Roller rockers useless?

[junkwaffle]

I got told today that any high ratio roller rockers are useless because from VR models and upwards come factory with them? And even if i did get them i'd have to do cam work.
And i was told this by a mechanic, who would presumebly want my money.

Is he honest or in need of a mental home?

[somefool]

MACE wouldnt design and make them for engines that dont need them.

[Jesterarts]

Mental home.

1. Higher ratio roller rockers worked a treat on my old VX
2. The whole point of High Ratio RR's is they are a cheap, good bang for buck, alternative for a cam. They can't give you quite as good a performance boost as a cam, but for a basic bolt on they are the beez neez.

So yes, the mechanic that told you this is in need of a mental home.

[GenReaper]

Gains are minimal compared to a cam, better off using the money to install a cam that does the same as the rockers would and more.
will require a tune tho.

Rockers no tune.

[junkwaffle]

I also priced how much it would cost to fix my bloody annoying tapets or lifters, whichever one is making that horrible noise and he said it's useless because there's not much point putting in new lifters and keeping an old cam. Might as well get a reconditioned ecotec?
What exactly do the roller rockers do?

[WogBoyz]

or go both get some high ratio rockers and a cam to suit

[Jesterarts]

I also priced how much it would cost to fix my bloody annoying tapets or lifters, whichever one is making that horrible noise and he said it's useless because there's not much point putting in new lifters and keeping an old cam. Might as well get a reconditioned ecotec?
What exactly do the roller rockers do?

RR's increase the lift of the values, so they open more and allow more gases in/out more freely. Durations are unchanged with RR's though, this is where a cam comes into it's own.

[immortality]

Gains are minimal compared to a cam, better off using the money to install a cam that does the same as the rockers would and more.
will require a tune tho.

Rockers no tune.

it really depends on what people want. the right high ratio roller rockers can give better gains then some small duration cam packages (read crow stage 1 and 2 etc).

if you want to make large power gains and alter the engine characteristics then a cam is the way to go. if you want a reasonable power increase but don't want the hassle that a cam involves and want to maintain factory style engine characteristics then rockers (as well as the other great range of bolt-ons for the V6) are a good option

[VS_Pete_1]

Thats why I went with R/R and have taken out the SS cai and got a mace cai kit and are very happy with both.
Good bang for buck.
Thanks Steve for your help.
Cheers Pete.
PS. Steve I added washers on to the lid looks better I think.

[nathanVY]

it really depends on what people want. the right high ratio roller rockers can give better gains then some small duration cam packages (read crow stage 1 and 2 etc).

if you want to make large power gains and alter the engine characteristics then a cam is the way to go. if you want a reasonable power increase but don't want the hassle that a cam involves and want to maintain factory style engine characteristics then rockers (as well as the other great range of bolt-ons for the V6) are a good option

So are you saying that RRs can make better gains than a smaller cam package, so it would only be viable to go with some sort of space-flight-equipped-extreme cam package and not RRs. but then you of course have to factor in a tune etc.

I'm sussing this out for my v6, can anyone recommend a good cam package and explain how it would affect drive-ability, power, torque, etc

sorry if this is hijacking your thread? sort of ontopic though

[soop]

Stage 3 crow isn't exactly spastic. Frankly its a starter point IMO.

[MR_VX]

Stage 3 crow isn't exactly spastic. Frankly its a starter point IMO.

so you wouldnt recommend a stage 1-2??? im thinking about a cam/RR upgrade for my ecotec with the raptor kit and sugessions?

[soop]

I didn't say that.

But if you're going to run a supercharger go at least a Stage 3.
Also look into crane cams. Better cams from everything i've heard.

[MR_VX]

arr righto then, would u say a tune on the factory ecu or a aftermarket ecu to suit the rest?

[soop]

Just message nicefrog on ebay tell him what you want and he'll send you a custom tuned memcal to suit for $70.

[immortality]

If you have a supercharger get a cam to suit. don't use a n/a cam.

if your intent on a cam, get the cam first and then get rockers (with the ratio) that will give you the max lift as dictated by your head combination.

[MR_VX]

Just message nicefrog on ebay tell him what you want and he'll send you a custom tuned memcal to suit for $70.

shit i was told to go to chip torque $800 later for a memcal installed

[soop]

I wouldn't touch chiptorque with a 10ft barge poll with a rubber on the end. Just me though.

[MR_VX]

bahaha lol to late for me now lol

[VS_Pete_1]

Was that dyno tuned memcal?

[vxcalais_01]

RR's increase the lift of the values, so they open more and allow more gases in/out more freely. Durations are unchanged with RR's though, this is where a cam comes into it's own.

Rockers affect duration as well it has to, theres no way the valve can only slap up and down at that point of lift, it has to ride along the duration curvature as well if you know what i mean. But its not as much as what can be designed into a cam. High ratio rockers and cam are the best, as both have strengths that the other other hasn't.

[immortality]

Rockers affect duration as well it has to, theres no way the valve can only slap up and down at that point of lift, it has to ride along the duration curvature as well if you know what i mean. But its not as much as what can be designed into a cam. High ratio rockers and cam are the best, as both have strengths that the other other hasn't.

unfortunately no. rockers change the lift ratio only. they do not change when the valve lifts off the seat and when it is put down. with higher ratio rockers the valve just lifts faster to a higher total lift figure and then closes faster. basically it lets the cylinder breathe better sooner then with the stock rocker.

[one_and_only2004]

shit i was told to go to chip torque $800 later for a memcal installed

That's because you have a VX - no memcal to just swap out in that computer.

Rockers are alright, but honestly they hold nothing to a cam. I wouldn't be making the power I do now with just a set of rockers.

As for chiptorque - I couldn't recommend them enough. All I've had is good help and decent gains from dealing with them

[Cashaz]

Food for thought, this was a discussion between myself and Mace (Steve)

High ratio 1.9:1 (inc pushrod) and 1.9:8 does, I understand there is a specification difference, but I need a actual explanation what difference it makes in pro's and con's. (more fuel consumption, risk of blowing something, greater wear and tear to motor )", I understand giving me the Cons is actually not such a good sales technique, but honesty is what secures sales, (for me anyways).”

Great minds think alike I personally strive to be transparent about our products to enthusiasts, based on their needs/requirements, such that we can insure that they get what they’re after. I’m more then happy to answer questions, if I’m asked (I’m no mind reader LOL!).

The pros with rockers is that they offer quick and easy genuine bolt on gains, with minimal impact on fuel economy (depending on how it’s driven). The cons well there really isn’t any with the exception of tired valve springs, (on cars which have travelled a fair few k’s), may cause the valves to float in rare instances. If not treated (replaced) will eventually fail.

“Basically I want to know what rockers can do for the car, and what the ratio's do differently, also how does it act with your 10psi pulley system and your Int Cooler setup.”

As mentioned before, they allow the engine to breath much better much easier. In the case on an L67 with a 10psi (3.4”) pulley I would stick with the 1.9:1 ratio rockers, if you plan on running even more boost with an intercooler then I would go the 1.98:1’s
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Just thought, seeing it has been covered before

[MACE]

Been meaning to add to this thread for a while now just never gotten around to contributing to it LOL. Fortunately people have been able to really help each other in this thread with little input from myself but will contribute to the following

I also priced how much it would cost to fix my bloody annoying tapets or lifters, whichever one is making that horrible noise and he said it's useless because there's not much point putting in new lifters and keeping an old cam. Might as well get a reconditioned ecotec?
What exactly do the roller rockers do?

You’ll find that if you run longer pushrods or linish/machine down the pedestals then it will most likely cure a lazy lifter

RR's increase the lift of the values, so they open more and allow more gases in/out more freely. Durations are unchanged with RR's though, this is where a cam comes into it's own.

Depends where the duration at 0.05” of lift is measured. For arguments sake if it’s measured at the valve then there will certainly be a measureable difference in duration

Stage 3 crow isn't exactly spastic. Frankly its a starter point IMO.

It depends on the application/requirements. Sadly there is no “one cam fits all”

shit i was told to go to chip torque $800 later for a memcal installed

I wouldn't touch chiptorque with a 10ft barge poll with a rubber on the end. Just me though.

Chiptorque are excellent at what they do and have very clever people on board and are one of the very few companies around that can reprogram the factory VX/VY V6 computers. They’re pricy though

That's because you have a VX - no memcal to just swap out in that computer.

Rockers are alright, but honestly they hold nothing to a cam. I wouldn't be making the power I do now with just a set of rockers.

As for chiptorque - I couldn't recommend them enough. All I've had is good help and decent gains from dealing with them

Selecting the right cam for the application will certainly work better then a set of rockers. However I just want to stress that everyone’s applications and budgets are different, of which it’s very important that people get clear early on as to what they’re after when they start modding their rides