Holden copping a pasting in the V8s

[Hunter SS]

What are Holden doing wrong? the days of old where the Commodore ruled the track has come to an end.

[Tas_HSV]

Sorry to say champ,but you missed the boat a long time ago......they havnt raced a holden commodore since the early 90s....

[one_and_only2004]

meh, as long as they keep it exciting by crashing cars i'll still watch.

[Pub247]

supercars are boring i fell asleep yesterday right at the start i saw them take off but ant remember them finishing 1st lap woke up 10minutes after it finished
Want to see real car racing and much more interesting and exicting tune into one hd at 4:30pm today

[VS Omega]

I'm sorry for saying it, but I completely hate and oppose the V8 Supercar format, and the cars which they race. Since when the hell have Holden or Ford sold a 5 litre V8 (which are nearly the same). Next thing you know it'll be a NASCAR clone with shells shaped a bit like the cars which they actually sell.

Shit I miss Group A, instead of banning all other manufacturers and making it a closed series why not try and improve on the quality of Australian cars? It makes Australians look like sore losers, just because we couldn't build a car to match the mighty GT-R.

These days the reality is that the Ford I6 Turbo's are better than their V8s, but we insist on keeping this relic series alive

EDIT Off topic: And just to think, the VN was set to feature the Nissan RB30/ET motors until Nissan put the price up (Buick nearly wasn't ready, which is why the series 1 was so rough). The RB30ET which was better than the VL V8... what kind of crazy world would we live in if they dropped the 5.0L all together or made a good enough deal to get the RB26DETT in some form of super Commodore.

[Tas_HSV]

I'm sorry for saying it, but I completely hate and oppose the V8 Supercar format, and the cars which they race. Since when the hell have Holden or Ford sold a 5 litre V8 (which are nearly the same). Next thing you know it'll be a NASCAR clone with shells shaped a bit like the cars which they actually sell.

Shit I miss Group A, instead of banning all other manufacturers and making it a closed series why not try and improve on the quality of Australian cars? It makes Australians look like sore losers, just because we couldn't build a car to match the mighty GT-R.

These days the reality is that the Ford I6 Turbo's are better than their V8s, but we insist on keeping this relic series alive

EDIT Off topic: And just to think, the VN was set to feature the Nissan RB30/ET motors until Nissan put the price up (Buick nearly wasn't ready, which is why the series 1 was so rough). The RB30ET which was better than the VL V8... what kind of crazy world would we live in if they dropped the 5.0L all together or made a good enough deal to get the RB26DETT in some form of super Commodore.

Agreed totally omega.....I was bought up on a diet of group C/group A....personally I havnt been interested at all since the early 90s.....
I watch bathurst every year just as a tradition now....

[vlv8vic]

Agreed totally omega.....I was bought up on a diet of group C/group A....personally I havnt been interested at all since the early 90s.....
I watch bathurst every year just as a tradition now....

X3 in agreeance with that. I liked it better when they handled more like our bog stock commodores and even prior to my time some of the old footage of buckets of water on the rotors to cool them off. bring back 'real cars' .


--moved to motorsport section.

[holden-4-life]

Sorry to say champ,but you missed the boat a long time ago......they havnt raced a holden commodore since the early 90s....

thats whats crap
its not a holden any more
they have had to slow all the holdens down now all the fords are in front and the ford ****s r getting cocky

i also only watch bathurst as a tradition
even though fords win that too now

[Tas_HSV]

thats whats crap
its not a holden any more
they have had to slow all the holdens down now all the fords are in front and the ford ****s r getting cocky

i also only watch bathurst as a tradition
even though fords win that too now

Not quite sure if you get it.....they couldnt slow the holdens down because holden dont race,the fords arent in front because the fords dont race either...which also means they cant be getting cocky because they do not exist......What we have is a nascar style scene..... purpose built racecars built to go around corners(not one corner like nascar)that have the basic(and I mean basic)sillhoette of the passenger cars they are "supposed" to resemble....

[minux]

People still watch v8 supertrains? Amazing, I suggest you get along to some of the production racing, brilliant stuff.

[Tas_HSV]

People still watch v8 supertrains? Amazing, I suggest you get along to some of the production racing, brilliant stuff.

Agreed minux,and some of the more grass roots style....the HQs,sports sedans etc......seen some of the best racing ive ever seen from the side of my local circuit....

[Hunter SS]

apologies for not posting this in the right section..... i have had a nasty headache for 3 days straight, and my brain doesn't work real well at the moment.

i don't watch it these days for the reasons some have stated. Not because the holdens win one in every 20 races these days.... but because of the whole format. There is little difference between the cars except for the skin over the top. They share the same suspension, the same engine internals, the same fuel management....... and the fact that when the Commdores were so dominant, the blue oval camp screamed about pulling out unless it was made more even, which they then punished the commodores with more weight. These days, i think they carry the same weight?? like i said, i don't really follow it all that much.... hence the reason i asked.... what are holden doing wrong? do they need better engineers? Do they need to spend more money?

Bring back production racing!! that was the best format!

[immortality]

blame operation BLUEprint........ the Blue Oval, you do the math.

i remember a few years back when HRT, Kmart and the HSV teams werebanned from testing because they worked together. this year Jim beam racing, team 888 vodafone and another team all built there cars together and yet that is fine. more double standards. i turned the race on but didn't really watch it.

the only satisfying thing in the whole race was seeing lowndes suffer

[88GreenVN]

The China F1 race killed the V8's as far as interesting racing. Some of the passing in the wet around the outside of turn 7 was simple awsome.

[Reaper]

EDIT Off topic: And just to think, the VN was set to feature the Nissan RB30/ET motors until Nissan put the price up (Buick nearly wasn't ready, which is why the series 1 was so rough). The RB30ET which was better than the VL V8... what kind of crazy world would we live in if they dropped the 5.0L all together or made a good enough deal to get the RB26DETT in some form of super Commodore.

Probably something for another thread entirely but the RB30 cost had more to do with the Aus$ being floated and subsequently devalued vs the US$ (and in turn Yen) than Nissan putting the price up per-say.

Reaper

[Reaper]

People still watch v8 supertrains? Amazing, I suggest you get along to some of the production racing, brilliant stuff.

I'll see your production and raise you a Historic Racers. Historic Sandown was the most enjoyable day at the races I have had in near 20 years!

Reaper

[elemeNtz]

Sorry for not reading the posts, If i recall correctly, 7 were discussing the FG Falcon's superior aerodynamics due to their shape. Prolly one of many reasons

[immortality]

Sorry for not reading the posts, If i recall correctly, 7 were discussing the FG Falcon's superior aerodynamics due to their shape. Prolly one of many reasons

i though the idea of operation blue(ovel)print was to even the cars so that one make doesn't have a advantage over the other.

was just watching V8supercar extra, murph touched on the fact that the wincup car was able to run faster yet use substancially less fuel then the other cars in the field?

[Reaper]

i though the idea of operation blue(ovel)print was to even the cars so that one make doesn't have a advantage over the other.

was just watching V8supercar extra, murph touched on the fact that the wincup car was able to run faster yet use substancially less fuel then the other cars in the field?

The problem is that as long as you are using two different designs of equipment, one is always going to be superior to the other. The only way you can achieve true parity is for everybody to be using the same equipment supplied by the same manufacturer.

I see it every weekend racing my boats and it happens everywhere machinery is involved in sport.

Reaper

[Hunter SS]

blame operation BLUEprint........ the Blue Oval, you do the math.

i remember a few years back when HRT, Kmart and the HSV teams werebanned from testing because they worked together. this year Jim beam racing, team 888 vodafone and another team all built there cars together and yet that is fine. more double standards. i turned the race on but didn't really watch it.

the only satisfying thing in the whole race was seeing lowndes suffer

sounds about right...... the Ford guys must have more push or they are smoking the right rope. I remember a few years back when the Commodore was wiping the track with the fords.... they penalised the holdens by making them take 6" off the underside of their front spoiler, screwed their aerodynamics up badly... all because the Fords threatened to pull out if they weren't more competitive. It's all politics....

[Hunter SS]

Sorry for not reading the posts, If i recall correctly, 7 were discussing the FG Falcon's superior aerodynamics due to their shape. Prolly one of many reasons

that doesn't hold a lot of water either..... take a look at the profile of both cars, they look like twins.

[eurekamad94]

cbf'd reading the whole thread so sorry if ive said something elready mentiond



there not car's there race car's you can make anything go fast if you chuck a shitload of money at it if i had it my way they would be racing stock ss commodores and stock xr8's
no 15 computer's in the pit bay no engineer. just a car a driver and 3 pit blokes to take care of the dirty stuff


i dont even watch bathurst now(well i watch the start and the end)


end of rant

[MikesCalais]

Im still into the v8's.. I used to be much much more, coz as you said we used to rule the track, but gone are those days

anyway... in my expert opinion. lol. we have no good drivers left, and the ones that were good. arent anymore.

As soon as skaife took over HRT he went wayyy down hill, i was suprised when he actually finished a race haha

Murphy always used to be up the top, now i cant remember the last time he had a podium finish.

The kelly broters... where are they these days!... and tander... hmmm

shame really

[Reaper]

Im still into the v8's.. I used to be much much more, coz as you said we used to rule the track, but gone are those days

anyway... in my expert opinion. lol. we have no good drivers left, and the ones that were good. arent anymore.

As soon as skaife took over HRT he went wayyy down hill, i was suprised when he actually finished a race haha

Skaife bought himself a shit sandwitch with that team. He went into fight with Walkinshaw with a sling shot when Tom turned up with a gattling gun. Was never going to work. Sadly the days of the team owner also driving are long gone if you want to be winning.

Murphy always used to be up the top, now i cant remember the last time he had a podium finish.

Not sure what happened to him. Things have been on a steady deciline since the end of the K-Mart days.

The kelly broters... where are they these days!... and tander... hmmm

The Kellys are a team to watch. Being a brand new outfit i'd be suprised to see much out of them this year. They will have huge expectations on their shoulders for next season though.

cbf'd reading the whole thread so sorry if ive said something elready mentiond

there not car's there race car's you can make anything go fast if you chuck a shitload of money at it if i had it my way they would be racing stock ss commodores and stock xr8's
no 15 computer's in the pit bay no engineer. just a car a driver and 3 pit blokes to take care of the dirty stuff

Sounds good. Pitty it doesn't work. If you went back to racing stock standard cars there would be no Ford or GM involvement. The racing would be boring as one product would dominate the other winning 75% of the races. The only way 2nd best would get a look in would be due to an accident or mechanical failure (ie luck).

The old Group A days were similar to this and racing was much the poorer for it. First it was the Sierra's in the late 80's then followed by Nissan. Unless you were on board the flavor of the month then forget about any sort of result. Brock's '87 victory was his best and very much fitted the "aussie battler" and "under dog" status. Unfortunately it was also very much a fluke. Texaco were streets ahead of the rest of the field that day. If they had actually followed the rules they still would have won it at a canter....

Reaper

[immortality]

The problem is that as long as you are using two different designs of equipment, one is always going to be superior to the other. The only way you can achieve true parity is for everybody to be using the same equipment supplied by the same manufacturer.

I see it every weekend racing my boats and it happens everywhere machinery is involved in sport.

Reaper

i agree, however the lesser of the two cars at the moment is the make that has been altered (penalised) the most by operation blue(oval)print. i wouldn't be pissed off if the Holden was loosing because the FG is the better car, but it's not, it's loosing because of politics. the VE built into a racecar with original wheel base/track and weight distribution and without the other penalties bestowed upon it by AVESCO would beat the FG.

at the end of the day, they will loose spectators. Ford has already pulled some sponsorship. a day may come when Holden has had enough and does the same.

it's a real shame we have such poor motorsport coverage here in NZ so there isn't much to watch. everything has delayed coverage with means you generally know the result before you get to see the racing 2-3weeks later may have to go back to watching drag racing