Banned
Holden: Hints of Torana
From: Holden hints again at Torana future - drive.com.au
Holden hints again at Torana future
Ian Porter, The Age, June 10, 2008
Four years after revealing the Torana concept car, Holden is again suggesting it is looking at building a smaller car alongside the Commodore.
Holden has given the strongest indication yet that it will start producing a smaller car locally.
Long touted as a new Torana, the car is expected to be a size down from the Commodore and could use a smaller version of the V6 engine made at Fishermans Bend.
Holden also plans to step up the pressure in the fuel economy war, where the Commodore has been lagging the Toyota Aurion and the new Ford Falcon.
Holden boss Mark Reuss said on Friday a range of engine technologies was working its way through the development system towards the Commodore production line.
While stressing that the Commodore was still Australia's best-selling car, Mr Reuss suggested Holden was assessing a second model.
"We have a lot of opportunities to do other different product offerings if we choose to do that in Australia," he said.
"We have to be competitive here to do it. We are. Those discussions are very much part of our product planning."
As long ago as 2004, the company showed a concept car, billed as the new Torana, at the Melbourne Motor Show. Based on a cut-down Commodore platform, it was a medium-sized hatchback that promised to be smaller and lighter than a Commodore.
Mr Reuss also said some of the more advanced engine technology Holden was already making for overseas customers at its V6 engine plant was also making its way towards the Commodore.
Holden already makes V6 engines with direct injection and a smaller, turbocharged version of the V6, but these versions are for export only at the moment, to companies including Saab and Alfa Romeo.
Mr Reuss said that in "three to four years" Commodore buyers could expect cars powered by LPG (liquefied petroleum gas) and cars that would run on ethanol.
A senior executive from Holden's parent company General Motors recently revealed that a petrol-electric Commodore hybrid was set for 2010.
He said these would be the first steps in a longer program based on a $40 million expansion and technology investment made at Fishermans Bend in the last year or so.
Asked why there are no direct injection or turbocharged Commodores now, director of manufacturing Rod Keane said it would take some time.
"We have looked at the rollout of technology appropriate to the marketplace and all of those things fit on a time line," he said.
"Obviously, we will continue to flow them through our markets, domestic and exports, as we go forward."
Mr Reuss said Holden was not convinced about diesel technology. "I'm not sure diesel is flavour of the month - if you look at diesel prices, they are at the very least unstable and variable," he said, referring to diesel prices that have been consistently higher than petrol prices.
"Diesel has a place in every market ... but diesel is not a silver bullet for fuel economy and cost," he said, citing studies.
"You find that LPG and other technologies are equal to, or better, at the current prices of these alternative fuels," he said.
"And if you want to look to the future with ethanol and the unleveraging of foreign oil in this country, those technologies become much more compelling in this market than diesel does."
Banned
From: Holden boss gives biggest indication yet of new Aussie-built small car | Industry | Carcentral.com.au
Holden boss gives biggest indication yet of new Aussie-built small car
Written by Nelson Ireson
Tuesday, 10 June 2008
The move by Holden to cease production of its aging ‘Family II’ four-cylinder engine and focus on its new globally-viable HF V6 engine is seen as the biggest indication that the 3.6L engine could be used in more applications including a new Aussie-built small car.
At the announcement of the closure of the Family II engine plant on Friday, Holden chairman and managing director Mark Reuss said, “going forward, we will be focusing our business efforts on developing new domestic and export opportunities around our advanced global V6 engine plant, particularly in the areas of alternative fuels and fuel-saving technologies.”
Holden is also planning to step up the pressure in the fuel economy war, where the Commodore has been lagging against its rivals like the Ford Falcon and Toyota Aurion/Camry. Ford has confirmed that a diesel Falcon and Territory are in the works, as well as local production of the next-generation Focus small car in 2011, while Toyota today announced that production of Australia’s first hybrid model, a petrol-electric Camry, will commence in early 2010.
Combining smaller, more efficient V6 engines with a smaller and lighter car could yield big benefits for fuel efficiency and could be just what Holden needs to keep pace with its rivals in the fuel economy stakes.
New car won't be a Torana
The original concept shown at the Australian International Motor Show in 2004, called the Torana TT36, was a sleek five-door hatchback based on a pared-down Commodore platform. However, the Torana concept was designed to showcase Holden’s talent and ability to build a new car in a short period of time and was never meant to represent a future production model.
While the application in the Torana concept is an extreme example of the turbocharging trend taking hold of the global automobile market, it also shows that Holden's V6 is a suitable candidate for forced induction. Adding power through forced induction could enable Holden to maintain performance levels similar to today's V8 engines while greatly improving fuel economy.
Holden’s new small car would likely be based on a shortened Commodore platform, which would allow both cars to built off the same production line and further improve economies of scale.
Reallocating Family II production to Global V6 output
There is also hope at Holden that the production of new V6-based projects could help defray some of the job losses at the Fisherman’s Bend plant.
“We have exciting plans for our global V6 plant and one of our aims will be to grow this part of our business to absorb some of those who might be impacted by this decision,” said Holden’s Executive Director of Manufacturing, Rod Keane.
Production plans for a smaller car are yet to be unannounced, but the end of four-cylinder production at the Melbourne facility isn’t scheduled until the end of 2009. Given the company’s stated desire to move resources away from Family II production and towards global V6 and smaller car production, it’s unlikely the new project will start much in advance of the end of the old one.
Alternative fuels also on the table
Reuss has also spoken of liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) and ethanol-powered cars within three to four years. The alternative fuels will first appear in Commodores, with the potential to spread throughout the lineup from there.
Holden has been planning a large-scale implementation of new technology in its cars and engines since it began a $40 million upgrade to its Fisherman’s Bend facility a year ago. These new developments are the first fruits of that development.
One fuel that may not be in the cards for Holden is diesel. The high initial price of diesel engines offsets any potential savings in fuel prices thanks to the fuel’s superior economy, according to Reuss. Figures show LPG and similar fuels can offer more value for money at current prices.
Fuel economy battle soon to heat up
Ford’s announcement of a year ago that it would halt production of the long-lived straight-six built at the company’s Geelong plant and replace it with an imported V6 by 2010 puts it on a similar timeline to Holden. Local production of the Focus is due to start around the same time, putting even more pressure on Holden to compete in the fierce small car market.
Its imported Astra, the next generation of which has recently been spotted testing in Europe, is also essential to Holden's plans as it will share the burden of helping the company meet its fuel economy goals.
Donating Member
Although most of that was a waste of reading...and again should not have been posted in the news/updates section where only mods and admin are meant to make threads... there was one important hint in those two articles:
No diesel powered commodore!
Banned
According to you.Originally Posted by 1991_Vn2nV
Then why do I have access to post here?
Good! There are much better alternatives than diesel.No diesel powered commodore!
had no choice
Unless another mod/admin says otherwise, I will allow this to stay...but my choice can easily be overwritten.
Site Administrator
News is news
More than happy to have it stay and despite what some say I found most of it interesting.
Great work CSP
If they build a Torry with a 6 speed box and an LS3 I'll buy one.
If they drop a force fed 6 or 4 in it I won't buy one!
Donating Member
If Holden had said it all, then sure it would be interesting. Its just a reporter hypothesising about what may happen. For all we know, Holden might just start building something like the Epica here, it says nothing about a V8 or forced induction V6, hell it doesnt even say RWD. If it wasn't a V8 or FI V6 RWD, then it won't be a Torana.
I said that because of the title of the section:
News/Updates All updates and latest news about the forum and site in general will end up in here. Only Admins and Mods may start threads.
But I guess Darren doesn't mind so my mistake. I just dislike it as it used to be important and OFFICIAL information, now between you and Sphinx its just heresay and some (such as your 'Camaro' thread) are just misleading and false information. Before too long everyone will be posting threads in here and it will be another General or Pub section where threads like this would be better suited. Just my opinion.
Banned
Holden can call whatever new model they want a Torana. That's the advantage of them being the manufacturer and you being, well, nobody.
And you're entitled you your opinion of course. Even when you're wrong. Stuff that is news worthy should be here. I didn't see the fine print after News/Updates so I guess I technically am wrong about what gets posted here. However a lot of people only skim over the Pub and General forums. Somewhere that has actual (industry related) News rather than just chatter would be good. I thought that's what this forum was for. Now that I know it's only meant for site news, I won't post here any more.
Tells it like it is.
I'd put money that you are wrong on that one.Although most of that was a waste of reading...and again should not have been posted in the news/updates section where only mods and admin are meant to make threads... there was one important hint in those two articles:
No diesel powered commodore!
Reaper
i know for sure the new torana is coming out!
i work for volkswagen, and we did a test on a new undercover car thats coming out, on lindsey fox's testing mul eground out past torquay.
when we went in , they took all our phones and camera's.
although we did sneak a peak at what look to be the torana, looks different to the pink prototype.
security quickly covered it and moved us away, but looked horn!!
Banned
It wasn't the Torana. Most likely the Buick that was spied testing in Australia recently and will be the replacement for the ailing Epica.
Nil Bastardo Carborundum
Have I missed something here? You work for Volkswagen and you were at the testing ground testing a new undercover car that's coming out, and it looked like the Torana?
Does that mean that your secret car(which I assume was a VW) was there at the same time as another secret car (Torana or whatever?)
Tells it like it is.
I never knew VW was a GM subsidiary. Unless they are I would be ***VERY*** surprised if they allow any competitor anywhere near it.
Reaper
**** that!!!. If they want to bring back the torana they need to use similar style shapes to the old toranas not crappy new commodore bubble shapes. And why ruin them with a crappy N/A V6 auto????? Forced induction 6 or V8 manual is the only way!
If they want to make it a smaller version of a commodore it should not be called a Torana.
This is what a torana should look like
A muscle car not no ****ty ass bubble.
1988 VL Berlina turbo 5 speed
http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/...ml#post1446411
1987 VL SL turbo 5 speed ~STOLEN~
http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/...ed-manual.html
Banned
Please tell us which Commodore(s) look like bubbles.
Basically everything after VLBut the VE is a big bubble
1988 VL Berlina turbo 5 speed
http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/...ml#post1446411
1987 VL SL turbo 5 speed ~STOLEN~
http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/...ed-manual.html
Banned
Get a clue!Basically everything after VL
kayyyyyyyy
1988 VL Berlina turbo 5 speed
http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/...ml#post1446411
1987 VL SL turbo 5 speed ~STOLEN~
http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/...ed-manual.html
Why do some forget that the Torana also came in a 4 cylinder?! It was a versatile car which came in lots of different configurations, but everyone seems to block out the 202/186 and only focus on the super SL/R's and A9X's, hell the first one came with a 1.2L 42kw 4 cylinder..
Donating Member
Also in 1968-69:
Torana bodies were made in Australia.
So could we see the Torana in 2008 or 2009?
Donating Member
There's nothing like a good belly laughBasically everything after VL
I've got a bubble car and thank goodness a VL
From now on I reckon we should cal all VE's Big Bubble's
Anway, stay bubbly you guys
VT-Best Holden shape!
I dunno how many of you guys were around on the VN launch but everyone in the country called it a bubble car, freak, ugly, space ship... etc. The only good thing about it was that for the time is was absurdly fast. Times certainly change because now VN looks quite good now and much more respectable as a design than the VE if you park them both together
If you say so.... I know which one I'd rather own.
I'm surprised nobody seems to have commented on the Australian-designed Camero that was announced the other day...maybe that's your Torana.
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