts are you located?

Can I come to you for mechanic work, for example can I get you to install your purchased items for me, for instance I buy a cooler, or rockers are you able to install, as I do not have a lot of time for a DIY project.

I need my coupler fixed before anything, if your able or someone with MACE (a mechanic with experiance as most of you are, if there is more than 1 person), would you be able to help me with that?

Whats the deal with a ported blower, you have on your site to achieve the results, you need a bunch of mods inc. a ported blower, Do youse specialise in this or do I need to see a specialist, whats the price on that?

Do you know any good, trusted, bang for buck exhaust places, last one I went to I was not to impressed, good price though, but left bolts unscrewed, rattled constantly underneath the VT, Poor effort.

Well if you are able to give me a hand with that, wouldn't mind starting of the statesman, I am thinking full mace as I dont like mixing stuff up e.g. FIT, MACE, etc.

My mechanic/panelbeater who is a trusted future father-in-law (to be), is not 100% sure with L67 M90 only serviced one, and mine is the only one he has really worked on fixing up, so needing a little more experiance when coming to modifying it.

Thanks mate
Andy

[Cashaz]

Spoke to Glenroy exhausts if you have heard of them also

Quoted
$650 for a twin 2.5" straight through mild steel custom made exhaust (he agreed inc. installation)
$750 for pacemakers (I asked for pacemaker comp) - (he agreed inc. installation)
$200 - $300 for 2 hi-flow cats ea

he said about 2,000 with installation.

Is that fair price, I also asked him about the setup you were talking about and he said "He didn't know"

I suspected he didn't really know what was the best setup with constant 10 second silences and pages turning.

By The way, is there a difference with Pacemaker v Hi-tech v Genies, when I have run 3 different exhaust places, they claim they are one is better than each other.

Also I suspect I will be cooling it soon hopefully, I want to make it an easy-painless once off, defillipo are apparently overpriced and you have to go through him. Is there a consequence to getting a certain extractor vs intermediate cooler?

Cheers,
Andy

[MACE]

Ok mate,

Finally I have some questions furthurmore

Where abouts are you located?

Can I come to you for mechanic work, for example can I get you to install your purchased items for me, for instance I buy a cooler, or rockers are you able to install, as I do not have a lot of time for a DIY project.

I need my coupler fixed before anything, if your able or someone with MACE (a mechanic with experiance as most of you are, if there is more than 1 person), would you be able to help me with that?

Whats the deal with a ported blower, you have on your site to achieve the results, you need a bunch of mods inc. a ported blower, Do youse specialise in this or do I need to see a specialist, whats the price on that?

Do you know any good, trusted, bang for buck exhaust places, last one I went to I was not to impressed, good price though, but left bolts unscrewed, rattled constantly underneath the VT, Poor effort.

Well if you are able to give me a hand with that, wouldn't mind starting of the statesman, I am thinking full mace as I dont like mixing stuff up e.g. FIT, MACE, etc.

My mechanic/panelbeater who is a trusted future father-in-law (to be), is not 100% sure with L67 M90 only serviced one, and mine is the only one he has really worked on fixing up, so needing a little more experiance when coming to modifying it.

Thanks mate
Andy

“Ok mate,

Finally I have some questions furthurmore

Where abouts are you located?”

We located in the northern suburbs of Melbourne, Lalor to be exact.

“Can I come to you for mechanic work, for example can I get you to install your purchased items for me, for instance I buy a cooler, or rockers are you able to install, as I do not have a lot of time for a DIY project.”

You normally can, however we’re flat out with other developments at the moment. So I would have to kindly decline the offer. In saying this though any trusted mechanic can install the smaller bolt on products with ease. Otherwise we do have a few workshops across the country that we can refer you to.

“I need my coupler fixed before anything, if your able or someone with MACE (a mechanic with experiance as most of you are, if there is more than 1 person), would you be able to help me with that?”

As above, however if you let us know were you’re located then we can refer you onto someone who can do the work for you.

“Whats the deal with a ported blower, you have on your site to achieve the results, you need a bunch of mods inc. a ported blower, Do youse specialise in this or do I need to see a specialist, whats the price on that?”

We do offer blower porting, however would recommend considering this as one of your later mods, inconjuction with say and intercooler. The price to CNC port a blower starts from around $330.

“Do you know any good, trusted, bang for buck exhaust places, last one I went to I was not to impressed, good price though, but left bolts unscrewed, rattled constantly underneath the VT, Poor effort.”

Yes these guys

ABC Exhaust & Towbar Centre

They’re not a fancy shop BUT they do quality work at very reasonable prices.

“Well if you are able to give me a hand with that, wouldn't mind starting of the statesman, I am thinking full mace as I dont like mixing stuff up e.g. FIT, MACE, etc.”

I can certainly give you some advice for tacking each job so that’s not a problem

“My mechanic/panelbeater who is a trusted future father-in-law (to be), is not 100% sure with L67 M90 only serviced one, and mine is the only one he has really worked on fixing up, so needing a little more experiance when coming to modifying it.”

I think you guys need to give yourselves some more credit. If you pace yourselves and think things through clearly I’m fairly confident you’ll be right. The fact that your father in-law to be is a panel beater as well means that he’d probably do an excellent clean job at install a front mount and pipe work etc.

Spoke to Glenroy exhausts if you have heard of them also

Quoted
$650 for a twin 2.5" straight through mild steel custom made exhaust (he agreed inc. installation)
$750 for pacemakers (I asked for pacemaker comp) - (he agreed inc. installation)
$200 - $300 for 2 hi-flow cats ea

he said about 2,000 with installation.

Is that fair price, I also asked him about the setup you were talking about and he said "He didn't know"

I suspected he didn't really know what was the best setup with constant 10 second silences and pages turning.

By The way, is there a difference with Pacemaker v Hi-tech v Genies, when I have run 3 different exhaust places, they claim they are one is better than each other.

Also I suspect I will be cooling it soon hopefully, I want to make it an easy-painless once off, defillipo are apparently overpriced and you have to go through him. Is there a consequence to getting a certain extractor vs intermediate cooler?

Cheers,
Andy

That price is a fair amount.

You can spend half that amount and easily achieve +80% of the result of the setup and it would probably be quieter.

The custom twin price is good (look for an off the shelf solution for less price), however to keep costs you can use an extractor like the one below

HOLDEN COMMODORE VS ECOTEC 3.8 V6 HEADERS EXTRACTORS - eBay Extractors, Exhausts, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 22-Jul-10 15:26:28 AEST)

And orphan factory LS1 cats would be the way to go. Sure they won’t flow as much as the aftermarket setup however they’re cheaper and will sound better.

In regards to exhaust systems though PM Not_An_Abba_Fan for some other prices.

In summary though, if you’re planning on having the fastest supercharge V6 in the country then 2k is not unreasonable. If you want a quite, quick bang for buck system for your streeter you should be able to do better on that price by using different components based on your requirements.

Cheers
Steve

[MACE]

If you're after a custom tune and are in Melb I would highly recommend these guys.

Electronic Automotive

But if you stick to bolt on mods (excluding things like intercooler) then you won't have anything to worry about.

Cheers
Steve

[Cashaz]

So the ebay extractors will do the job as good as any other manufacturer? as good as pacemakers, genies?? and will be fine for later mods such as a cooler?

Fair comment, too bad you are over busy, wish I could just deal with youse and have a full custom mace statesman products and serviced.

I wouldn't mind tuning because I know you can always have a better tune, to make the car run nicely.

Wouldn't mind finding out who can do the coupler for me to be honest, Ill arrange something asap to get it fixed.

I dont know what HI-Flow CATS these guys are supplying I wish I could just find everything I need.

TWIN 2.25" - 2.5" would be sufficiant anyways, but mate need to keep in touch to be honest, *IF you had the time* Id prefer you/you guys doing my labour as with all supplied information, my money is best spent with the guys im getting the parts from, and you have been more than helpful.

[Cashaz]

Spoke to ABC

Wants to install just a single redback exhaust system with y-piece for the 2 cats 2.5" - 380 - 400
Pacemakers - 880
with metal cats x2 - 600

He said all up 1,700 - 2,000, he mentioned that there is no twin exhaust system for the v6 l67.

[Cashaz]

haha not to worry steve all under controll 1650 full twin 2.5" exhaust custom made system, 2x mangaflow 100cpi and pacemakers, happy with that...

Keep in touch for the pulley and rockers and coupler too :S

And looking at your CAI system.