Opel Commodore C

[Smitty]

GMH engineers also had a few other things go wrong on VB

we have brake issues with the then new alloy PBR calipers (like no brakes)
the tie-rods on pwr steering units failing (necessitating a recall)
and the ultimate foul.up

in swapping from LHD to RHD, something had to be reversed
like the HVAC unit! The unit fitted had to be turned over to go
into the RHD Aussie Commodore

the drain hole for the A/C ended up on the TOP of the unit
....oooops
(this was quietly fixed by dealers as ppl complained and brought the cars in with wet floors)

Warranty costs were a tad high on VB compared to HZ

[Wesuri]

correct me if im wrong but is that a non crossflow head in the 88 opel???

i think id prefer the opel version to the old vn commodore

You are correct. Omega 3000 was offered with three different 6cyl engines. There was the C30LE with 156 hp and C30NE (and 30NE earlier) with 177 hp. These were 12V uniside engines, just like the first CIH 6's from the mid 60's. Then there was a 24V C30SE engine with a crossflow head that had 204 hp.

Later Omega was also offered with (consumption and emission purposes) 2.6 liter uniside with the dual ram air intake known from the C30SE. There was a further homologation series done for the German DTM series, Omega EVO 500 was the result. The german tuning companies (Irmscher, Mantzel anc co.) offered also 3.6 12V and 4.0 24V versions. And then there was of course the Lotus Omega with twin turbos and 377 hp.

These are the top range of Omegas, the basic models had 2.0 ohc engines and rather crappy interiors. Omega also had a 2.4 liter cih4 engine and it has been popular tuning to cut the 24V cih6-head and place it on top of the four to make it a 16V. Exotic but rather expensive as it needs new cams etc. Opel itself raced 16V CIH4 crossflow heads but they are even more exotic and way more expensive. They were used in rallying in Ascona 400 and Manta 400 models. Now the german tuning house Risse offers the engines and parts.

Omega B was another thing, it no longer had straight-6 gasoline engines as they were replaced by V6's (2.5, 3.0 and 3.2). It still had a 2.5 I6 turbodiesel but that one came from BMW. Omega A also had a diesel, 4cyl that used the CIH block. This was also used in previous Rekords in the D, E1 and E2 generations (2.1, 2.3, 2.3TD).

[Smitty]

You are correct. Omega 3000 was offered with three different 6cyl engines. There was the C30LE with 156 hp and C30NE (and 30NE earlier) with 177 hp. These were 12V uniside engines, just like the first CIH 6's from the mid 60's. Then there was a 24V C30SE engine with a crossflow head that had 204 hp.

Later Omega was also offered with (consumption and emission purposes) 2.6 liter uniside with the dual ram air intake known from the C30SE. There was a further homologation series done for the German DTM series, Omega EVO 500 was the result. The german tuning companies (Irmscher, Mantzel anc co.) offered also 3.6 12V and 4.0 24V versions. And then there was of course the Lotus Omega with twin turbos and 377 hp.

These are the top range of Omegas, the basic models had 2.0 ohc engines and rather crappy interiors. Omega also had a 2.4 liter cih4 engine and it has been popular tuning to cut the 24V cih6-head and place it on top of the four to make it a 16V. Exotic but rather expensive as it needs new cams etc. Opel itself raced 16V CIH4 crossflow heads but they are even more exotic and way more expensive. They were used in rallying in Ascona 400 and Manta 400 models. Now the german tuning house Risse offers the engines and parts.

Omega B was another thing, it no longer had straight-6 gasoline engines as they were replaced by V6's (2.5, 3.0 and 3.2). It still had a 2.5 I6 turbodiesel but that one came from BMW. Omega A also had a diesel, 4cyl that used the CIH block. This was also used in previous Rekords in the D, E1 and E2 generations (2.1, 2.3, 2.3TD).

hahaha

all this talk of Omegas here being the new thing (on VE)

...not

[Wesuri]

Yes, Opel Omega A was made 1986-93 and the B generation 1994-2003. B had a facelift in 2000.

Since Omega production ended Opel didn't have a large (or any) rwd to offer. Vectra C was all there was until the Insignia A came out. Insignia is available in either fwd or 4wd. During the development of the Insignia there were rumours and speculation about Omega C and Holden imports but this is the situation now, horizon ahead is fuzzy... The new electric car proto Ampera (based on Chevy Volt) looks promising.

[ScoHar]

Its interesting to see that it looks like certain things did get carried over from opel to holden or vice versa, for instance the door locks, handles, window switches and rear pillar outer garnish all look like they're from VN-VS commodores.

[Wesuri]

That's because the VN-VS Commodores were based on Opel Senator B, which was based on Opel Omega A. Senator used extended Omega floorpan and they shared many parts. Holden stretched the Senator floorpan some and used many of the outer panels and smaller parts.

Opel Senator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Calaber]

Wesuri

I have to commend you on your knowledge of Commodore development in Australia. The Australian car industry has only comparitively recently started to spread its wings into significant overseas markets - prior to that it was of little interest to overseas people when it came to Australian designed and developed cars, but you have obviously kept in touch.

As you said, many of the VN body parts were simply carried over from the Opel, with the doors being a complete copy. The same thing applied to the VT series bodyshell. Both designs used the basic Opel design for the body structure, and adapted Australian front and rear ends to suit our market, and totally redesigned interiors. I think the Opel interior on the mid 80's designs was far better than the Holdens, but I have seen the 97=2003 Omega interiors and prefer the Holden design there.

[fuzzy2308]

i learnt lots of new things from this thred.
was it the opel b that also came out as a 4cyl?

[Wesuri]

Almost every Opel has been offered with a 4cyl engine. Few exceptions to this are Commodore that was only available with straight-6s and the Kapitän, Admiral and Diplomat trio. The 30's Super 6, Kapitän and Admiral had I6s and the later 60's and 70's K.A.D. models were either I6 or V8 (sbc). Omega B was offered wih many I4's, V6's and I6's. There was also a V8 model planned but sadly it never came reality.

Opel names it's generations pretty straightforward, starting from "A" and continuing from there without skipping letters. So there has been a B generation of many models, for example Kadett B, Ascona B, Manta B, Rekord B, Omega B, Admiral B, Kapitän B, Diplomat B, Commodore B, Corsa B, Vectra B...

Funny thing about the letters is that when Kadett was replaced by Astra in the Opel model palette the letters kept going on where Kadett left. So there are Kadetts from A to E (and the pre-war model) and Astras from F to H. I-generation should come out this year.

I think a few things that have generated a lot of interest - maybe more than any other thing - towards the Australian car industry, are the first two Mad Max movies . Seeing the Falcons every petrol-head wanted to know more. These movies and the Falcons certainly boosted up my interest. I think the first spark came from seeing some cool Utes, and later the 60's Monaros made me drool, they still do. The Opel-virus in me has made me searching more info about the Australian Commodores and also about Brazilian Chevy Opalas etc. But how to add one of each to the garage .

[88GreenVN]

PM sent on Holden history

[krijnen]

PM sent on Holden history

I have some pictures made of my 1984 E2 rekord and then of my 1991 south african rekord 2.0..they have the same mods made as these holden,s.
The south african rekord is very different and a lot stronger build than a european model, as the series went over from E1 to E2, opel did no changes at all.
Somewhere on this site i have made a photoalbum ,i can,t give you a direct link to it because i,m not too good at this.

If any questions remain after seeing this or you want more detailed photo,s of these stronger area,s just ask.

grtz, Jorg

[88GreenVN]

I have some pictures made of my 1984 E2 rekord and then of my 1991 south african rekord 2.0..they have the same mods made as these holden,s.
The south african rekord is very different and a lot stronger build than a european model, as the series went over from E1 to E2, opel did no changes at all.
Somewhere on this site i have made a photoalbum ,i can,t give you a direct link to it because i,m not too good at this.

If any questions remain after seeing this or you want more detailed photo,s of these stronger area,s just ask.

grtz, Jorg

There is some photos in your profile album.... will go for a look now

[Wesuri]

Hey 88GreenVN, I got the DVD you sent open with another machine, I guess mine was a bit outdated then. Tons of pics and other info there, thanks mate.

Krijnen! Howdy Jorg. How did you manage to get a South-African Rekord on your hands? Interesting pics, viewing them right now...

...ok. From what I saw the S.A. Rekord floorpan has an extra support behind the front stabilizer and along the driveshaft tunnel and on the front shock towers. I get the feeling that these are not very "deep" structural changes but rather something that can be welded to the euro Rekords as well. The basic geometry looks to be identical (floorpan, rear) with the exception of larger room for gearbox in the S.A. unit. Different rear diff and gearbox are another thing, they should be replaced on the euro Rekords. Commodore has a slightly larger diff than Rekord but it's still far from bomb-proof.

[krijnen]

Hey there,

I first replied to your question to the wrong guy..but still..

I have both a german and a south african rekord and guess what..the latter has the bodychanges factory done you are wondering for..

So..i took some pictures of both the cars and put them in a album here with some text..

Hope you,l find them (they are under VC model..not under miscellanious..very stupid i know) and get the info you want.

Greets ,Jorg (the Netherlands)

[woodywoodpeckerin02]

ive seen a 2door vk on ebay was a inport very funny looking at a 2door

[Wesuri]

Hola!
Found a pic taken last summer, my Commo C and my bro's Omega B. See any familiar lines?


also, my Omega A (right) and Rekord E in a similar comparison


a week ago I let my other Commo C go, swapped it for a -65 Opel Rekord A 2dr sedan, woohoo
here it is on the left next to my -63 Rekord P2 2dr sedan


still have the other Commo C & co


so many projects, so little time

At this time of the year it's again starting to snow and all that around here.

[Jo3_Blo]

Damn! How many do you got?

Interesting read though.

[Wesuri]

Heh, I've been slowly expanding my fleet whenever there's a good deal around. Old Opels are widely available in Finland and they are not too expensive either. The problem is, I'm nearly out of space for them. Outside they rot too efficiently and under-the-roof-space is limited. I guess every other enthusiast dreams of a gigantic garage. I have a few more not yet shown, -68 Rekord C delivery was my first and it probably is the last one I sell also. I have a -67 wagon mostly for spare parts and a -61 wagon that needs a lot of welding. There's also a -72 Kadett, pretty much an organ donor. Still "need" an Olympia Rekord (~1954), PI Rekord (-58), B Rekord (-66), D Rekord, E1 Rekord. And it wouldn't hurt if there was A Diplomat, GT, Blitz etc. also. And there are loads of other interesting manufacturers and models too, that's why I also collect small scale models, they much more space and cost friendly .

[Calaber]

How do you find any old cars that are still holding together with the Finnish climate? I would have thought that anything over about ten years old would have rotted away with rust - surely nothing from 1961 could still exist there?

With your collection, you could create an Opel museum. Does such a thing exist?

[Wesuri]

Well it's not THAT bad with the weather here. Biggest problem is that during winter they spread salt to the roads for deicing. Now they use more liquid salt and you can guess how it effects your car's body when you drive six months a year on these kinds of roads. On the northern regions salt is not used and even if the winter is longer there, say 9 months, the cars are much better preserved there. Of course the winter is not ideal condition for sheetmetal even without salt as the water condensing keeps surfaces moist longer. And the 5 month green winter time can often be rather wet too. But normally it's a great season like this year was.

Here's a pic from when I hauled the '61 home. The car doesn't look too bad but the floors and frames are mostly gone.


The '85 Rekord has also lost it's rear wheel arches and side skirts, thanks to salt.

Many old cars have survived, many have metalwork done several times to them. It all depends how popular the car model in question is. Many fine projects were lost when the price of scrap metal was at it's peak and you got close to 250eur for a car, sad.

There's no Opel specific museum here but there are many general ones. On different meetings and get-togethers you can see the whole wide model selection well represented.

[Wesuri]

Here's one more pic I found, a comparison between Commodore C and Opel Ascona C. This Ascona generation was also sold in Australia as Holden Camira. Ascona is great to drive and handles well but the engines are a bit on the crappy side and the car is a fwd.

[Jo3_Blo]

Wow thats great, you could always cheaply build a massive carport?

[Kadett-Rekord]

Hi @ all

I have read this story and am thrilled.
@ Wesuri
nice collection you have there.

I come from Germany and myself have a Rekord-E1 and a Rekord-E2 each station wagons.



The E1 gets this winter with a 305 SB Chevy.
Steering is already converted similar to that of Holden.

The E2 at einen 1.8i OHC and is being built next.

@ krijnen

you could post a few pictures from the South Africa Rekord, or send me, I would then show them.

I need pics from the South Africa Steering Rack.

Ths Guy has a English Holden-Chevrolet Senator Autokauf

[Jo3_Blo]

Ah mate, that looks sick..........

[Wesuri]

Hallo Kadett-Rekord! That's a very fine looking E1-Caravan you have there. The diesel hood and the low stance make a big difference.

I quite like the looks of E1, much better than E2 and even better than Commo C. It's almost like another C-model, with clear simple lines. There's a nice looking 4dr for sale here but too bad my Omega has taken all the money lately so have to pass.

Keep us updated on the engine swap, it sounds interesting.

Holden-Chevrolet Senator? What's that? South-African Chevy? Why Holden?
Interesting details there, the position of things on the dash as it's a rhd. The stuff located in the center have unchanged positions compared to lhd. And the heater(?) seems to be under the hood, possibly because the gearbox takes so much more space than in Opel.