More to come from LS3

[Sphinx]

HSV needs a new gearbox and final drive to get the best from its new V8


HSV's new LS3 V8 is a new gearbox away from delivering its best. Indeed, the hot Holden brigade has purposely detuned its new V8 engine until it can substitute its existing T56 manual gearbox for a new stronger unit.
The main obstacle to more extensive changes and new model identification on the latest round of HSV updates is that the company is not ready to announce its version of Tremec's latest TR6060 manual transmission. Modifications to the final drive of the W427, which already features the new gearbox, include a high strength, shot-peened differential. This points to the other Achilles' heel of the current HSV drivetrain that also needs to be addressed (on both manual and automatic models).
The same LS3 engine that has just been fitted to the latest HSV range (see our launch review soon) usually delivers well over 320kW and close to 580Nm. Output has been pulled back to 317kW/550Nm in the latest HSVs because the full output specs would be outside the prudent limits for the existing drivetrain.
It also explains why FPV and Ford, which have recently upgraded their final drives and already fitted the new TR6060 gearbox to their FG ranges, have been able to boost F6 torque to 565Nm. Because the F6 torque 'peak' is not just a momentary blip on the graph when it is sustained from 1950-5200rpm, the upgrades have been quite significant.
Not only could HSV match and exceed the F6's figures without changing a single piece of hardware under the bonnet, it could do it right now, if it wasn't for the existing manual gearbox and final drive. And because these upgrades will require other hardware changes (including clutch, shift mechanism and tailshaft), HSV has nobbled its new engine until these changes are ready to roll out.
Further LS3 upgrades will be open to HSV with relatively low levels of investment once the drivetrain issues have been addressed.
It would make little sense to release more new models with the old gearbox and final drive. With the HSV Tourer and manual Senator Signature due in showrooms no later than October this year, this points to HSV's upgrade timetable.
Expect the changes outlined above, and output increases, to apply to all HSV models from that time.

[CSP]

The only limit is the current A6. The new M6 is easily able to handle it.

[1991_Vn2nV]

The only limit is the current A6. The new M6 is easily able to handle it.

They use the A6 in the LS3 corvettes so im not sure how that works.

The current M6 is not that capable, which is why they are upgrading to the T6060 manual in August and Holden to follow suit.

[sixshooter]

I wish I never read this... where did this info come from ???

Dodge have used the t56 behind their Viper engines with a few mods and drag races have run over 1000 hp through them...

How about a 8 sec Camaro that pulls wheelies with a t56 ?

YouTube - 8.93 Six Speeds Inc. 1st LS1 M6 T56 in the 8's

Need I say any more ?

[1991_Vn2nV]

I wish I never read this... where did this info come from ???

Dodge have used the t56 behind their Viper engines with a few mods and drag races have run over 1000 hp through them...

How about a 8 sec Camaro that pulls wheelies with a t56 ?

YouTube - 8.93 Six Speeds Inc. 1st LS1 M6 T56 in the 8's

Need I say any more ?

Umm Dodge use an upgraded T56... Torque reccomendations for GM models and Dodge are as follows mate:

600 ft·lbf torque capacity (Dodge)
385 ft·lbf (522 N·m) (GM MM6)
400 ft·lbf (542 N·m) (GM M12)

The dodge version of the T56 has a much higher torque capacity than the GM models.

[sixshooter]

So yeah why not run those Dodge t56 mods ?

That Camaro is running a LS based engine above...

I don't think the gearbox swap has anything to do with weakness of the box as shown above it is more than capable... IMO I think the swap is because the newer box will be a bit slicker shifting... I've read some journo's reporting the t56 a bit agricultural and heavy shifting.

[1991_Vn2nV]

So yeah why not run those Dodge t56 mods ?

That Camaro is running a LS based engine above...

I don't think the gearbox swap has anything to do with weakness of the box as shown above it is more than capable... IMO I think the swap is because the newer box will be a bit slicker shifting... I've read some journo's reporting the t56 a bit agricultural and heavy shifting.

It does not matter what it is capable of, i've seen 4 speed auto's in 500+rwkw cars, the problem is what it is reccomended at.

The point is, car manufacturers are not going to exceed Tremecs reccomended torque capacities for those transmissions.

The T6060 is an evolution of the T56, its a better box all round and is rated the same as the Dodge version at 600 ft·lbf (810 N·m) of torque. So why not upgrade? Especially when Ford are already using it, Holden cop enough flack for their **** auto's, they dont need Ford to have a superior manual also.

The dodge box might be exclusive for dodge, as might be the MM12 and MM10 and MM6 boxes used by GM.

[greenfoam]

Because the old T56 is a clunker and the new one is better, the Weakness with the HSV's are the Axels and the tailshaft, If I had a dollar for evertime I've seen a LSx bust an axel I'd have.... well about 5 bucks. lol but still that is the weak point. Have also seen a cammed LS1 bust the T56 but only one

[1991_Vn2nV]

Because the old T56 is a clunker and the new one is better, the Weakness with the HSV's are the Axels and the tailshaft, If I had a dollar for evertime I've seen a LSx bust an axel I'd have.... well about 5 bucks. lol but still that is the weak point. Have also seen a cammed LS1 bust the T56 but only one

Is that including VE HSV's?

[greenfoam]

No but I've only seen one VE race and it's not making as much power as the early cars just yet. Are the axels much different?

[1991_Vn2nV]

They run a different diff, a ZF diff so I assume so.

[greenfoam]

I see. I figured the diff was still the 8 inch BW. Well maybe it's all good now

[1991_Vn2nV]

To find the 'driveline constraints' in the current HSV's, I think you just need to look at the W427...Its only driveline differences (other than engine) are as follows:

1.) T6060 Manual Transmission (which will be solved come August when the rest of the range gets the T6060)
2.) The W427 uses the same model diff, but they utilise 'unique build processes' which I think involves in part double shot peening. So the diff may be the other constraint, but it should be using the same axles, just differently built centre.