Your thoughts on removing V8 Supercar Wings

[1991_Vn2nV]

As im sure most people have heard by now, they are looking at removing the rear wing to decrease downforce along with part of the front splitter or something as well...

This will in theory make for better more interesting racing as it will allow for easier overtaking.... As at present a V8 Supercar struggles to overtake on a corner as when it leaves the slipstream from behind the car in front, it loses downforce and therefore grip, making it too hard to overtake during cornering....

But at the same time this will obviously slow the cars down... What do you think? Good idea or bad?

[calais_304]

ooo this is a hard one.... but i'd say leave them on, it's just not v8 supercars without them

[Ripcell]

would make driving them a bitch, ide say to leave it on, would be a change for the worst if they removed it. it wouldnt be a race car then, people who own ricers take the wing off. would be a criminal thing to do to a big aussie car

[NickVR]

that would make it more dangerous racing and drive up costs of fixing cars. imagine how unstable they would become at high sppeds without the spoilers and splitters. bad idea i think and it just not gunna be the same having v8 supercars without the spoilers on them. just like them suggesting that bitsaremissing (mitsubishi) and toyota (sorry no funny name for this one) joining in. they wanna get on the band wagon cos they see the publicity and go i want some. just my 2c.

[azkwazere]

They only exert like 10newtons @ 200kmh or something to that effect, get rid of them......

aZk.

[greenfoam]

Anyone remeber seeing Dick Johnson have the mounts on his wing snap just as he went into caltex chase, he was on race cam at the time and cut loose with a few choice words as he went flying off the road in a 280? km/h spin

[Pretender]

The cars would only be slightly more unstable without them. Remember they don't go that fast to start with.
If Toyota and Mitsubishi joined in it would just be the same as the cars are so restricted under the current rules.
Why not go back to proper touring car racing and let the fast cars back in.
Holden and Ford would have to really fight for a win which would make it more entertaining. If they can't win they would have to wear it and improve their cars, not just ban the quicker cars this time.

[immortality]

removing the rear wings and front splitter would make it dangerous, watch the cars carefully next time at bathurst at the end of Conrod into the chase at 290kph+, watch how they move around with the wings etc. sure without wings etc their would be more overtaking but they would be much slower around the track also and as for Toycar and bitsaremissing, i don't believe they currently have a suitable platform to enter the V8supercar catergory, i.e. rear wheel drive, pushrod V8 engine etc i woulda thought maybe another American(dodge maybe, 300c) or possibly a European manufacturer as the 3rd contender.

[1991_Vn2nV]

The cars would only be slightly more unstable without them. Remember they don't go that fast to start with.
If Toyota and Mitsubishi joined in it would just be the same as the cars are so restricted under the current rules.
Why not go back to proper touring car racing and let the fast cars back in.
Holden and Ford would have to really fight for a win which would make it more entertaining. If they can't win they would have to wear it and improve their cars, not just ban the quicker cars this time.

Wat you mean not that quick? 0-100 in 4 seconds flat is pretty fast imo...

The thing with the 3rd contender is... Mitsubishi want to but cant afford to... Toyota can afford to, but dont really want to.

Imo if there is a 3rd contender they should ditch the 5.0L V8's... Make the cars run the engines they do in performance production states... i.e. Holden with a 6.0L LS2, Ford get their 5.4L and Toyota or Chrysler get their own as well, whatever size that may be.

[Pretender]

Wat you mean not that quick? 0-100 in 4 seconds flat is pretty fast imo...

The thing with the 3rd contender is... Mitsubishi want to but cant afford to... Toyota can afford to, but dont really want to.

Imo if there is a 3rd contender they should ditch the 5.0L V8's... Make the cars run the engines they do in performance production states... i.e. Holden with a 6.0L LS2, Ford get their 5.4L and Toyota or Chrysler get their own as well, whatever size that may be.

I was referring to speed. 0 - 100 in 4 seconds is quick by road car standards but not in a race car. The increment 100 - 200 though is very quick.
As a benchmark, the top rally cars hit 200 in under 5 seconds.

Bathurst at 290 is fast enough but it is the only track where they can reach anywhere near this speed.

I just think the V8 Supercar Series has been strangled by the current rules.

I would love to see the open and fast production car racing again with as many brands taking part.

[1991_Vn2nV]

I was referring to speed. 0 - 100 in 4 seconds is quick by road car standards but not in a race car. The increment 100 - 200 though is very quick.
As a benchmark, the top rally cars hit 200 in under 5 seconds.

Bathurst at 290 is fast enough but it is the only track where they can reach anywhere near this speed.

I just think the V8 Supercar Series has been strangled by the current rules.

I would love to see the open and fast production car racing again with as many brands taking part.

0-200 in under 5 seconds? Are you sure?

The F1 cars do 0-200 in 4 seconds... No way would a rally car be almost equivalent to an F1 car in acceleration?

[immortality]

I was referring to speed. 0 - 100 in 4 seconds is quick by road car standards but not in a race car. The increment 100 - 200 though is very quick.
As a benchmark, the top rally cars hit 200 in under 5 seconds.

Bathurst at 290 is fast enough but it is the only track where they can reach anywhere near this speed.

I just think the V8 Supercar Series has been strangled by the current rules.

I would love to see the open and fast production car racing again with as many brands taking part.

Sounds a bit quick, 200kph in 5sec??? the other thing to remember is that rally cars aren't geared to hit 300kph, hell, they probably don't get over 200kph much especially in the twisty gravel stuff. the other thing about removing the wings & splitters is that it would reduce braking performance greatly so instead of the V8 SC going flat through the chase they would be having to lift already and applying the breaks a lot earlier. the reason the V8 SC aren't that quick form 0 -100 is probably cause the Engines actually have a narrow powerband which is high in the rev range(5500 - 7500rpm) and the fact that they use a close ratio box which tend to have a long first gear i.e. they hit 100kph in first and when they get the green light they have to keep the revs high otherwise they tend to bog which means wheelspin and a slowish 0 -100 time

[Pretender]

0-200 in under 5 seconds? Are you sure?

The F1 cars do 0-200 in 4 seconds... No way would a rally car be almost equivalent to an F1 car in acceleration?

Absolutely. Most of the top level rally cars are in fact quicker than F1 cars to 100 but some are slightly slower 100 - 200. The quickest I've seen was 3.4 0-200

They tend to have a top speed of only 230km/h because of the gearing.
In the 80s the rules were changed because they were too quick but it only took a year to eclipse the older cars under the new rules.

I will have to try and locate the magazine article where they put a Group C Commodore against a rally car down the 400m. The Commodre ran a low 12 and the rally car was in the 9s.

I'll start looking now

Edit: OK at present I will humbly eat my words. The quickest I found was a current EVO at 5.4 seconds. I cannot find anything on comparison tests other than round a complete track. So until I find some proof I will be wrong.
Edit II: With more searching I have found that the cars quicker than F1s were the Group B cars produced from 1982 - 1986 when they were banned. The Lancia Delta S4 could accelerate from 0 to 100 km/h in 2.3 seconds on a gravel road but I can't find a 0 - 200 time. This Lancia also did a lap of the Portugese F1 track and would have qualified sixth, just over a second behind Pole (Senna) despite it being about 90km/h down in top speed compared to Senna's F1.

So I admit I was wrong because I was referring to current (legal) rally cars. They are not quicker than F1s.

[greenfoam]

I'm so over supercars, they can take the wings and the rest of the car while they are there. It's just as dumb as NASCAR now . I can invent a better class of racing right now, you ready

Class A
Production cars $55,000-$80,000

Class B
Production cars $40,000-$55,000

Class C
Production cars under $40,000

Run anything you want so long as it's a large volume production car.

No limited run specials allowed. There cures all the problems

[immortality]

i hear ya, maybe go back to the rules of yesteryear, the 70's and 80's

[Ripcell]

can i ask where did u hear this. is there a link or something, because of u just 'herd' it then dont beleave it for shit cos there is so many rumours. some tosser tryed to tell me that lowndes was moving back to holden the other day ROFL

[bangers]

why don't they just turn it into nascar and be done with it. it seems to be heading that way anyway.

[nizmovk]

i agree, banger. the next thing i had heard was using a std platform, only with f**d or commy fronts on. It defeats the whole idea of brand racing...

[immortality]

maybe ifthey released the rear suspension to the manufactures setup rather than just the 9" trailing arm/4 link setup that they must run at the mo. it would cetainly make them quicker through the corners with independent rears

[VKNutt]

leave the frills on! A SC is supposed to be tough, without them, it'll be like watching grandads church goer with a couple of stickers... WTF???? Also, while I'm ranting... I agree totally that the regulations are stupid... Release the whole thing to the manufacturers and then maybe we can actually get some real Holden Vs Ford Vs ? racing!!! it is getting stale at the moment, I used to watch every race, check details and specs and whatnot, but to be honest, at the moment, I don't even know who won at Oran Park on the weekend... LETS GET SOME REAL RACING AND COMPETITION HAPPENING HERE!

PS: maybe if it wasn't so regulated, then Toyota may actually be more interested in entering such a competition

[1991_Vn2nV]

can i ask where did u hear this. is there a link or something, because of u just 'herd' it then dont beleave it for shit cos there is so many rumours. some tosser tryed to tell me that lowndes was moving back to holden the other day ROFL

Its in the latest V8 racing magazine or whatever its called. I read it in a few, but its on the front page of that one.

Working night shifts at a servo, I get around to reading all the magazines

[MBS206]

This will in theory make for better more interesting racing as it will allow for easier overtaking.... As at present a V8 Supercar struggles to overtake on a corner as when it leaves the slipstream from behind the car in front, it loses downforce and therefore grip, making it too hard to overtake during cornering....

Say what now? They LOOSE grip when getting out of a slip stream?
That's the biggest load of shit I've heard yet about wings/racing!
When you're in a slip stream, the car in front "punches" a hole through the air, and creates a negative vacuum behind it, which, is what creates a "slip stream" because you're not forcing your car to "punch" the air. Therefore, less force is required to gather the same amount of acceleration, as a car punching the air.
The issue you get, is you get little air flow over your car, compared to the one in front.
What does this mean? There is little air flowing over/under the car, to create a vacuum below the car to suck the car down. Hence, less grip when slip streaming.
Now, pull out of that slip stream, you grip levels sky rocket to exactly the same as what the person you were slipping behind has.

As for the 10newtons of force @ 200km/h. Thats the SECOND funniest thing I've heard abuot racing and wings.
The wings used on race cars, are a highly sophisticated wing design, they are NOT like that on a normal road going car. They actually provide HUGE amounts of downforce.
Why do you think, when a V8 supercar looses it's front splitter in the kitty litter etc, they loose so much front end grip?

[1991_Vn2nV]

Say what now? They LOOSE grip when getting out of a slip stream?
That's the biggest load of shit I've heard yet about wings/racing!
When you're in a slip stream, the car in front "punches" a hole through the air, and creates a negative vacuum behind it, which, is what creates a "slip stream" because you're not forcing your car to "punch" the air. Therefore, less force is required to gather the same amount of acceleration, as a car punching the air.
The issue you get, is you get little air flow over your car, compared to the one in front.
What does this mean? There is little air flowing over/under the car, to create a vacuum below the car to suck the car down. Hence, less grip when slip streaming.
Now, pull out of that slip stream, you grip levels sky rocket to exactly the same as what the person you were slipping behind has.

As for the 10newtons of force @ 200km/h. Thats the SECOND funniest thing I've heard abuot racing and wings.
The wings used on race cars, are a highly sophisticated wing design, they are NOT like that on a normal road going car. They actually provide HUGE amounts of downforce.
Why do you think, when a V8 supercar looses it's front splitter in the kitty litter etc, they loose so much front end grip?

Bah on Thursday I will write down exactly what it says in the magazine ok?

But still, why is it that cars dont lose (not LOOSE ) all that grip when they are right behind a car in a corner in the V8 supercars? Seeing as theoretically their grip should SKYROCKET if they got out of the slipstream?

[immortality]

i beleive slipstreaming only really works at high speeds plus you gotta almost be running bumper to bumper to get the best effect, more like nascar racing and you very really see V8SC that close in high speed sections, it's normally more like a car length apart except where one gets better drive outa the corner and has the speed advantage to overtake.

[YMY-88U]

id have to say to keep them on there, if you have ever been to bathurst and see the cars go down conrod and into the breaking area going around 290k's, you see the cars go all over the track under heavy breaking, and without the downforce that the rear wing is giving, they would more than likely fly straight of the track and into the wall... man i cant wait for bathurst again!!